Is this an Irish Red?

[WickedLB]

I have been trying to formulate a recipe for an Irish Red style beer, but I also wanted to experiment a little with using rye in a batch. Have I gone too far off the reservation here? Will this be too far off style wise to call it an Irish red?

5.0 gallons
Original Gravity: 1.059 (1.052 to 1.061)
Final Gravity: 1.016 (1.014 to 1.017)
Color: 13° SRM (Copper to Red/Lt. Brown)
Bitterness: 4.9 HBU 14.4 IBU
Alcohol: 5.7% A.B.V. 4.4% A.B.W.

Fermentables
6.4# Amber Malt Extract Syrup
1#American Crystal 60L
0.74# Flaked Rye
0.5# Honey

Hops
Bittering 1.0 oz East Kent Goldings
Aroma 0.5 oz East Kent Goldings

Yeast
Irish Ale (WLP004)

 

[moonbrew]

Stylistically, I'd have to say... no.

According to the BJCP style guidelines...

Ingredients: May contain some adjuncts (corn, rice, or sugar), although excessive adjunct use will harm the character of the beer. Generally has a bit of roasted barley to provide reddish color and dry roasted finish. UK/Irish malts, hops, yeast.

I think you're going to need some roasted barley, and maybe some dark crystal as well, and to be authentic you might change out the amber extract to English Pale Malt Extract and let your specialty grains do your coloring.

As for the rye, I don't think that is typically used for the style... But, its your beer...

Here is an award winning Irish Red Ale recipe that I just brewed, not my award, but none the less award winning...

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.97 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 17.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 23.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.25 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 90.87 %
0.38 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 3.07 %
0.38 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.03 %
0.38 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.03 %
1.25 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 23.3 IBU
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Irish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1084) Yeast-Ale

 

[WickedLB]

Thanks moonbrew, that is what I was afraid of. So basically I have an Amber Ale recipe, but I have lost the Irish. So now the question is:

Do I brew what I have so I can learn about adding rye or do lighten up the LME, go darker on the Crystal and add Roasted Barley to get closer to style guidelines? I'll have to let this idea ferment a few days.

 

[Diablotastic]

I've also wanted to use Rye in a recipe....I got a House Pale Ale that i used 2lbs of Rye in.....keggin it tomorrow..I'm wondering how much contribution 2lbs of Rye will make to a 5 gallon batch.

 

[WickedLB]

Diablotastic, from what I have read it is all based on % of rye in your batch. I intentionally left my rye around 10% to see if I could get the crispness and see what other character came through. This BYO article talks a bit about the character of rye and what happens when you add various amounts.

http://byo.com/stories/recipes/article/indices/34-grains/329-brewing-with-rye-tips-from-the-pros

 

[Gremlyn]

Add in some roasted barley to get the colour and taste that, IMO, is required for an Irish Red and then with the rye... call it a Rye-rish Red.

 

[WickedLB]

OK, now I can show my noob-ness. I want to maintain the color, so I went to Beer Calculus and replaced the Amber Extract for Light LME and added roasted barley. But barley adds a lot of color, how much will I need to add to get the flavor to come through?

Will 2oz of roasted barley add enough flavor?
Would Pilsner Liquid extract + 4 oz of roasted barley be better?

 

[the_bird]

It doesn't take a lot, the two ounces with a regular light DME should get you damn close to the color you want. Many people will grind up the roasted barley extra-fine (think; coffee mill) to maximize the color extraction. If you want to be on the darker side of red but not add much roastiness, you can also look at some of the Carafe Special (de-husked) dark malts, which add color but very little roasty flavor.

A darker crystal malt - even like four ounces of a Special B or a Crystal 120° - will also add a lot of color and a lot of malt complexity. The darker crystal malts add a dark-fruitiness (raisens/prunes) that can be quite nice. Doesn't take a lot, though.

 

[Diablotastic]

Interesting read Wicked...thanks....I'm not at my home pc but If I remeber correctly...mine % is about 16 - 17 % Rye

Although I didn't crush them separtly...my Corona tears em up pretty good...I think next time i may adjust in the mill or most likely run the rye through seperatly a few times to ensure good crushing

 

[Gremlyn]

I used either 6oz or 8oz in my last Irish Red, bumped up from 4oz because I couldn't taste it enough, but I really like the flavour, so that's just me. 2oz I don't think will get you enough in a 5 gal batch, I'd go at least 4oz.

 

[WickedLB]

Gremlyn1, was it red at 6oz/8oz?
My fear is anything above 4 would end up being a brown ale rather than a red.

