Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?

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Slight diversion, but first a quick update on my latest attempt. I pitched the T-58/WB-06 with first dry hop at end of day 2, and the results were among my worst with the trio. Mostly it's boring, with little to no fruity esters happening, and I actually got a little hop burn for the first time. I imagine this is the worst of all worlds, a plain S-04 IPA that's been dried out further by 06 but with no other unique redeeming factors.

But here's what I really want to consult the group about--has anyone used The Yeast Bay's "Metschnikowia Reukaufii" wild yeast isolate to ramp up biotransformation of glycosides?? After reading a little more about the concept, I would not be shocked if Nate is using something like this or commercial glucosidase enzymes. His beers simply have way more clean fruity esters than any other commercial IPA or any of my own attempts with the trio. There's a secret NOS button somewhere.

I see some familiar faces among this thread, along with The Yeast Bay owner (@Biobrewer). Any updates or insights?

Relevant exchange starting at post 89:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/rare-yeast-and-im-getting-ahold-of-some.538121/page-3
 
Has anyone tried using safale S-33? It seems to be closely related to an english strain.

It's a very close relative of Windsor, and a cousin of T-58. I've certainly seen people using either it or Windsor on the main NEIPA thread - it's English, more characterful than some yeast, it'll be fine.
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned before but the University of Wisconsin sequenced close to 200 strains of brewing yeasts and published their results. S-04, T-58 and WB-06 are in there. Study

Now we just need access to a sequencer.
 
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Not sure if this has been mentioned before but the University of Wisconsin sequenced close to 200 strains of brewing yeasts and published their results. S-04, T-58 and WB-06 are in there. Study

Now we just need access to a sequencer.

Looks like this group:
https://y1000plus.wei.wisc.edu/

Hopefully this group is completing a new publication with the complete set. You can find a 2016 paper with 86 genomes analyzed here:
https://www.g3journal.org/content/6/12/3927.long
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned before but the University of Wisconsin sequenced close to 200 strains of brewing yeasts and published their results. S-04, T-58 and WB-06 are in there. Study

Now we just need access to a sequencer.

The Hittinger stuff has been discussed in more detail on another thread.

But we've had sequences of S-04, T-58 and WB-06 for 12-18 months already, that's not been the issue, just having access to the separate strains (which may have changed at some point since this thread started) and a basic molecular biology lab. PCR is fine for basic screening, initially you're just looking to screen colonies out of the beer to make sure that you have ones that are genetically distinct. Then you can either build a library of PCR fragments and match your sample PCRs against it for cents per sample, or do short-run sequencing for a few dollars per sample (that's for materials, but add in labour and capex if need be). But at the moment we don't have people who have both lab access and strain access.
 
It doesn’t immediately shut down all other yeast activity immediately though does it? Especially if a tiny fraction. I guess I’m asking if anyone has tested its killer nature firsthand? Are there any biotransformative properties with that yeast? Could the blend of four be pitched together with very minor fractions of the three?
 
The others don't last long if there's a reasonable amount of killer around. But I still don't understand your logic for doing it in the first place other than "let's throw random yeasts in"?
 
... But I still don't understand your logic for doing it in the first place other than "let's throw random yeasts in"?

It’s not random if it’s one of four identified in the TH sample! Sure, that would seem highly unlikely. Just thinking through all possibilities for how and when those four strains got into the beer.
 
It’s not random if it’s one of four identified in the TH sample! Sure, that would seem highly unlikely. Just thinking through all possibilities for how and when those four strains got into the beer.
Didn’t the latest testing by famous last words only identify three strains? Not sure if he found a fourth like CBC or F2.
 
Had the pleasure to drink a few tree house beers. Imho, they definitely have a wheat beer ester to them.
 
Just got some Tree House. Had an In Perpetuity tonight. Has Citra and Nelson in it. Was really looking forward to this beer but all I get is the yeast esters. Granted it was three weeks old. Feel like I couldn’t really pick out the Citra and Nelson in it. Had that signature juicy fruit bubble gum aroma and flavor. Honestly didn’t blow me away but the mouthfeel, carbonation and balance in bitterness were perfect.

