Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Happy New Year everyone!

Had another doppelganger tonight, in addition to some bubbly. I definitely perceived some pepper from it tonight, even though the spice flavor was not something i would have described as pepper when i had it earlier in the week (all cans from the same canning run, canned 12/27). I suppose it could still be confirmation bias, but i was looking for a way to describe that character in all the cans of Doppelganger I had this week and pepper didn't stick out to me as a descriptor until tonight. Still, it's fairly subtle.

Compared to my latest attempt i think I need to drop the Munich, use a more neutral base than GP and up the T-58. Maybe something like 75/20/5% 2-row/carafoam/L10 and 82/3/15% S-04/WB-06/T-58.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Decided to do some testing today and measured the pH and gravity of a can of Doppelganger. Gravity out of the can looks to be 1.017 to my eye. This was a degassed sample, measured at 60F, which is the temp my hydrometer is calibrated to. At the printed-on-label ABV of 8.2%, I would estimate the O.G. would have been 1.079, which corresponds to 78.3% attenuation.

The pH reading came in at 4.54 (degassed, room temp), which if I recall is similar to readings others have taken on Julius. Interesting that Doppelganger is considerably bigger than Julius but the final pH is similar.

I then did a pH reading on my last attempt. Came in at 4.42, also degassed and at the same temp as the Doppelganger sample. Drinking the beers side by side last week, I had noticed mine was considerably more tart. The pH readings confirm that. With the pH scale being a log-10 scale, the difference in pH corresponds to a 30% higher acidity in my batch than in Doppelganger.

I wonder if replacing some of the S-04 with T-58 will both increase that background spice character and also raise the final pH to that 4.5-ish zone.

 

[Livinon2]

Great info! 1.079 is pretty big for an all malt ipa. I have to agree, drinking some cans recently T58 is really starting to stand out, and I'll be increasing my percentage too. I like the theory on final pH, it's also interesting your mash pH was high but it still finished so low. What still has me scratching my head is the RA in their finished beers and consistency of final pH. Maybe yeast related or process?

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

it's also interesting your mash pH was high but it still finished so low. What still has me scratching my head is the RA in their finished beers and consistency of final pH. Maybe yeast related or process?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about my batch, that the mash pH was high enough to make me cringe, but the final pH was comparatively low. I've made beers with 1318 and 1968 that started lower and finished higher pH wise. IIRC the Whitbread strain (S-04, 1098, 007) has a reputation for acid production.

So I have another theory on this. The alkalinity on those Alter Ego mineral results is high at 60 ppm. In that same article, Michael started at 37 ppm alkalinity his batch and finished at 0. My understanding is that some of the alkalinity will precipitate out while brewing. So to finish at 60 ppm would take a lot of alkalinity to begin with. But the hop character/bitterness my palate perceives in TH is closer to what I feel like I've gotten at lower boil pH in my beers. So if they are controlling their mash and boil pH to reasonable levels for the quality of kettle hop character, and still finishing at 4.5 pH, they could be adjusting pH post ferment. Which is also consistent with doppelganger and Julius finishing at about the same pH.

CaCO3 is much more soluble in liquid saturated with CO2, like finished beer, so that may be a way to do it. And this would be consistent with their alkalinity.

All just speculation, and I could be wrong. IIRC, dry hops raise pH, so it could theoretically be as simple as hopping intensity. But at the very least, for me this is motivation to pour a beer and see how much calcium carbonate it takes to raise the pH up to 4.5-ish.

 

[JohnConnor]

View attachment 551456
Took my first full pour last night from the batch with KCl — very soft, very full, so I'm pretty happy there. I need to dial the crystal up a hair though in comparison and to my personal taste. This was primarily Vic Secret with a bit of Amarillo and Simcoe. (Split rahr 2-row with pearl, 20% carafoam, 10% flaked oats, 2.5 % c20, 5% Vienna) FG 1.015 | 7.1% abv | 75 IBU

I'm curious if you feel your grain bill is responsible for the softness more so than the water/yeast? Do you think you could simplify to 2-row and some carafoam and get the same result?

 

[melville]

I'm curious if you feel your grain bill is responsible for the softness more so than the water/yeast? Do you think you could simplify to 2-row and some carafoam and get the same result?

I don't think so. The grist hasn't changed all that much over many, many iterations. Naturally carbing made a difference vs force carbed with no change in water additions, but adding salt(s) and moving those additions to the boil made a much bigger difference. On this point I'm very, very happy. (this was an issue where I was beginning to develop all sorts of crazy ideas on how it was achieved and/or what was hindering me, but like with everything else — adding salt made it better)

Other happy points:

Softness.
Fullness.
Hop Saturation.
Hop aroma.
Appearance.
Overall taste.

