Is this really all I need for AG??

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Mike-H

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Ok, I just read that whole thread about creating an AG system from a cooler...... I'm confused as hell now but I cant wait to learn more. I brew with extract and someone posted this link:

http://www.annapolishomebrew.com/shopmashing.asp

Is that whole crazy thread about creating what I simply can buy for $60.00?? I must be missing something, please help me out...
 
I'm so frusterated and there is so much I dont understand about AG. I am going back to the extract forum and i'm not going to return here for a long time.
 
You can use that Listermann bucket deal to do all grain no problem. (You do need to have a kettle that can handle a full boil - 30qts at a bare MINIMUM because you'll be boiling 6.5 gallons or so to finish with 5. A cheap way to get this is with a turkey fryer - often they come with a propane burner, stand, and 30+qt aluminum kettle for $50-60 - check walmart, home depot, etc.)

I personally wouldn't use that setup because using a plain old bucket for a mash isn't great. You're pretty much guaranteed to lose a significant amount of heat during the mash through that bucket unless you insulate it somehow. Your sparge water in the other bucket will also be losing heat as you sparge.

Temperature control of the mash & sparge is very important with all grain - and losing those few degrees of heat during the mash/sparge could alter the flavor profile of your beer a lot. --- That stuff said - you could make beer with that setup & probably be happy.

I use a 28qt cheapo igloo rectangular cooler. I put a cheapo copper manifold in the bottom (cheaper would be cpvc) - basically a rectangle of tubing with a tube running lengthwise down the middle - with lots of slits cut into the copper. It has a spout that I siphon out with that comes up above the top of the cooler. It really is simple & with cpvc & a drill you could make one for less than $15. I use my old extract brew kettle (20qt) to hold my sparge water & keep it hot - if it cools down I can heat it on the stove. (since I already had it - free).

So if you have a cooler & a drill & a 5 gallon kettle - you can go all grain for $20 or so and have much better temperature control and make better beer.
 
Ok, so if I get this right, AG brewing requires the following:

1. turkey fryer
2. lauder tun (cooler with a false bottom (strainer))
3. sparge water holder... another cooler????

So, you heat up the grains with some water (how much???)
put the water & grains in the lauder tuN??
put more water in the sparge cooler
move water from the sparge cooler to the lauder tun and back to the turkey fryer??
continue brewing as normal?!?

I guess its really the process i dont understand... and i've been reading a ton!
 
I'll clarify a little. For all grain you need:

1. a brew pot big enough for a full boil. I have a turkey fryer but at 30 qt. it's not quite big enough, but it can work. If you have a pot that can hold 8+ gallons and a heat source for it, you're good to go.

2. A mash tun. The $60 listerman bucket can work, but for the same price you can build your own out of a 5 gallon cooler and it will be insulated and will not lose much heat.

3. Another vessel for sparge water and a method to get water to mash tun. I just use another pot (again I am getting about 5 gallons to temp) or series of pots. You don't need a sparge arm. I just use a 1 quart pyrex measuring cup and gently pour sparge water on the submerged grain.

So you see, the only real necessary piece of equipment is the mash tun. Everything else can be pieced together if necessary.
 
All the sound and fury surrrounding AG comes down to two things:

1. The starches in the grains will convert to sugar only in a narrow temperature range. (146-156F)
2. There is a balance between getting all of the sugars out of the grain and how much water you want to boil off.

The $60 rig you spotted will do the job and online software will tell you how much water to use.

All the rest of the noise is religion, ritual ;) and a chance to burn money on cool hardware.:ban:
 
Making a lauter-tun out of a cooler won't end up costing you much more $$ than the one you are looking at, although it is kind of a PITA to find all the right pieces at HomeLoweDepot. The advantage, though, is that one built with a cooler has VERY good temperature control.

I'm still pretty new at this, but one thing I know is that there are noticable differences in the end product if you mash at 156 instead of 150 (the former will be a lot sweeter). The tun I build, which is very much like the ones a lot of people here use, held heat extremely well. Pre-heat it ahead of time with some boiling/near-boiling water, and it loses maybe two degrees over the course of a half hour. You really can get your mash set up, close the cooler, and forget about it until it's time to stir again. No need to worry about constantly checking temp, or wrapping it in blankets, or any of that. No need to worry about the temp dropping out of the conversion range.

If you use a stainless steel braid, doing a batch sparge is CAKE, and there is very little chance of a stuck sparge (which I have heard is an issue with the kind you are looking at).

You actually can make one like the $60 model for about a third of that cost yourself; you just need two buckets, a drill, and a free afternoon. That's probably the cheapest way to go AG - but I'd highly recommend the cooler route. You may be able to find a good one (if you are truly going ALL grain instead of doing partial mashes, you may want one bigger than 5 gallons) on sale these days, anyway. My 5 gallon Rubbermaid was only $18 or $19 in Target at the height of the season.
 
jackle said:
I'm so frusterated and there is so much I dont understand about AG. I am going back to the extract forum and i'm not going to return here for a long time.

I recommend looking up your local Home Brew club, then asking for an All Grain Mentor. Offer to help with his next brew session.

The lessons learned are priceless. You get to see the equipment, ingredients, and experience the process. Do this before you spend any money and you will be on your way to All Grain Goodness and Happiness.
 
FWIW I got a 48 qt rectangular Igloo at Target for 14 buck. It did not have a spigot, but I was going to replace it with a ball valve anyway. I plan on finishing the build out this weekend, so I will let you know what the total cost was. I am shooting for less than $30.
 