I poured a homebrew of mine afterwards and it popped! But it’s with US05, Mosaic, Citra and Columbus so it’s going to be a lot different, especially because of the yeast.

Have Green, Bright, Bright w/ Citra, Hurricane and Ggreenn still to try in the fridge.
 
Just got some Tree House. Had an In Perpetuity tonight. Has Citra and Nelson in it. Was really looking forward to this beer but all I get is the yeast esters. Granted it was three weeks old. Feel like I couldn’t really pick out the Citra and Nelson in it. Had that signature juicy fruit bubble gum aroma and flavor. Honestly didn’t blow me away but the mouthfeel, carbonation and balance in bitterness were perfect.

I poured a homebrew of mine afterwards and it popped! But it’s with US05, Mosaic, Citra and Columbus so it’s going to be a lot different, especially because of the yeast.

Have Green, Bright, Bright w/ Citra, Hurricane and Ggreenn still to try in the fridge.
In Perpetuity isn’t one of their better examples. In terms of what you have, the Bright beers are a different style, and I personally thought the Triple G was a little underwhelming. Maybe it needs some time to come together in the can. Current batch of Green is the best I’ve had in awhile. I didn’t grab any Hurricane so I can’t comment on that.
 
IMO all their hoppy stuff tastes so similar: slight phenolics, slight bitterness (like yeast bite), hardly any true hop character. The exceptions are Julius and Bright. Julius has some malt depth (touch of cara?) that carries the Diastaticus harshness in a more pleasing way. Bright is Chico or US-05 so very different.

Recent Green and Very Green were just...meh. Galaxy? Really? Where? Very Green just had more astringent finish.
 
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IMO all their hoppy stuff tastes so similar: slight phenolics, slight bitterness (like yeast bite), hardly any true hop character. The exceptions are Julius and Bright. Julius has some malt depth (touch of cara?) that carries the Diastaticus harshness in a more pleasing way. Bright is Chico or US-05 so very different.

Recent Green and Very Green were just...meh. Galaxy? Really? Where? Very Green just had more astringent finish.

Completely agree as I’m starting to go through these beers. My palate can’t distinguish any other flavors other than the yeast. Just had Green tonight which I used to love and it’s just juicy fruit bubble gum to me. Not a bad thing as some want and are looking for that in their beer but I want some noticeable hop flavor too. Haven’t hit the Brights yet but I’m looking forward to those as they’ll be so different.
 
Hey everyone, I haven't kept up with this thread lately. But what sort of attenuation is everyone getting with the S04/T58/WB06 (92%/5%/3%) blend? I've used it once before, and got 77% attenuation. I am now using it again, and just for the hell of it, I'm following the Trinity Brews TH Julius "clone" https://trinitybrewers.com/brews/ipa/julius-clone-treehouse-brewing-ipa/.

Here's the kicker: his recipe doesn't do an early high krausen DH, only a late dry hop, but with a few points of fermentation remaining in order to scrub out any O2 introduced during dry hopping. This goes against my normal NEIPA process of an early dry hop in the fermenter, and then doing a closed transfer to a keg with the second dry hop. I'm currently on Day 4 (brewed/pitched Saturday), 1.066 OG. I pitched around 82 degrees, activity kicked off in a few hours, then I dropped the temp to 64 on Day 2 and it's been sitting at 64. Activity has all but died down. I checked gravity this morning for the hell of it, and I'm at 1.020 (69% attenuation). The Trinity Brews schedule has the lone dry hop going in on Day 8 with a temp bump to 70.

My worry is, if I wait until Day 8 to DH, fermentation will be totally done and any O2 introduced won't get scrubbed out by fermentation. My other option is to go ahead and bump the temp to 70 today to liven up fermentation and dry hop now. Thoughts?
 
