Is your LHBS taking advantage of the Shortage?

[Chriso]

... You would get a half pallet for yourself and the LHBS store would get the other half of what I assume is a normal order for them. ...

Half pallet is way too much - I am looking for 3-4 bags at a time, lasting me ~4-6 months (plus some) in the process. I have tried to 'recruit' other local brewers to split a half-pallet to piggy-back with his order, but we've never gotten more than 8-10 sacks total together, and it's never really materialized. It's not a big deal though - It just mostly hurts because I'm fairly equidistant from all the major online HBSes and so I get "slammed" with shipping no matter what I do. Every time I check up on numbers, there is one HBS that can come within +/- 5 dollars (shipped) of my LHBS'es price (with tax). The rest of them are +5 dollars or more, sometimes far far more. I just envy all of those who have sweet brewery deals that let them get access to "normal" bulk prices without a huge shipping charge.

I don't mean to beat the dead horse. It can die. Poor horse. :fro:

 

[ben the brewman]

it is getting crazy. the first 33 pound jug of malt extract i bought was $70, then it went to $80 and now its $95. i wanted to buy a 8 pound jug of wiedemann wheat malt extract but he told me it was $50 so i left empty handed.

 

[EdWort]

it is getting crazy. the first 33 pound jug of malt extract i bought was $70, then it went to $80 and now its $95. i wanted to buy a 8 pound jug of wiedemann wheat malt extract but he told me it was $50 so i left empty handed.

Yeah, you can thank the cost of Diesel for part of that. AHS sells a 40# bucket for about $96 for most of their malts. I heard that the price increased substantially recently.

 

[RichBrewer]

I guess I'm pretty lucky. My LHBS sells malt by the ounce and hops in 1 ounce bags. They still have decent prices too. Well, it's about 5 minutes from my house too!

 

[ArcaneXor]

Price gouging is a term that describes raising prices on an item that everyone needs in order to survive in a market condition that literally forces you to buy regardless of price. Example: All roads are flooded out and the municipal water system is contaminated. You're a price gouger if you bought up all the bottled water in the area and then row your boat to each house with bottled water and charge $100 a gallon.

It is ironic that people condemn the basics of a capitalist system when the very life we live is so dependent on it.

Are you seriously suggesting beer is not an essential item?

 

[Austinhomebrew]

That's steep.
Now that you're buying online; watch out for
some of the vendors shipping on bulk grain. A 55#
bag of 2 row was at a mere 48bucks was going to
have a lovely shipping price tacked onto it of $27 !!
That's more than half the cost of the grain. That was
the LOWEST option they had on shipping.
The best deals are online, just do your homework, and
screw the LHBS if they charge like that. Those are hyperinflated
prices.

To be fair, $27 is what it cost to ship 55# of grain just about anywhere.
We just shipped an order to a customer in Vermont that was 130#, mostly grain.

Do you want to guess how much we paid for the shipping charges?
Lets don't include the cost for the boxes, tape and shipping peanuts.

$109!! So, $27 for 55# is pretty cheap. Of course, we only charged the customer $6.99 because that is our deal. So when comparing prices, compare the delivered price to your door, not just the price on the product.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Oh, you know it.

Hey, to the OP: what "shortage" are they "taking advantage of"? According to my sorta-local HBS owner, imported grains might be going up but domestic (breiss et al) are actually going down. I bought two 50lb sacks from him for about $50 each, and this was last month.

If people are stupid enough to pay $3.20 for a pound of domestic 2-row, then they deserve to be ripped off. End of story. The d-bag can charge $8/lb is he wants, and if people still buy it, more power to him. If there were stupid bastards out there who were willing to pay me more than the going market rate for something, who am I to turn down their money?

SInce when does anything go down in price? Breiss prices just recently went up. You local guy may have lowered his price but his cost went up.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I think you should tell the LHBS owner how you feel. Present the facts, not your emotions. If he states that he cannot stay in business if he lowers his price, then it is what it is and kindly tell him that you cannot afford to purchase ingredients from him. I am blessed with many great LHBSs in my area. I much prefer seeing what I am buying before I get it, I can see with my eyes how much turn over there is and how fresh my ingredients are. I just ask Brad behind the counter, 'hey how old is this stuff', and he says '___ days, it was dropped off two days ago'. I also like getting his advice and supporting the local small business. I have a great fear of buying ingredients from an online store/warehouse where I have no personal relation with my supplier.