Needs work:
Roundedness (I need to dial back on hops and condition the full two weeks)
Balancing out sweet/dry/spice.

Backburner:
Milk Stout!?!?!?!

 

[melville]

It's crazy how much better my last beer is now at just over two weeks conditioning is versus 1 week. 21 day timeframe makes a world of difference.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

So here's a question for everyone who's in the 2-3% ish WB-06 club (where I am right now as well).

When I was taking a gravity reading on Doppelganger earlier this week, I drank the sample when I was done. Warm and flat for sure. But what I immediately noticed was that after letting a lot of the volatiles leave, there was a very prominent banana flavor. I started looking for it in subsequent cans that I had. Sure enough, I picked up on it, even carbonated and at serving temp. But no clove. I would point the finger at confirmation bias, but i have experienced this flavor with Haze before and remember picking up on it unprompted, without looking for it.

My attempt at 3% WB-06 didn't have that banana flavor. The ester character has predominantly been much more orange-y. My first attempt, which was 7.5% WB-06 had a bunch of clove, but when that faded the ester character that came out was still that orange flavor. Anyone get any banana from their attempts? Or experience that character in a TH beer?

 

[melville]

So here's a question for everyone who's in the 2-3% ish WB-06 club (where I am right now as well).

When I was taking a gravity reading on Doppelganger earlier this week, I drank the sample when I was done. Warm and flat for sure. But what I immediately noticed was that after letting a lot of the volatiles leave, there was a very prominent banana flavor. I started looking for it in subsequent cans that I had. Sure enough, I picked up on it, even carbonated and at serving temp. But no clove. I would point the finger at confirmation bias, but i have experienced this flavor with Haze before and remember picking up on it unprompted, without looking for it.

My attempt at 3% WB-06 didn't have that banana flavor. The ester character has predominantly been much more orange-y. My first attempt, which was 7.5% WB-06 had a bunch of clove, but when that faded the ester character that came out was still that orange flavor. Anyone get any banana from their attempts? Or experience that character in a TH beer?

My T-58 starter had some banana to it as well if I remember correctly. Can't recall picking that up myself in TH, but banana is prerequisite for bubble gum.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

My T-58 starter had some banana to it as well if I remember correctly. Can't recall picking that up myself in TH, but banana is prerequisite for bubble gum.

Oh, interesting, ok. So maybe increasing the T-58 will give us that background spice and also up the banana/bubblegum thing. And hopefully cut the tartness a little bit too.

 

[NJGeorge]

So here's a question for everyone who's in the 2-3% ish WB-06 club (where I am right now as well).

When I was taking a gravity reading on Doppelganger earlier this week, I drank the sample when I was done. Warm and flat for sure. But what I immediately noticed was that after letting a lot of the volatiles leave, there was a very prominent banana flavor. I started looking for it in subsequent cans that I had. Sure enough, I picked up on it, even carbonated and at serving temp. But no clove. I would point the finger at confirmation bias, but i have experienced this flavor with Haze before and remember picking up on it unprompted, without looking for it.

My attempt at 3% WB-06 didn't have that banana flavor. The ester character has predominantly been much more orange-y. My first attempt, which was 7.5% WB-06 had a bunch of clove, but when that faded the ester character that came out was still that orange flavor. Anyone get any banana from their attempts? Or experience that character in a TH beer?

I haven't got banana yet with my finished products, but while fermenting I have smelled it. Believe it or not, but I have smelled/tasted that tropical gummy banana aroma/flavor in Green. I have read that WB-06 fermented warm (78) = banana. What if they are fermenting WB-06 warm separately and then blending it in as previously mentioned as a possibility? Maybe they're fermenting S-04 and T-58 cool and then adding warm fermented WB-06 at the end with CBC and another dry hop letting it carb up. Just thinking out loud.. OR! what if they're fermenting S-04 and T-58 cool, raising temp, adding WB-06 and dry hops for a couple of days and then adding CBC to carb up and finish out. Hmm

