Issue with Dry-Hopping in-keg

[Brewpiper718]

I had a really good Rye IPA that had been aging about a month, one week of which was dry hopping. It was a single-hop batch using only Citra.

Before kegging it was just what I was aiming for: crisp, all grapefruit and resin.

Then I kegged it with another oz of Citra, just for that extra punch. After two days of force carbonating at around 35 degrees, I tasted a sample, and it's just off.

It's grassy, and has a tart finish, like a pomegranate that's gone bad.

Any thoughts? The only changes were the move to the keg (scrupulously sanitized and cleaned as always) and the fresh addition of 1oz Citra hops. Could it just be a bad bag of hops? Does dry hopping at low temperatures give off-flavors?

Any feedback would be helpful -- this was a beer I would have been very proud to bring to a brew club meeting, but now I barely want to drink it myself.

 

[Golddiggie]

I've not had any issues with adding whole hops (in a nylon bag) to kegs as they go into the brew fridge. I also use the two week 'set and forget' carbonating method and don't pull any pints until it' been the two weeks (or damned close to it).

Did you use whole or pellet hops? In a nylon bag, or just dumped into the keg?

I'm not using citra hops (I use UK hops) so I'm not sure what that would get you. I have added dry hops to a keg that was dry hopped before being kegged and really enjoyed the results. This was with EKG though.

I'd give it the rest of the time needed to carbonate fully, and mellow a bit (it will happen slowly in the keg at temp) and try it again (after ~2 weeks chilled and on the gas)...

Just out of curiosity, what carbonating method are you using? If rapid force carbonating, give it time to better equalize. If not, then give it time to carbonate.

 

[Brewpiper718]

I did whole hops, fine mesh bag, and racked right on to them.

As far as force carbonating, I usually set it to 8-10 PSI and leave it for a week or two, but I had a club meeting and wanted to have it ready, so I did the 20psi, shake gently every few hours which, while not optimal, has worked for me in the past.

The carbonation, sadly, turned out better than the beer, which was fantastic before I dry hopped it in the keg.

I'm wondering if it was simply a bad bag of hops, but it was HopUnion, who I trust, so I simply don't know.

 

[Golddiggie]

How did the hops smell before you used them?? Did they seem right??

I'd give it another week, or two, and see how it is. It might just be more concentrated right now, if the hops are at the bottom of the keg... I usually don't weight my hop bag down, letting it float free. Not sure if that really matters, or not...

Was this just a 1oz bag of hops or a larger bag? I just checked the couple of 1oz packets of whole hops I have from HopUnion (in my freezer)... No date/harvest year info on them. Makes me wonder if you got a pouch that was from a previous harvest. Or it could have been stored incorrectly where you got it long enough to cause the issue.

 

[Yooper]

I I had a club meeting and wanted to have it ready, so I did the 20psi, shake gently every few hours which, while not optimal, has worked for me in the past.

Unfortunately, while the carb level seems right it sounds like you've got a "carbonic acid bite" from quick carbing.

Carbonic acid is tart and biting, which could very well be what you're tasting.

 

[Golddiggie]

Unfortunately, while the carb level seems right it sounds like you've got a "carbonic acid bite" from quick carbing.

Carbonic acid is tart and biting, which could very well be what you're tasting.

So it could also be over-carbonated? I've not used the rapid forced method yet. I've even backed off from what Bobby_M posted (the sticky thread) where you use higher pressure for 24-48 hours. I'm finding that just letting it go 2 weeks at serving pressure, and temperature, produces the most reliable results.

I'm also checking the keg pressure for reserve kegs before I put them into the brew fridge. I've had a few that were higher than I wanted them to be at before going into the fridge. So I vented them until they were in range (overnight usually) and then put them into the brew fridge. Carbonated within the normal time frame, and to what I would expect at temperature and pressure level.

 

[Yooper]

So it could also be over-carbonated? I've not used the rapid forced method yet. I've even backed off from what Bobby_M posted (the sticky thread) where you use higher pressure for 24-48 hours. I'm finding that just letting it go 2 weeks at serving pressure, and temperature, produces the most reliable results.