However, I am lucky enough to have access to many stores near me that all have good stock and supplies. I would say in your case if the owner is a dick, or just has outrageous prices, give Forrest your business.

I agree with Evan! I have not seen a significant price increase for anything but hops. My local guy has great hop connections so still has most everything all the time. Because of this, he has spread the price increase of the limited supply hops (Cascade) across all hops so the price has increased, but that's no big whoop.

The owner knows how much other people charge. He has to. Apparently he feels he needs to charge this amount to stay in business, so let him. Just shop elsewhere. I don't think talking to him will help. He thought long and hard if he is charging that much.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

man my LHBS is $2.45 a pound. I didn't know any better. But don't have any other local choice. Good think I got plenty of base 2-Row

Youy have http://www.listermann.com

 

[Austinhomebrew]

It seems that, that home brew shop is a farging rip off. I to buy some stuff online but the LHBS here in St. Louis is pretty good. He is a little pricey but is a wealth of knowledge and has fresh homebrew on tap for samples. So to me its worth paying a little extra for the homebrew advice at my beckon call. But i am against any store be it home brew supply or otherwise that are in the business of taking advantage of people.

What about capitalism and the fact that he has to bring in a certain amount of money to stay open? Let the market decide. He has to charge what he needs to stay open. He could charge less but then he won't stay open or he can charge a lot and people will shop elsewhere and he won't stay open.

This is America and he has every right to go out of business anyway he chooses.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

damn, i'm so spoiled. my LHBS doesn't overcharge for anything...i'm still paying <$1.50/lb of grain and can get it cheaper in bulk. hops prices are $3/oz right now.

their turnaround is AMAZING. all the ingredients are nice and fresh because they're constantly checking what they sell and what to buy. it is a VERY well run customer-based business.

great beer always on tap, too. the extract recipes are incredible...i don't know how they get rid of the twang with certain recipes.

i practically live there.

Because Extract twang does not exist. Don't hijack this thread because of me. Start a new thread if you want to discuss the myth.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I will redefine my use of the word ****** to mean "poor business practice."

Evan!, as much as your economics posts p!ss me off, you are totally right. No one has to shop at the LHBS that is selling items at a price significantly more than the competition and it seems like many of us can agree that it's not the way we would personally run a business.

Take for example the gas station owners who raised the prices to $6/gal after Hurricane Katrina. Everyone called it price gouging, but in reality as long as people were willing to pay it, there was nothing wrong with it. Am I finally getting it?

One of the oil companies CEO made $400,000,000 in 2006. That is $192,307.69 per hour if he worked 52 weeks and 40 hour a week. He probably took a vacation in there somewhere as well. It is a little different comparing gas to homebrew items.

I doubt the homebrew store guy is making that much. He probably has very high expenses and a low customer base and doesn't want to go back to working for the man.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Jeebus, I have never seen a thread beat a dead horse so bad. Either buy crap locally or don't.

We are actually debating the merits of Capitalism vs. Socialism but using LHBS as a metaphor so we don't sound all high-brow.

Does anyone on this thread run a business that is or was successful?

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I wish ours *had* part-time jobs so I could get one there. It's just the owner, no one else.

I realize it would be a long commute but you can work part time for me.

You could work Mondays and then the 2 days to get back to Nebraska and 2 days to get back to Austin. Then you could work Saturday....

Or if you think you can drive the 14 hours straight you could work every 4th day. That would definately be a part time job.

Forrest

 

[scinerd3000]

****....forrest is pissed.

 

[scinerd3000]

****....forrest is pissed. In defense though AHB is pretty damn cheap compared to my LHBS...they are at what i will consider gouge levels.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

****....forrest is pissed.

Seriously, why would you think I am pissed? I never get pissed.
Well I got pissed once when an employee started to pour some dark liquid extract and went to the bathroom and took a magazine with him. He poured about 300 pounds on the ground. I had him clean it all up then fired him. Slacker duuuude.