Hey everyone, I haven't kept up with this thread lately. But what sort of attenuation is everyone getting with the S04/T58/WB06 (92%/5%/3%) blend? I've used it once before, and got 77% attenuation. I am now using it again, and just for the hell of it, I'm following the Trinity Brews TH Julius "clone" https://trinitybrewers.com/brews/ipa/julius-clone-treehouse-brewing-ipa/.

Here's the kicker: his recipe doesn't do an early high krausen DH, only a late dry hop, but with a few points of fermentation remaining in order to scrub out any O2 introduced during dry hopping. This goes against my normal NEIPA process of an early dry hop in the fermenter, and then doing a closed transfer to a keg with the second dry hop. I'm currently on Day 4 (brewed/pitched Saturday), 1.066 OG. I pitched around 82 degrees, activity kicked off in a few hours, then I dropped the temp to 64 on Day 2 and it's been sitting at 64. Activity has all but died down. I checked gravity this morning for the hell of it, and I'm at 1.020 (69% attenuation). The Trinity Brews schedule has the lone dry hop going in on Day 8 with a temp bump to 70.

My worry is, if I wait until Day 8 to DH, fermentation will be totally done and any O2 introduced won't get scrubbed out by fermentation. My other option is to go ahead and bump the temp to 70 today to liven up fermentation and dry hop now. Thoughts?
I would dry hop as you wish or normally do. Adding it sooner will help with hop creep and maybe bio transformation. I wouldn’t wait until day 8. And yes once activity slows, bump up the temp and then dry hop.
 
I wou
Hey everyone, I haven't kept up with this thread lately. But what sort of attenuation is everyone getting with the S04/T58/WB06 (92%/5%/3%) blend? I've used it once before, and got 77% attenuation. I am now using it again, and just for the hell of it, I'm following the Trinity Brews TH Julius "clone" https://trinitybrewers.com/brews/ipa/julius-clone-treehouse-brewing-ipa/.

Here's the kicker: his recipe doesn't do an early high krausen DH, only a late dry hop, but with a few points of fermentation remaining in order to scrub out any O2 introduced during dry hopping. This goes against my normal NEIPA process of an early dry hop in the fermenter, and then doing a closed transfer to a keg with the second dry hop. I'm currently on Day 4 (brewed/pitched Saturday), 1.066 OG. I pitched around 82 degrees, activity kicked off in a few hours, then I dropped the temp to 64 on Day 2 and it's been sitting at 64. Activity has all but died down. I checked gravity this morning for the hell of it, and I'm at 1.020 (69% attenuation). The Trinity Brews schedule has the lone dry hop going in on Day 8 with a temp bump to 70.

My worry is, if I wait until Day 8 to DH, fermentation will be totally done and any O2 introduced won't get scrubbed out by fermentation. My other option is to go ahead and bump the temp to 70 today to liven up fermentation and dry hop now. Thoughts?
l wouldn’t call dry hopping at high krausen ‘normal NEIPA process’. I’ve yet to find any big breweries who do this.
 
Yeah I don’t know where the dry hopping at high krausen process even started? There’s absolutely no reason to do it that early and you’re potentially creating more damage than anything else. If you want to add hops during fermentation you just need to slightest bit of activity. Anything else and risk all sort of weird off flavors/aromas, yeast death, lackluster fermentation, poor diacetyl pickup, and just a complete blow off of so many of the aroma and flavor compounds you’re trying to keep in the beer.
 
So the Trinity Julius clone was actually featured in Zymurgry Aug/Sept 2019. It says pitch at 70 keep it there for 24 hours before slowly dropping to 64 over the course of 60 hours. I actually just brewed with this yeast combo and fI'm following the fermentation schedule from Zymurgy. Should be interesting as I wayyyy overhshot my gravity and I didn't adjust pitching rate...could be good .... could be bad. We shall see. Last time I brewed with this combo (with a shitty scale so I sure I overpitched the wb06) I got a little over 80% attenuation.