Stove, big pot, rectangular cooler, bottling bucket w/ grain bag (5 gal paint strainer from Home Depot)and false bottom or steel wool pad of some kind, and a 6 gallon plastic 'fermenter bucket'. Mash in your virgin cooler, ladle into bottling bucket with a sauce pan. Drain (sparge) into your 6 gal fermenter, then pour into your pot when pot is empty of sparge water. I made one extract and 3-4 AG before upgrading:

Upgrade as you find mat'l- copper coils, bbq burner, carboys, turkey fryer, at garage sales or swap meet.

Actually, my first couple of AG's were mashed in one of those big portable electric roasters. Not fine temp control, but my friends drank the product...
 
I think some pictures are in order here rather than have everyone try to explain.

cooler.jpg

This is a 28qt igloo cooler that I mash in. (That is letting hot water & grain sit there for an hour.) This was in my garage - you might have something similar - if not, you can buy one for $15 max.

manifold.jpg


This is my copper manifold that sits in the bottom of the cooler. The slits cut in the bottom let me pull water through the grain without letting the grain through. I made it when copper was cheaper, total cost for me was $20. Since copper costs a lot more now, it might cost $35 now. You can make the exact same thing out of CPVC pipe with some slits cut in the bottom, or with a bunch of small holes drilled in the bottom. Some people use braided stainless steel hose to do the same thing - both are cheap & easy & effective. Notice that it has a spout that comes up to the top of the cooler - this way I didn't have to drill holes through my cooler for valves. Easier was better for me.

valve.jpg


This is the hose I attach to the manifold - I put a brass valve in the line to control how fast the sweet wort can go through the line. It is attached to the line with barb fittings. Cost: $10

kettles.jpg


These are my kettles. The one on the right is the turkey fryer - it is 30qts and has barely enough room in it to do a full boil. The one on the left is my old stainless brew kettle from when I did extract batches (20qt). Turkey fryer (pot & burner & stand) $50.

That's all you need - you probably already have a kettle, maybe two. You probably have a cooler already.

1. I heat water for the mash in my turkey fryer. (normally 1qt water to 1 lb of grain)

2. I add this water to the cooler (with the manifold on the bottom under the water).

3. I mix my crushed grains into that water & let it sit for an hour (in most cases).

4. During that hour I heat up my sparge water in my old 20qt brew kettle. (about 5 gallons to 170F normally)

5. I attach my tubing to the spout in the cooler.

6. I start a siphon on the tubing & slowly drain some of the water from the cooler - this gets collected in a 1qt measuring cup.

7. I pour that quart back onto the grain nicely and slowly (you can put a piece of tin foil on top of the grain so you don't disturb it much).

8. I recirculate 1qt at a time 3-4 times.

9. When the wort coming out of the cooler isn't clouded up with crap anymore I start siphoning into my turkey fryer.

10. As the water level in the cooler drops down I add my hot water from the 20qt kettle onto the tin foil in the grain. (try to keep 1-2 inches of water above the grain level.)

11. I continue adding the sparge water (the hot water you are adding to the grain) while draining until I have collected 6.5 gallons in the turkey fryer.

12. Boil the wort I collected in the turkey fryer just like extract.

The parts included in the bucket setup you referenced at the beginning cost $60 - for the equivalent parts my setup was cheaper - and it is also more effective because I can control the temperatures better.

Each of the steps I listed above have special names, and there is a lot of learning you can do about each step. For now, if you want to go all grain, learn as you go. You won't be able to get a good grasp of everything without doing it & learning from mistakes. Right now you should mash 1qt water to 1 lb grain for 1 hour at 150 degrees F. Heat your sparge water to 170, and try to collect 1 gallon of runoff every 5-10 minutes. That will make good beer. Specialize as you learn.
 
The only thing that I have to say about the buckets is that it might not hold in the heat as well as a cooler. Which is the reason why a lot of people use coolers.
 
EdWort said:
I recommend looking up your local Home Brew club, then asking for an All Grain Mentor. Offer to help with his next brew session.

The lessons learned are priceless. You get to see the equipment, ingredients, and experience the process. Do this before you spend any money and you will be on your way to All Grain Goodness and Happiness.
I second this! I don't know of a local club, but I took a day off of work tomorrow to help (again) with an experienced AG brewer's brew day.
 
Beer Snob said:
The only thing that I have to say about the buckets is that it might not hold in the heat as well as a cooler. Which is the reason why a lot of people use coolers.

Yeah my first AG setup was a bucket, and I wrapped it in an old blanket to hold in the heat. It did the job until I scrounged up enough scratch for a cooler.
 
ablrbrau said:
Yeah my first AG setup was a bucket, and I wrapped it in an old blanket to hold in the heat. It did the job until I scrounged up enough scratch for a cooler.

Now that Ablrbau joined in I want to add something he had told me a while ago. Get a larger cooler then the 5 gal water cooler.... of course I did not listen to him thinking when in the world will I want to do more then 12 pounds of grain.... well....fell in love with IPAs..... need 20 pounds or so of grain. So I got an Igloo Ice Cube at Walmart for 21 bucks.... 60 quarts. Another thing thats going to be nice is that I'll be able to put all the batch water in at one time, which is something I was not able to do with the 5 gal cooler.
 
Academy Sporting Goods sells the same 7.50 gallon turkey fry setup in stainless for under $ 50.00
You can upgrade to a 8.50 gallon s/s setup for another $ 15.00 or so.
Go with weldless fittings - s/s ball valve with upward looking s/s elbow on the inside on the boiling pot. Racking canes suck, and you leave behind all of the trub after you whirlpool.
 
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