 

[Ryanh1801]

Seriously, why would you think I am pissed? I never get pissed.
Well I got pissed once when an employee started to pour some dark liquid extract and went to the bathroom and took a magazine with him. He poured about 300 pounds on the ground. I had him clean it all up then fired him. Slacker duuuude.

I bet that was a fun clean up.. I think I would have beyond pissed for that one.

 

[SourHopHead]

I saved ~$20 from my LHBS. I hated to do it, but it was done this time.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Because Extract twang does not exist. Don't hijack this thread because of me. Start a new thread if you want to discuss the myth.

i'm not hijacking anything...and cool your jets, buddy

i'll start another thread when i do a little test

 

[Austinhomebrew]

i'm not hijacking anything...and cool your jets, buddy

i'll start another thread when i do a little test

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that you were hijacking the thread.
I was addressing the audience to not hijack the thread so we could continue the discussion we were having.

I can see that I wasn't clear, sorry.

Forrest

 

[EvilTOJ]

And Forrest carpet bombs the thread! Evan! I found a new avatar for you;

Silly hu-mon!

 

[Austinhomebrew]

And Forrest carpet bombs the thread!

Just bored and can't sleep. Just found the thread and caught up with all of the posts.

You now that if you make your own wine using kits you won't have red wine headaches.

Forrest

 

[HarvInSTL]

To be fair, $27 is what it cost to ship 55# of grain just about anywhere.
We just shipped an order to a customer in Vermont that was 130#, mostly grain.

Do you want to guess how much we paid for the shipping charges?
Lets don't include the cost for the boxes, tape and shipping peanuts.

$109!! So, $27 for 55# is pretty cheap. Of course, we only charged the customer $6.99 because that is our deal. So when comparing prices, compare the delivered price to your door, not just the price on the product.

Forrest

To be fair are you saying that as a whole AHS is losing money every quarter?

With all due respect, we all love your shipping prices but I think we all know that you make up for that (when you can) in your every day prices for other items. It is truly great that you offer a flat rate shipping, but the song and dance about how you are always losing money on shipping is getting old. (I did preface this with all due respect)

It seems to me that this is pretty simple, if AHS was losing money on a regular basis with their flat rate shipping they would do do one of two things.

Stop offering the flat rate shipping or go out of business. Do I need to state which I think you would pick?

Now as far as your shipping 130# of grain for $109 I don't understand that one. If it costs $27 to ship a 55# sack, why wouldn't you just split the customers order up into 3 different shipments? It sounds to me like you were saying that it costs more to ship 1 130# package than it does to ship 3 55# packages. And I'm sure the $10 shipping surcharge on bulk grains helps cover some of the shipping.

And on that note is AHS stuck with using UPS? Last month I shipped almost 20 oversized 45# packages across the US with DHL and didn't pay more than $16 each shipped.

 

[scinerd3000]

Seriously, why would you think I am pissed? I never get pissed.
Well I got pissed once when an employee started to pour some dark liquid extract and went to the bathroom and took a magazine with him. He poured about 300 pounds on the ground. I had him clean it all up then fired him. Slacker duuuude.

thats alot of $$ down the tube. Ide be pissed too. In retrospect i guess we all enjoy a rant now and then.

 

[bigben]

Well, I have officially shattered my personal 'Longest Thread' record.

Just have to say to Forrest -- Thanks for the excellent product!! You will be my 'Sorta-Local HBS' for the time being, unless you start ripping me off,

 

[tranceamerica]

my LHBS prides himself on keeping prices low. he charges about $3 for 2 oz of hops (you have to buy hops w/other ingredients) and $1.20 / lb for base malt, and I think $1.60 for specialty. He apologized about raising the grain prices ten cents a pound because his price went up.

If you are in seattle, then check out Market Cellar Winery:

http://www.marketcellarwinery.com/

his prices online are all wrong (ignore online pricing) but drop into his store and enjoy good service and low prices.

EDIT: high shipping prices are killing all sorts of online business, IMHO. EBay for example, has become silly - shipping is often more than the thing you are buying, so I don't even buy stuff from there anymore.

EDIT AGAIN: I also appreciate bob's homebrew here in seattle - prices are higher, but store is clean, I can mix & match my own grains, and he's well stocked. Although I wish he'd put prices on the yeast and hops, been suprised how high they were several times when taking them up to the register.