Updates to come
 
Has anyone had any luck lately? I recently brewed a batch with London fog, s05 to dry it out a bit and t-58 pitched 24 hours after initial pitch. Fermented at 66. It’s on day 20 and so far I’m not a fan. I get a little bit of fruity yeast esters but they are not strong. I also used that mash process I posted a couple weeks ago to get more glucose for isoamly acetate. I recently drank some heady which had esters similar to TH. I’m going to use Conan next time. Wouldn't it be funny if that was one of the yeast..
 
Completely agree as I’m starting to go through these beers. My palate can’t distinguish any other flavors other than the yeast. Just had Green tonight which I used to love and it’s just juicy fruit bubble gum to me. Not a bad thing as some want and are looking for that in their beer but I want some noticeable hop flavor too. Haven’t hit the Brights yet but I’m looking forward to those as they’ll be so different.
I’ve been saying this for a long time...just not here. All of their beers that use their house yeast taste incredibly similar and I can barely pick out any hops at all. They definitely taste good, but it’s almost as if they don’t even have any hops. Obviously they do, but it’s definitely not what’s coming through in the taste and flavor department.

In contrast, most trillium iPas are very hop forward. When drinking the street series beers, fort point beers, and most others, I can very clearly taste whatever hop is being featured. Not saying one is better than the other, just very different in how they taste.
 
In contrast, most trillium iPas are very hop forward. When drinking the street series beers, fort point beers, and most others, I can very clearly taste whatever hop is being featured. Not saying one is better than the other, just very different in how they taste.

I concur.
 
Trillium just posted this recipe. Wonder how it compares to their beer. Interesting hop schedule and British yeast. I read that they use London 3, so that may confirm some suspicions. https://www.trilliumbrewing.com/trillium-news/how-to-pale-ale

Thanks for sharing this and the yeast intel! I’ve heard rumors that Trill has some beers in their arsenal with only bittering and dry hop additions. I’ve tried the method myself a few times and found the resultant beers to be a bit less hop saturated in flavor but brighter in aroma. Definitely worth experimenting with if you’re a hop-crazed homebrewer ;)
 
Thanks for sharing this and the yeast intel! I’ve heard rumors that Trill has some beers in their arsenal with only bittering and dry hop additions. I’ve tried the method myself a few times and found the resultant beers to be a bit less hop saturated in flavor but brighter in aroma. Definitely worth experimenting with if you’re a hop-crazed homebrewer ;)

I had a buddy visit Trillium with a head brewer from a local place about three years ago. When they arrived he said the brewers at Trill were very open about their ingredients and recipes which is cool. Their yeast is Conan, the only hops added hot side are at the end of the boil or WP and then they dry hop the crap out of it. All their recipes have a base of 2 row, wheat and C10-15ish. Sometimes they’ll add other grains for flavor, like this recipe posted. If they want to make a DIPA they add corn sugar. Now all of this could have evolved since it was three years ago.

I live in Charleston and a guy that started Charles Towne Fermentory used to work at Trill. Supposedly he helped come up with a lot of the recipes there. His stuff is really good! Very lucky to get Trill-like beer in the south!
 
I had a buddy visit Trillium with a head brewer from a local place about three years ago. When they arrived he said the brewers at Trill were very open about their ingredients and recipes which is cool. Their yeast is Conan, the only hops added hot side are at the end of the boil or WP and then they dry hop the crap out of it. All their recipes have a base of 2 row, wheat and C10-15ish. Sometimes they’ll add other grains for flavor, like this recipe posted. If they want to make a DIPA they add corn sugar. Now all of this could have evolved since it was three years ago.

I live in Charleston and a guy that started Charles Towne Fermentory used to work at Trill. Supposedly he helped come up with a lot of the recipes there. His stuff is really good! Very lucky to get Trill-like beer in the south!
I'm in SC also and very fortunate to have a buddy in Charleston who always gets me CTF cans when they release. Hands down CTF is putting out the best hazies in SC, and next to Burial, maybe some of the best in the south.
 