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

I haven't got banana yet with my finished products, but while fermenting I have smelled it. Believe it or not, but I have smelled/tasted that tropical gummy banana aroma/flavor in Green. I have read that WB-06 fermented warm (78) = banana. What if they are fermenting WB-06 warm separately and then blending it in as previously mentioned as a possibility? Maybe they're fermenting S-04 and T-58 cool and then adding warm fermented WB-06 at the end with CBC and another dry hop letting it carb up. Just thinking out loud.. OR! what if they're fermenting S-04 and T-58 cool, raising temp, adding WB-06 and dry hops for a couple of days and then adding CBC to carb up and finish out. Hmm

Yeah, blending a finished, warm fermented WB-06 beer with a cool fermented S-04/T-58 beer occurred to me too. Then naturally carb to scavenge any O2 introduced while blending and add dry hops to preserve that character while conditioning, like you said. I would really like to try this at some point, but i think I'm going to try upping the T-58 on a co-pitched yeast blend first, just because it's easier for me, so I want to see if it works.

If i recall, I've experienced that banana thing in Green too, now that you mention it.

 

[NJGeorge]

Yeah, blending a finished, warm fermented WB-06 beer with a cool fermented S-04/T-58 beer occurred to me too. Then naturally carb to scavenge any O2 introduced while blending and add dry hops to preserve that character while conditioning, like you said. I would really like to try this at some point, but i think I'm going to try upping the T-58 on a co-pitched yeast blend first, just because it's easier for me, so I want to see if it works.

If i recall, I've experienced that banana thing in Green too, now that you mention it.

Could it be possible that T-58 is used for carbonating as well?

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Could it be possible that T-58 is used for carbonating as well?

I'm sure all four strains are active at least a little during conditioning. Realistically though the amount of sugar fermented at conditioning is so small. I feel like the amount of T-58 character we're experiencing in their beers is more consistent with a certain percentage as one of the primary strains. At that point though, you would already have the character you want by the time you're ready to condition, so you'd want a conditioning yeast that will preserve that profile, which is how CBC-1 is marketed (not sure about F-2). I would imagine that 6% T-58 as a primary co-pitch probably goes through more fermentables in the wort than the total amount you add for natural carb.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[KLITE]

A quick question on cbc1, how much are you fellas using per batch? Also has anyone tried F2?

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

A quick question on cbc1, how much are you fellas using per batch? Also has anyone tried F2?

I have used 2 g CBC-1 on both my 5 gal attempts. IIRC F-2 is not available to homebrewers in the US, so haven't tried that. Not sure if it's available in Spain or elsewhere in Europe (isn't Fermentis a French company?).

 

[KLITE]

I have used 2 g CBC-1 on both my 5 gal attempts. IIRC F-2 is not available to homebrewers in the US, so haven't tried that. Not sure if it's available in Spain or elsewhere in Europe (isn't Fermentis a French company?).

I see. Im not sure of their origin but i have been told they are used by a ton of brewers of all sizes. Indeed we have it available in 20g packets, it also seems there are 19 times more available living cells per gram:

lallemand Living Yeast Cells ≥ 1 x 10*10 per gram of dry yeast
Fermentis Living Yeast Cells ≥ 19 x 10*9 per gram of dry yeast

fermentis reccomends anywhere between 2 to 7g per hl, that 0.04g to 0.14g per 5 gallon batch. I wonder if thats right lol seems very little yeast.

 

[SanPancho]

i'm not sure i have seen a big difference between F2 and cbc. but to be honest i dont have a whole lot of history with F2/CBC natural carb or bottling. the few beers we naturally carb arent hoppy so we just cap the fermenter and let the primary yeast do its thing.

i guess i could do a split batch next time to get a side by side of a beer with cbc/F2 for natural carb, but i wouldnt be able to do any yeast counts or other diagnostics. as they're both "designed" to work in the background, my hunch is that the differences between the two are so slight as to be undetectable. if anyone is capable of testing/etc let me know.

 

[Livinon2]

I've used 3% WB06 fermented at 62 and 64, pitched at 68 and 75 respectively. I'm yet to get any banana and clove. I also didnt tap the beers until 2.5-3 weeks and they conditioned warm for at least 2 weeks. Next batch will be a larger percentage of T58 and pitched warm (75ish) fermented at 62 again.

@melville mind sharing your latest recipe/process?

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

fermentis reccomends anywhere between 2 to 7g per hl, that 0.04g to 0.14g per 5 gallon batch. I wonder if thats right lol seems very little yeast.

Looks like you're off by a factor of 10. There are 100 liters in 1 hL and about 19 L in 5 gal. So to convert from g/hL to g/5 gal you would multiply by 19/100, which is about the same as dividing by 5. So 2-7 g/hL would be 0.4-1.4 g per 5 gal.