I'm also checking the keg pressure for reserve kegs before I put them into the brew fridge. I've had a few that were higher than I wanted them to be at before going into the fridge. So I vented them until they were in range (overnight usually) and then put them into the brew fridge. Carbonated within the normal time frame, and to what I would expect at temperature and pressure level.

This sounds crazy, but no, not overcarbonated. It's just a fresh carbonation has this "bite" to it that is sort of tart and tangy. I can't really explain it, but it seems to mellow fairly quickly and then goes into the carbonation we all know and love. But sometimes a quickly carbed beer will have that carbonic acid "bite" to it for the first few days. If you've never experienced it, it's hard to understand. But once you taste it, you'll say, "Aha! THAT'S what carbonic acid tastes like!"

The oddest thing is that I don't get it all the time, even using the burst carb (36 hours at 30 psi then to 12 psi) method. Just sometimes. And not all that often- but I have tasted it in shaken quick carbed kegs as well as other quick methods. You'd swear the beer had extract twang or was lacto/sour. Then, in 24 hours, it gets better. And in 48 hours is fine. It's the darnest thing.

 

[Golddiggie]

Actually, that doesn't sound too crazy (all things considered )... I've probably not run into it since I'm using the two week time frame. I have a keg that's been on the CO2 feed for 11 days now. I'm fighting myself to give it at least another couple of days before I start pulling pints. It's another keg off of my second batch of MO SMaSH... This keg doesn't have any whole hops added to it. I wanted to see how it would differ from the keg with the whole hops added. I have one keg left in reserve that I'll decide what to do with later.

 

[Brewpiper718]

This sounds crazy, but no, not overcarbonated. It's just a fresh carbonation has this "bite" to it that is sort of tart and tangy. I can't really explain it, but it seems to mellow fairly quickly and then goes into the carbonation we all know and love. But sometimes a quickly carbed beer will have that carbonic acid "bite" to it for the first few days. If you've never experienced it, it's hard to understand. But once you taste it, you'll say, "Aha! THAT'S what carbonic acid tastes like!"

The oddest thing is that I don't get it all the time, even using the burst carb (36 hours at 30 psi then to 12 psi) method. Just sometimes. And not all that often- but I have tasted it in shaken quick carbed kegs as well as other quick methods. You'd swear the beer had extract twang or was lacto/sour. Then, in 24 hours, it gets better. And in 48 hours is fine. It's the darnest thing.

Yooper, thanks! You had it exactly right, I think. I was worried about my sanitation, or something, because it really did have that lacto/sourness about it that made me instinctively think that the beer was off. I vented the keg and left it in the fridge with no gas hookup, just capped, which (in my old pin-lock) doesn't create a complete seal, and lets the C02 out.

And, wouldn't you know, the beer is almost back to normal now. It's great and thanks for the advice.

I've force carbonated several kegs with no negative results, other than occasionally bad head retention, but I guess sometimes it just happens! Glad I have one more feather in my hat, so to speak, and it's low and slow for me from now on. Even for a special occasion, I'd rather bring no beer than bad beer.

Cheers!

 

[Golddiggie]

BTW, I'm having a pint of the second keg, from the second brewing, of my MO SMaSH tonight... This one I didn't dry hop at all... Damn it's great... It's been 12 days since it got put onto CO2 (I've been chilling the kegs for a day before adding the CO2 feed to them lately). Carbonation is almost 100% there, lasting for the entire pint. Less excess head compared with the dry hopped keg though. Go figure. Enjoying this keg more than the first keg in fact.

 

[BrewThruYou]

I had this same issue. Every thread says that dryhopping with leaf in the keg is totally fine, no infection risk. But my beer turned from very good into somewhat sour/tart in a few weeks. It actually scored a 41 in a comp and then received a 17 two months later.

I'm sticking to dryhopping in secondary now with pellets...I'm not really trusting what is on the leaves.

 

[beerloin]

Just a technique I use for dry hopping: I tie a piece of dental floss to the bag that I drop in the keg - and I tie the other end to the gas/liquid out post and seal like normal. I let it hang a few inches down into the keg. This dry hops it for a few weeks until the liquid drops below the now suspended bag! I have found that if you don't do this, the hops start to produce a grassy flavor the longer they sit in the keg.