Is this brewing pro misleading the home brewing masses?

[Brew_Nerd]

In his book "Brew Like a Pro", Dave Miller (formerly of Blackstone Brewery in Nashville) states that "beer is not like wine: it does not improve in the bottle, and is best drunk young.". This is contradictory to many posts I have seen in this forum. I just thought I would send this out to the home brewing masses and inquire: Do you think this is an accurate statement? Or do you think it's a gross generalization that may be true for some beers but not others? Discuss.

 

[evrose]

As a general statement, it's misleading at best, and downright false at worse.

Without context to the quote, it's hard to judge it. For example, was it in a chapter about IPA's and wheat beer? If so, the statement is more true. If it was in a statement about bourbon barrel aged Russian Imperial Stouts, it's completely false.

In other words, the real answer to this issue is:

It depends on the beer.

And then there's the issue of what he considers aging. By "young" does he mean one year? two? three? ten? Not even all wines age well on those timescales. Many wines are better after 3-4 years, and beyond that they don't do as well.

 

[chad_]

Many types of beers need some aging, lots of big beers fare better with aging as well as sours (over a year), but many hop forward beers are best young because as they age they lose hop flavor.

 

[corkybstewart]

Thee reality is that most wines are also best if consumed within 3 or 4 years, very few will actually continue to improve past that. If he had said "most beer" his statement would be true. And if you include BMC as beer it's safe to say that 90% of beer should be drunk immediately, as long as the mountains on the label stay blue.

 

[stpug]

I believe that there is validity in that statement, but not as a general rule for all beers. Beer is not much like wine at all besides they both contain alcohol. Many beers ARE best drunk young(ish) as opposed to aging for a few months - a vast majority IMHO. However, some beers definitely improve in the bottle by allowing higher alcohols to mellow and impart new characteristics.

 

[Curtis2010]

And, "young" is a very vague term...how young is young?

Where do you draw the line between "conditioning" and "aging"?

Obviously there are many beers that benefit from some extended conditioning time, be that weeks or months, but very few that benefit from years of aging.

 

[Gerhard]

There is a big difference between beers that have been filtered and carbonated by CO2 injection and bottle or keg conditioned beer (meaning primed and naturally carbonated).

Bottle condition beer may take 3-8 weeks (or more) to hit its prime, whilst centrifuged/filtered beer/CO2 injection beer starts to deteriorate after a few weeks.

 

[Teromous]

That book isn't really targeted for entry-level brewers, so I doubt that anyone who wanted to seriously utilize that book to its full potential would be offset by a few disagreeable comments here and there.

As far as that particular comment is concerned, I believe it's too broad to be accurate. Even wine would not be like wine if that statement were implying that all wine must be aged to enjoy.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, unless you were just bringing it out for the sake of having something to discuss.

 

[kh54s10]

I think it could have been worded better but it IMO is generally true. What is not relayed is the time frame and what styles of wines and beers age well. Red wines will age well and stay good for decades where the heavy beers might last for a few years to maybe a decade.

White wines and light beers are both better consumed young but the beer would be in months and the wine would be within a year.

 

[Yooper]

In his book "Brew Like a Pro", Dave Miller (formerly of Blackstone Brewery in Nashville) states that "beer is not like wine: it does not improve in the bottle, and is best drunk young.". This is contradictory to many posts I have seen in this forum. I just thought I would send this out to the home brewing masses and inquire: Do you think this is an accurate statement? Or do you think it's a gross generalization that may be true for some beers but not others? Discuss.

It's generally true.

Even the late great Michael Jackson (the beer guru, not the pop star) said, "If you see a beer, do it a favor, and drink it. Beer was not meant to age. -- Michael Jackson

I think that way too many people think that off-flavors will age out, given enough time. But if you fix the problems that create these off-flavors, and don't create them in the first place, there isn't any reason for extended aging for normal beers. The idea that a beer spends a month or more in the fermenter is unheard of by many homebrewers, and certainly in the pro brewing sector.

Many of my house ales, IPAs, ambers, cream ales, etc, with a gravity of 1.065 or under, are being consumed by day 21, and sometimes gone by then.