My attempt is kegged and carbonated. I naturally carbonated with CBC and 3.9 oz of table sugar to a CO2 vol of 2.35. The aroma coming out of the spunding valve when I check the pressure was straight mango juice but the beer itself is tropical with the t-58/wb06 aroma coming through just a little too much. I’ve also found that honey malt can pull that aroma out a little too much, won’t be using it again with this yeast combo or I’ll use less (I used 0.25 lb in a 5 gallon batch).

the flavor is very juicy and tree house like in the front but that’s negated by the slight t-58/wb06 character in the finish. Still a very drinkable beer. The OG was 1.079 and it finished out at 1.021.

like I said previously, I overshot my OG and only had enough yeast on hand for an OG target of 1.070. So I’m not sure if the yeast was stressed and pulled out the flavors more - I’m wondering if adjust the pitching rate with the ratios the same would change it. I followed the fermentation schedule from the Zymurgy magazine Julius clone.

overall it’s closer than my previous attempt with this yeast (a more accurate scale helped). I’m going to transfer the beer into a CO2 purged corny with an ounce of Simcoe to see if I can cover up or play with the farmhouse like flavors. Hopefully the keg hop will help.
 

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My attempt is kegged and carbonated. I naturally carbonated with CBC and 3.9 oz of table sugar to a CO2 vol of 2.35. The aroma coming out of the spunding valve when I check the pressure was straight mango juice but the beer itself is tropical with the t-58/wb06 aroma coming through just a little too much. I’ve also found that honey malt can pull that aroma out a little too much, won’t be using it again with this yeast combo or I’ll use less (I used 0.25 lb in a 5 gallon batch).

the flavor is very juicy and tree house like in the front but that’s negated by the slight t-58/wb06 character in the finish. Still a very drinkable beer. The OG was 1.079 and it finished out at 1.021.

like I said previously, I overshot my OG and only had enough yeast on hand for an OG target of 1.070. So I’m not sure if the yeast was stressed and pulled out the flavors more - I’m wondering if adjust the pitching rate with the ratios the same would change it. I followed the fermentation schedule from the Zymurgy magazine Julius clone.

overall it’s closer than my previous attempt with this yeast (a more accurate scale helped). I’m going to transfer the beer into a CO2 purged corny with an ounce of Simcoe to see if I can cover up or play with the farmhouse like flavors. Hopefully the keg hop will help.
Good stuff! Any clove? What do you mean by farmhouse? Also when did you pitch the t58 and wb?
 
Good stuff! Any clove? What do you mean by farmhouse? Also when did you pitch the t58 and wb?

i pitched all three yeasts together. I think either my scale is just not sensitive enough since it only measures to the 0.1 or the OG was too high and stressed the yeast at that overall rate. I ferment in a fermonster and didn’t have any lag time issues it appeared to be a good ferment. Might just borrow a friends scale that is accurate to the 0.01 so I can be precise.
 

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Curiosity Eighty One is a fresh exploration of our house yeast, aiming to mix exotic hops with our familiar yeast profile in a way that integrates seamlessly with the beer. With our house yeast character controlled through careful fermentation management, a proprietary hop blend featuring varieties from three continents are able to shine. The result is a distinctly juicy rendition, with notes of fruit loops, tropical fruit leather, orange gummies, and tropicana all presently clearly and brightly in this gorgeous interpretation of Double IPA
 
has anyone tried (or thought about) subbing out one or more of the 3 normal yeasts in favor of a Kveik strain? I think Stranda is supposed to do more banana and there's another that's supposed to be very clean.
 
has anyone tried (or thought about) subbing out one or more of the 3 normal yeasts in favor of a Kveik strain? I think Stranda is supposed to do more banana and there's another that's supposed to be very clean.
I tried a tblspn of Hornindal and added wb06 after. Had a rotten egg smell that took some time to settle out. Wasn’t bad in the end but no TH esters. Wb06 always fades pretty quickly for me.
 
Given that they refer to "Some internet data shows that mix-yeast traces were found in some commercial NEIPA. " I'm guessing that some readers of this thread have!!!

Worth noting that S-33 is a close relative of Windsor and Muntons, and a fairly close cousin of T-58 which does seem to be quite biotransform-y.
 
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