Lallemand recommends 10 g/hL for CBC-1, which is right around 2 g per 5 gal. I've attached their spec sheet for it.

 

[melville]

@melville mind sharing your latest recipe/process?

2.5gal batch

42.5% rahr 2-row
20% TF pearl
20% weyermann carafoam
10% flaked
5% weyermann Vienna
2.5% C20

targeted 70 IBUs (beersmith)

Hop extract (columbus) at 45m for 20ibus
Vic Secret with a pinch of Amarillo and Simcoe at 5m for 20 ibus
Vic Secret with a pinch of Amarillo and Simcoe and columbus at flameout for 10 minutes for 30 IBUS.

Mash 153F
Mash ph: 5.3
OG 1.069
FG. 1.015
ABV: 7.1%

Water: 250:100
I used gypsum, epsom, NaCl, and KCl to get there.
Ca:30ppm
Mg: 11ppm
Na: 65ppm
Sulfate: 100ppm
Chloride: 100(from NaCl) & 150 (from KCl)

added the NaCl and KCl in the boil.

s04: 88 | t58: 10 | wb06: 2

pitched at 62F. fermented at 62F

@36 hours: Dry Hop 1: 50% Vic Secret | 25% Amarillo | 15% Simcoe | 10% Columbus (100g) - loose

Day 6: same dry hop (100g) - loose

Kegged day 8

Keg Hop 1: 50% Galaxy | 25% Amarillo | 15% Simcoe | 10% Columbus (75g) - loose

force carb/condition for 2 weeks.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The logic behind which yeast strains are sold in which markets makes no real sense. For instance, here in the UK, homebrewers get almost all the Lallemand range, apart from CBC-1 and Diamond Lager, whereas we do get most of the Fermentis range including F-2. Across the border in Ireland they get the "Eurozone" selection, which means they do get CBC-1 and Diamond Lager (and I don't remember seeing F-2, but don't quote me on that).

I wouldn't get hung up on CBC-1 vs F-2, they're both meant to do the same job - converting simple sugars to bubbles whilst leaving as much as possible of the beer untouched. There's a bit of curiosity value in tracking down what they are, but there shouldn't be much difference from a functional point of view.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

2.5gal batch

42.5% rahr 2-row
20% TF pearl
20% weyermann carafoam
10% flaked
5% weyermann Vienna
2.5% C20

targeted 70 IBUs (beersmith)

Hop extract (columbus) at 45m for 20ibus
Vic Secret with a pinch of Amarillo and Simcoe at 5m for 20 ibus
Vic Secret with a pinch of Amarillo and Simcoe and columbus at flameout for 10 minutes for 30 IBUS.

Mash 153F
Mash ph: 5.3
OG 1.069
FG. 1.015
ABV: 7.1%

Water: 250:100
I used gypsum, epsom, NaCl, and KCl to get there.
Ca:30ppm
Mg: 11ppm
Na: 65ppm
Sulfate: 100ppm
Chloride: 100(from NaCl) & 150 (from KCl)

added the NaCl and KCl in the boil.

s04: 88 | t58: 10 | wb06: 2

pitched at 62F. fermented at 62F

@36 hours: Dry Hop 1: 50% Vic Secret | 25% Amarillo | 15% Simcoe | 10% Columbus (100g) - loose

Day 6: same dry hop (100g) - loose

Kegged day 8

Keg Hop 1: 50% Galaxy | 25% Amarillo | 15% Simcoe | 10% Columbus (75g) - loose

force carb/condition for 2 weeks.

Awesome! What were your actual ounces in the kettle for your finishing hop additions?

Did you have to do any acid adjustments to get your mash pH down to 5.3?

I'm on the hunt for a way to keg hop loose without clogging the works. How do you do it? Scott Janish filter?

 

[melville]

Awesome! What were your actual ounces in the kettle for your finishing hop additions?

Did you have to do any acid adjustments to get your mash pH down to 5.3?

I'm on the hunt for a way to keg hop loose without clogging the works. How do you do it? Scott Janish filter?

44g vic secret (21% AA!)
15g amarillo
8g simcoe
3g columbus

My thinking with my kettle hop additions has been maximizing the actual amount of hops - hence the short contact times vs less hops for longer whirlpool etc.

I used lactic to bring ph down. (added to water before mash based on beer smith prediction, check @15 minutes to confirm)

I use the filter that Janish recommended.