Some beer styles may benefit from a bit of aging- oaked beers, beers with complex flavors like with roasted or smoked malts, or a very high ABV beer- but most do not as a rule.

 

[Phunhog]

I think it is pretty much spot on for the vast majority of beer styles. A few exceptions would be Barleywines, Sours, and RIS. If you brew it right you shouldn't have to age your beer in most cases.

 

[TheSmithsEra]

Delete

 

[docpd]

I think it does depend on the beer and the type of conditioning. With my bottle conditioned beers I usually find that IPA's and Wheats are good at 2-3 weeks in the bottle and don't improve much from there. Porters, Stouts, and high ABV beers tend to be better at 8 weeks or more in the bottle, and many are still great after 18 months in the bottle.

 

[Curtis2010]

...

Even the late great Michael Jackson (the beer guru, not the pop star) said, "If you see a beer, do it a favor, and drink it. Beer was not meant to age. -- Michael Jackson

...

Thats oft quoted on this subject, but MJ did discuss in other writtings that bigger beers benefit from extended conditionig...so even his comment is not universally consistent.

 

[highgravitybacon]

I think that way too many people think that off-flavors will age out, given enough time. But if you fix the problems that create these off-flavors, and don't create them in the first place, there isn't any reason for extended aging for normal beers. The idea that a beer spends a month or more in the fermenter is unheard of by many homebrewers, and certainly in the pro brewing sector.

So true. Make it right the first time and it well be delicious without the wait. I don't think beer gets better. It just changes. And if that change is better is a matter of preference.

 

[Beernik]

I don't know where my copy of the book is. I bought it primarily for the DIY projects section. I think the world needs more homebrew DIY project books and fewer 100 homebrew recipes books.

I agree it's an overly general statement. Style matters. Storage conditions matter. Ingredients matter.

Most of my beers have a dozen bottles survive until their 1st birthday. Few of them, even the hefes suffer in that time. But I also don't brew a lot of high IBU and dry hopped beers.

I have had some commercial high IBU, dry hopped beers that got lost in my cellar for six months. They turned to crap.



I also disagree with the author that the first thing a homebrewer needs to do is invest a couple hundred dollars in a kegging system because that's the only proper way to enjoy beer. I've been happily bottling for 8 years.

 

[Cyclman]

I think many of the comments are spot on. Filtered beer is generally best young. Well made, typical gravity beers, also best young. Big / bottle conditioned beers, better with age. But really, even in Craft beer, what percentage of beers are big / bottle conditioned beers. A pretty small percentage.

I was a real wine geek back before children sucked up most of my income. The vast majority of wines are made for immediate consumption, probably less than one percent improve with age. And with modern styles, even many wine experts doubt the benefit of wine ageing. Some of that comes from old fashioned wine making, with too high tannins, where ageing was required to make the wine smooth. No longer necessary. Just like making most beer with modern science, no need to age it to make it drinkable if you have good process.

 

[KGB09]

It is In my opinion that there are very very few absolutes it brewing.

 

[taoisilent]

It is In my opinion that there are very very few absolutes in brewing.

True Story

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Does anyone else scroll down until they see yooper's reply...

I agree that some beers age well but most not really.

 

[Espresso]

The world of beer is far too big for such a broad generalization to be accurate.

 

[Gameface]

I've noticed a funny phenomenon. I make 10G batches. I also keg into 5G corny kegs. Sometimes I think a beer is improving with age...then the keg kicks. I Tap the second keg of the same beer and it's back to square one. As I drink it, it improves. I don't think age is the leading factor here.

 

[Homercidal]

Aging is variable. I don't think of a couple of months in a keg as aging. Most beers do not get better after a few weeks, if they are brewed using best practices.

But some very big beers are more like a wine or spirit and can usually benefit from several months to a couple of years of aging. The alcohols tend to become mellower and the strong character of some ingredients might mellow out as well.

I have noticed that I prefer my kegged beers about 2-3 weeks after kegging or carbing. After that there isn't a significant difference. But that keg is kept refrigerated, not like a bottle sitting on a warm shelf.

I'm going to have to go with the authors on this one. In general it's better to drink beer young. With the reservation that really big beers will definitely improve with some aging.