 

[Gremlyn]

Yep, I was previously doing about 2oz crystal 120L, 12oz crystal 80L and 4oz roasted barley and it had a nice red colour (this is the recipe in my sig). I changed it to only 12oz 10L and 8oz roasted barley. I don't know how the flavour will compare yet, but the taste when I racked to keg held promise and the colour looked good. that recipe is here:
http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/recipe/f9f14985/crafty-gremlyn-brewing-irish-red

I wasn't going to change the recipe in the database yet until I knew the changes were for the better

 

[WickedLB]

Gremlyn1, Thank you for the feedback! I wanted to be in the 9-18 SRM range so I am thinking that I will try the following recipe:

5.0 gallons
Original Gravity: 1.060 (1.053 to 1.062)
Final Gravity: 1.016 (1.014 to 1.017)
Color: 17° SRM (Dark Red/Brown)
Bitterness: 4.9 HBU 13.9 IBU
Alcohol: 5.9% A.B.V. 4.6% A.B.W.

Fermentables
6.4# Pale Malt Extract Syrup
0.75#American Crystal 60L
14oz Flaked Rye
0.5# Honey
5oz Roasted Barley
Hops
Bittering 1.0 oz East Kent Goldings
Aroma 0.5 oz East Kent Goldings

Yeast
Irish Ale (WLP004)

The bitterness is still below style guidelines, but it is not supposed to be particularly hoppy so I think its OK. If I add all of the hops at the beginning I will hit the IBU criteria, so I may do that.

Thoughts?

 

[moonbrew]

Now you're very close to the "style" if that is what you are looking for.

I would add all the hops at the begging like you said in the last post, that will give you the style bitterness, ...Irish Red has low to no present hop aroma anyway.

Don't forget to come back and post in a month or two and let us know how this thing turned out.

 

[Gremlyn]

Is that honey or honey malt? Honey malt can easily overtake in flavour, and might drown out the roasted barley a little and you'll already be competeing that against the rye. If it's regular honey, I'm not sure what purpose it serves...?

As for the hops, why not just add them all at the 60 min mark and call it good. You're not looking to get much, if any hop aroma out of this anyway. Other than that, I think it sounds like an interesting experiment!

 

[WickedLB]

Gremyn1, it is honey not honey malt. I have seen this and a handful of Red recipes and I have it on hand so I figured I would add it to boost fermentables. Since I was already thinking about adding all the hops at 60 and both you and moonbrew think it is a good idea, that is what I will do! I will go to the LHBS tomorrow or wednesday and brew this week.

Thanks for all of the help and I will definitely post updates!

 

[WickedLB]

Brewed it up tonight! Right now it appears more light/medium brown than red, but I'll see how the color develops over the next few weeks. I read 1.054 for my OG which is low but still in BeerCalculus range. I do not have a great record on taking OG, because I do not make full boils and the water leads to strata.

I'll try to take a picture when I bottle to show how close to red it is.

 

[Gremlyn]

Colour is hard to determine until it is in the glass, so no worries there.

 

[Diablotastic]

Just racked my Rye Pale Ale to the Keg Monday.....definatly a reddish color....and the tasting was relatively spicy...I'll let you know how the 1st glass is in a week or two.

BTW...what part of Worcester you from....I'm in Northbridge.....15-20mins SE of you

 

[WickedLB]

Diablotastic I am actually in Holden, just North of Worcester.

Where do you buy your brewing ingredients? I go to the Home Brew Emporium in West Boylston, but was curious if there were other good places around that I should check out.

 

[Diablotastic]

Yeah i've been to that shop before...another place I go more frequently is Strange Brew in Marlboro....prices are comparible...similar selection...guy always has some homebrew on tap to sample which is nice

For the most part I try and do my ordering online if i can....it's generally cheaper then the LHBS

 

[Drumhaggart]

Try NFG Homebrew in Leominster
http://www.nfghomebrew.com
Best grain prices, but shortest hours.

or Strange Brew in Marlborough
http://www.home-brew.com
Very close to work for me and pretty good hours.

Homebrew Emporium (http://www.beerbrew.com) has one guy there that tends to offer a bit too much unsolicited advice, but not bad enough to make me avoid the place. Good weekend hours.

I like them all, but I probably spend more money at NFG

-steve
(Lancaster)

 

[WickedLB]

Steve,
Thanks for the info! I will have to check out NFG during one of their few hours of operation (14.5 hours a week?!) I know the guy you ate talking about at Homebrew Emporium. He has actually been helpful for me as a noob, especially when I first went to put together a recipe and pick out yeast. He has also weighed out smaller bags of grains for me a few times when needed.

Like you and Strange Brew, the Homebrew Emporium is on my way home, and only about a 10 minute drive away. Their hours seem to be perfect for me too.

 

[Diablotastic]

Wow....NFG is crazy cheap for a LHBS...may have have to consider a stop up there sometime.

 

[WickedLB]

Bottled tonight. Hit 1.019 so ~4.5% ABV. The color is very dark red (OK it looks more brown than red) but I am hopeful that with carbonation and in a glass, the red color come through.

For flavor, the rye adds a nice, subtle spiciness and a faint whiskey like aroma. This is the first time I've brewed with rye, but I think that I am going to end up with an interesting and easy drinking ale when all is done. Thanks for all the help putting this one together.