 

[melville]

I'm at 5 days into fermentation with

• 15% T-58
• late citra hop extract addition (10 minute)
• mash/kettle ph of 5.2
• 5% flaked barley addition (?head retention?)
• 3.5% C40 addition (sweetness/color correction)

As always FG has already been hit. Really, really orangey is the biggest thing I notice. Combined my final dry hop quantity with the amount I would have also put in as a keg hop in an effort to see if skipping the keg hop makes a difference.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

21% AA!

Man, that's crazy. There is some potent stuff coming out lately. I remember years ago when seeing 14% AA CTZ made my eyes pop.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

I'm at 5 days into fermentation with

• 15% T-58
• late citra hop extract addition (10 minute)
• mash/kettle ph of 5.2
• 5% flaked barley addition (?head retention?)
• 3.5% C40 addition (sweetness/color correction)

As always FG has already been hit. Really, really orangey is the biggest thing I notice. Combined my final dry hop quantity with the amount I would have also put in as a keg hop in an effort to see if skipping the keg hop makes a difference.

Sounds awesome. I'm going to try a similar thing in a couple of weeks. Are you getting any banana/bubblegum from it? Any background spice?

I'm still wondering how to get that TH banana/bubblegum character with just a little of that background spice instead of tons of clove...

 

[Korx]

For whatever it’s worth - I live about a mile away as the crow flies from the Monson brewery and we had our water tested for brewing. We have well water with no filtering which is what we use for brewing and is what I assume they used while brewing in Monson. Report is below all numbers reported in PPM.

PH: 6.6
TDS: 52
Na: 3
K: 2
Ca: 7
Mg: 3
CaCO3 cation hardness: 30
NO3: 0.9
SO4: 4
Cl: 4
CO3: <1.0
HCO3: 21
CaCO3 anion alkalinity: 17

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

For whatever it’s worth - I live about a mile away as the crow flies from the Monson brewery and we had our water tested for brewing. We have well water with no filtering which is what we use for brewing and is what I assume they used while brewing in Monson. Report is below all numbers reported in PPM.

PH: 6.6
TDS: 52
Na: 3
K: 2
Ca: 7
Mg: 3
CaCO3 cation hardness: 30
NO3: 0.9
SO4: 4
Cl: 4
CO3: <1.0
HCO3: 21
CaCO3 anion alkalinity: 17

Great information!!

That water is blank-slate soft.

 

[Jmash]

So my kids got me a SS chronical fermenter for Christmas. I did the yeast ratio of 82/3/15.
Bubbling away on day 3. What's the latest consensus on first dry hop? Day 3 or 4? When should I dump the trub? Before 2nd dry hop or right before transfer to keg?


Grain Bill for more of a Green recipe:
7 lbs US 2 row
7 lbs Irish Ale Malt
1 lb Malted Oats
1 lb flaked wheat
8 oz Flaked oats
8 oz Honey Malt
8 oz Cara Pils dex 2.0
8 oz turbinado

Whirlpool at 160 2 citra/1 mosaic/2 vic secret (couldn't get galaxy)
dryhop 1 and 2 the same

 

[couchsending]

So has anyone actually done experimentation in regards to dry hop timing during fermentation? As in splitting a batch say three ways or at least two. Dry hopping one at High Krausen, one with say 4ish points to go and one after yeast has flocced? I tried but just wasn’t happy with splitting 6 gallons into three 3 gallon car boys. Just wasn’t into all the head space and the lack of temp control. I usually ferment in 7g SS chronicals.

I just haven’t ever read or heard of any highly regarded pro brewer talk about dry hopping at max activity. Matt Bryndlson and JC talk about dry hopping with activity for bio-t and O2 scrubbing but only with a few points to go.

Also according to Nate, Green probably has no wheat, flaked oats, or honey malt... might not have any sugar either.

I can’t rememeber.. @melville did you specifically read Carafoam on a bag of malt in the brewery? Could it have been Carahell by chance? Just read a bunch on how Carafoam is actually Foam negative (which is slightly confusing) but Carahell is not. we know how Nate loves his foam (so do I).

 

[Livinon2]

@couchsending I've been using 3 gallon better bottles for split batch experiments and they're great. This pic was taken this morning of a batch brewed Saturday. One batch is getting all dry hops at 48 hrs and the other is split at 48 hrs and day 10. I'm with you on dry hop timing. I don't understand much about it but plan to keep exploring.

This batch also has carahell and ironical we noticed the foam when transferring was intense.