 

[Espressomattic]

I am not an expert, however my experience of working in cellars was this:

Marathons pedigree was rubbish after 4 days from tapping. Cask ales were/are no designed to age. Bottle conditioned beers in my opi ion are very similar. Very fresh beer will be too fresh for some, and they Are best laid down for a couple of weeks. Others really do need that extra time to round out the flavours.

I am drinking a brew I I my bottled two days ago. It is a bit too green for me and I know how it will improve over the next few weeks. But it is still a tasty beer all the same.

I think it boils down to preference really. I enjoy seeing how the beer develops over time...that's what I tell the Missus anyway

 

[Ayuir]

I've noticed a funny phenomenon. I make 10G batches. I also keg into 5G corny kegs. Sometimes I think a beer is improving with age...then the keg kicks. I Tap the second keg of the same beer and it's back to square one. As I drink it, it improves. I don't think age is the leading factor here.

Stop drinking the kegs in single sessions. :cross:
Whenever I drink, the beer always gets better with age also. Then I sober up and I'm back to square one.

 

[tugbucket]

I've noticed a funny phenomenon. I make 10G batches. I also keg into 5G corny kegs. Sometimes I think a beer is improving with age...then the keg kicks. I Tap the second keg of the same beer and it's back to square one. As I drink it, it improves. I don't think age is the leading factor here.

Yeah, I'm familiar with "the 4th one was better than the first" theory

 

[Beernik]

I just listened to the Beer Smith flavor stability podcast with Dr. Charlie Bamforth. He was saying that cold storage is the best thing you can do to improve flavor stability. Cold storage reduces the rate of chemical reactions that deteriorate flavors.

 

[Gameface]

Yeah, I'm familiar with "the 4th one was better than the first" theory

Haha, that's not what I'm saying. I think the clearest beer is at the top of the liquid column in the keg and that's the beer that tastes the best.

 

[BreezyBrew]

Does anyone else scroll down until they see yooper's reply...

I agree that some beers age well but most not really.

Right, it's like aging DFH 120. What's the point? The brewer didn't intend to brew a beer that people age for 6 and 7 years, so why do it?

I see beer ratings all the time of aged beer that say "soy sauce" or something of the like. That sounds completely unpalatable.

 

[smccarter]

In his book "Brew Like a Pro", Dave Miller (formerly of Blackstone Brewery in Nashville) states that "beer is not like wine: it does not improve in the bottle, and is best drunk young.". This is contradictory to many posts I have seen in this forum. I just thought I would send this out to the home brewing masses and inquire: Do you think this is an accurate statement? Or do you think it's a gross generalization that may be true for some beers but not others? Discuss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=y5Gkdk6bv7M#t=5

Mino Choi laughs at folks who brew beer and age it for a year. I have a high ABV Belgian Triple in bottles in my closet. I brewed it in June of last year. I think it's getting better, but watching this guy makes me wonder if I just brewed a bad beer that has to age to get better. My take on what he's saying is that if it's brewed correctly, it can be consumed relatively soon after brew date.

Of course, I'm not a brew master. Just wanted to include this in the discussion as it is related to the OP.

 

[CBXBob]

I've done porters that were good at 2 weeks in the bottle, really good at 4 weeks, freaking delicious at 2 months, never had any that lasted longer than that I'm doing a Brewery sour "Tart of Darkness" that is supposed to be dry hopped at 6 months in the fermenter

 

[The_Professor]

First off I think "aging" a beer to get rid of off flavors should be taken off any discussion about aging "good" beer. Those are really two different subjects.

I do notice that beers are different at all stages. I will sometimes taste wort and fermenting beer. I will taste when I take gravity samples, halfway through carbonation and as soon as it is carbonated. If the beer is not so good that I want to drink it every night until it is gone I might let it age some.

The flavor in a young beer and an aged beer are different. And as far as aging, I'm not going to pretend I have experience aging my own beers even as much as a year. To me the flavors in a beer aged months rather than weeks are usually "blended and smoothed" better. High alcohol content becomes less hot after aging and oaked beer becomes less "woody" with more vanilla.

Does every beer taste better if you keep it in your basement for 5 years? I'd have to think not.