 

[CBBaron]

To be fair are you saying that as a whole AHS is losing money every quarter?

With all due respect, we all love your shipping prices but I think we all know that you make up for that (when you can) in your every day prices for other items. It is truly great that you offer a flat rate shipping, but the song and dance about how you are always losing money on shipping is getting old. (I did preface this with all due respect)

It seems to me that this is pretty simple, if AHS was losing money on a regular basis with their flat rate shipping they would do do one of two things.

Stop offering the flat rate shipping or go out of business. Do I need to state which I think you would pick?

Now as far as your shipping 130# of grain for $109 I don't understand that one. If it costs $27 to ship a 55# sack, why wouldn't you just split the customers order up into 3 different shipments? It sounds to me like you were saying that it costs more to ship 1 130# package than it does to ship 3 55# packages. And I'm sure the $10 shipping surcharge on bulk grains helps cover some of the shipping.

And on that note is AHS stuck with using UPS? Last month I shipped almost 20 oversized 45# packages across the US with DHL and didn't pay more than $16 each shipped.

I believe Forrest was referring to it being a minimum of $27 to ship 55# of grain. Shipping from Austin to Vermont would be on the high end of any shipping rates.

I think everyone here realizes that AHS makes up the shipping cost in the base price, however that policy does do several things for the customers. It makes it easier to figure the cost of your order before going to checkout and it encourages big orders to take best advantage of the shipping rate. I'm stil willing to bet the AHS barely breaks even or worse on some of those orders like the guy from Vermont.

As for the OP, I would guess that store has a very slow turn over of inventory and so he needs a better margin to cover overhead. Which ofcourse slows down the turnover even more. I would guess he will either have to reconsider his business plan in the near future or end up closing. The only exception would be if it is a store that makes most of the money from a different source and just sells home brew ingredients as a side. Like several of the local HBSes near me. One is a beer and wine store another is a brew-on-premise.

Yes capitalism does allow a business to charge what it like regardless of cost, however someone who prices themselves well above the competition will usually find themselves losing business that won't come back. This is usually bad for the business in the long run. I'm all for supporting the local business "IF" they are comparable or better than the competition. But I will not pay a significant premium or put up with poor service just to buy local.

Craig

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I believe Forrest was referring to it being a minimum of $27 to ship 55# of grain. Shipping from Austin to Vermont would be on the high end of any shipping rates.

I think everyone here realizes that AHS makes up the shipping cost in the base price, however that policy does do several things for the customers. It makes it easier to figure the cost of your order before going to checkout and it encourages big orders to take best advantage of the shipping rate. I'm stil willing to bet the AHS barely breaks even or worse on some of those orders like the guy from Vermont.

Craig

I am not complaining that I paid $109 to ship the order. Just offering clarity that $27 is not expensive to ship 55 pounds. I have tried DHL and my customers revolted. They suck. It doesn't matter if they are a little less expensive if they suck.

As far as making up the shiping cost on the base price, that is not true. That is assuming that all Homebrew stores make the same amount of profit.
We pay UPS $250,000 over what we collect in shipping charges a year. That is not making it up on the base price. I will say it again, I am not complaining. We should have the best delivered price for your order.
People keep saying we have to make it up somewhere but we don't. We just don't make as much profit. I am not complaining. If people can believe that Walmart doesn't make it up somewhere and they have a lower total bill why can't they believe that we don't take as much margin as other stores. Target makes 4.6% profit and Walmart makes 3.2% they don't make it up somewhere they just take less profit and more people shop there. So much that every 12th dollar is spent at Walmart.

 

[neuron555]

Not to send this thread off in a different direction, but there is also more to a business than just the price. I have two LHBS nearby, and their prices are decent, but they don't always have every specialty ingredient. Those I can find at a place like AHS. The other thing that may make you loyal to your local place, is the the personal service you may or may not get. I'd love the place with the brew on tap, but one of my places has an arrogant b-----d who thinks he knows everthing. On a few occasions, I have gone in and mentioned something I read in this forum, and got treated like I was the village idiot. Guess where I only go when I am desperate? Bought my last order from AHS.