 

[melville]

So has anyone actually done experimentation in regards to dry hop timing during fermentation? As in splitting a batch say three ways or at least two. Dry hopping one at High Krausen, one with say 4ish points to go and one after yeast has flocced? I tried but just wasn’t happy with splitting 6 gallons into three 3 gallon car boys. Just wasn’t into all the head space and the lack of temp control. I usually ferment in 7g SS chronicals.

I just haven’t ever read or heard of any highly regarded pro brewer talk about dry hopping at max activity. Matt Bryndlson and JC talk about dry hopping with activity for bio-t and O2 scrubbing but only with a few points to go.

Also according to Nate, Green probably has no wheat, flaked oats, or honey malt... might not have any sugar either.

I can’t rememeber.. @melville did you specifically read Carafoam on a bag of malt in the brewery? Could it have been Carahell by chance? Just read a bunch on how Carafoam is actually Foam negative (which is slightly confusing) but Carahell is not. we know how Nate loves his foam (so do I).

It was specifically and definitely Carafoam (I took a pic — also visible Vienna and Munich, all Weyermann) and Nate has mentioned carafoam in regards to a "fine haze" as I think he put it.

On oats, "most do not" ... sort of equals "some definitely do", or at least it leaves it in the realm of possibility as a kosher TH ingredient.

Doesn't seem critical, but I put a small amount in one and liked the appearance it added (slightly lighter tone, very, very slight "milky" look)

Definitely have carahell on my shopping list next time around.

I've said this before, but I did a couple of beers where I was late with early dry hops and those beers had much less haze.

 

[Livinon2]

@melville Thoughts on the "no flaked anything" tweet? Maybe malted oats or golden naked oats?

@Jmash Apologies I blew right by your question. I dont have a definitive answer or side by side of dry hop timing, yet. I try to drop in the first dry hop at peak activity, my thought being the yeast will continue to rouse the hops and they wont drop to the bottom. I've also been late to dry hop or too early and not gotten a solid haze. I've also only dropped in a small dry hop at this phase with a large one later and gotten a solid haze. I also thought I got the timing right and the beer dropped totally clear...YMMV

 

[NJGeorge]

I can confirm as well that if you miss the early dry hop window your beer will come out much clearer. I also use around 20% carafoam with good results. Next time I’m going to add a little bit of oats to get more of that haze.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

Yeah, same. In NEIPAs I've done previously with 1318 i have noticed that I get much more haze dry hopping at or near the peak of activity.

I have been throwing in my first set of dry hops at 24-48 hours with this yeast blend, then DH2 about 48 hours after that. Keg day 8 or 9.

 

[couchsending]

Personally I don’t care what it looks like, it’s rather far down on the list. If it was perfectly clear and had insane aroma, flavor, and mouthfeel then it would be better.

Does Dry Hopping during really active fermentation have a distinctly positive aroma and flavor impact vs. DH with less yeast activity.. say 4 or less points to go... conceptually I would think so many of the oils would be pulled down when the yeast floccs as there is so much yeast in suspension at max activity.

 

[SanPancho]

Personally I don’t care what it looks like, it’s rather far down on the list. If it was perfectly clear and had insane aroma, flavor, and mouthfeel then it would be better.

Does Dry Hopping during really active fermentation have a distinctly positive aroma and flavor impact vs. DH with less yeast activity.. say 4 or less points to go... conceptually I would think so many of the oils would be pulled down when the yeast floccs as there is so much in suspension

this is how it works in my mind too. Yet i know some folks are having great success with DH on day 1 or 2. Cant get my head around it. But it works sometimes.

 

[stonebrewer]

I definitely DH on day 1-2 and think that it works well. Thinking maybe it has more to do with the hops moving in suspension and being able to impart more of their goodies because the surface contact is much greater as they move around in suspension. One thing I am contemplating doing when I get more time (*HAH) is to either put a spin bar in or use a pump to recirculate the keg. Thinking is that a lot of breweries get the hops moving in their setup to get better surface contact and impart more of the goods to the beer. Increases aroma, if not flavor. Anyone doing anything like this now and have results to report?

 

[couchsending]

From what I’ve read people were recirculating hops for a while but have maybe stopped doing it now for the most part??? Not 100% sure.

Also heard some breweries say rousing can be bad due to Co2 scrubbing but heard just as many brewers say they still do it and the scrubbing is fallacy?

There is some research out there where brewers have spun fermenters while dry hopping. If you google it I think it should be easy to find. If memory serves me correctly it didn’t have a positive benefit but haven’t read up on it in a while.