Is there such thing as a brew curse?

[wallyfrog]

I love beer and originally got into brewing as a hobby. I mainly tried extract kits to start of. My first batch tasted good and it got me excited to keep going. Well, it's been 8 or 9 wasted lots since, all dumped down the drain.
I'm an educated person(7 years university) and my inability to produce a drinkable beer is driving me crazy. I am very meticulous when following instructions. I've been washing and sanitizing everything 3 times. I've tried half my brews in primary then secondary, the other half in primary only. I've followed all the readings. I always seem to get a beer that's always off.
I've tried coopers, brew house, barons and mutons. I've tried spring water vs tap water. One time I get a beer that's cider tasting, another that tastes like chemicals, another that tastes like water, others that won't carbonate. I have given up, a couple years ago, but I'm determined to get it right.
Any possible ideas why my brew is not turning out? Haha. I use those garbage pail looking primary fermenters with the lose fitting lids. They are the only ones available in my area. They are also stained and have a beer scent. I have two cats, but they don't really hang around the fermenting beer. Could these be possible reasons? And yes, I leave the beers for 2-3 months in bottle before dumping it out.
I have purchased a Kegerator and hoping this might be a fix. It was hard having bottles stored away with little ones running around.

 

[slym2none]

Is there such thing as a brew curse?

Nope.

 

[N4teTheGreat]

When you wash and sanitize, what are you using? I found that my brew bucket held onto color and odor from the previous fermentation until I gave it a good soak / wash with powdered brewers wash and a scrub with a soft cloth (don't use anything abrasive or you risk scratching the bucket which can harbor nasties.

Aside from that, do you take notes for each recipe you brew in order to be able to look back on what you did to see if part of your process was the issue? To be clear, I've only brewed a few batches so far myself so most of this is stuff I've gleaned by reading this forum obsessively.

-- Nathan

 

[wallyfrog]

The solution I use is called Sparkle-Brite. It was the only solution sold at the local brew stores where I live. I only used a cloth to prevent small abrasions left on the fermenter. I've been reading these forums a lot. It's one of the reasons it keeps pissing me off that my brew doesn't turn out. It seem so simple, yet I'm always disappointed when I try the finish product. I almost think that it's in my head, but I have had others try it and they agreed about the terrible taste lol.

 

[mongoose33]

This is just a theory, but I suspect contamination.

You say your first batch tasted good, but since then no good.

That first brew would have been with equipment that was clean; since then, maybe not so much?

I don't know sparkle-brite; is it a cleaner or a sanitizer? I looked online, the only thing I could find was a glass cleaner.

Can you send away for some star-san?

Anyway, I suspect contamination.

 

[wallyfrog]

That sounds like a good way to go. I did find a place relatively close that will ship star-San. I currently have a another batch on the go. I'll see how that one turns out, but I think a safe bet would be to order the star san

 

[Subdivisions]

That sounds like a good way to go. I did find a place relatively close that will ship star-San. I currently have a another batch on the go. I'll see how that one turns out, but I think a safe bet would be to order the star san

This is exactly what I was going to say. I don't know what sparkle-brite is but I bet it's just a cleaner and not a sanitizer. Get the Star-San and your brewing life will be transformed.

When you use star-san make a 1 gallon batch in your fermenter then shake it around and let it sit then shake it up some more. Don't fill the whole thing up, it's a waste. Then take a spray bottle and fill it from the fermenter and use that to spray sanitize things like your racking equipment, bottles, anything that will touch the wort/beer after the boil.

 

[Minky]

When you use star-san make a 1 gallon batch in your fermenter then shake it around and let it sit then shake it up some more. Don't fill the whole thing up, it's a waste. Then take a spray bottle and fill it from the fermenter and use that to spray sanitize things like your racking equipment, bottles, anything that will touch the wort/beer after the boil.

This is what I do, also. A one gallon batch only requires 6 ml of the Starsan, which is just a bit more than a teaspoon. I use one of those droppers for giving kids medicine. If you make your Starsan solution with distilled water, it will have a much longer shelf life.

Do not rinse after using.

 

[mongoose33]

While you're at it, you might get some good cleaner--or at least make sure your equipment is clean before you sanitize it. You want unscented cleaner--sometimes people might use dish soap, but it needs to be unscented, and you have to make sure you are completely rinsed.

I bought PBW (powdered brewery wash) for cleaning, and star-san for sanitizing.

I'd give everything a real good cleaning prior to sanitizing. Rinse really good, then rinse again, then sanitize.

 

[bucfan1234]

Good recommendations. Try the star san. It is great.

I would also recommend trying a different fermenting vessel. A cheap easy one to try would be a PET 1 5 gallon water jug with a stopper and airlock. Brew up a four gallon batch of BYO 6 day mild, ferment it out in a week in a cat free location, bottle and carb for a quick test run.

If it turns out, then you have taken a step in isolating your problem. If not, the batch only cost you about $14.

 

[IslandLizard]

+1^ Good cleaning is important. So is sanitation.

PBW is 30% sodium metasilicate (a TSP substitute) and 70% "Oxiclean," you can compound your own if you want. Many use generic, odor free "Oxiclean" for routine cleaning, and "PBW" when it need the extra oomph.

For most brew equipment cleaning I simply use washing soda (sodium carbonate), which is similar to Oxiclean which becomes washing soda after releasing its oxygen.

Agreed with the responders above, sanitation is key and Starsan is probably the easiest and best. Although many swear by Iodophor or IO-Star, which are Iodine based, the working solution degrades quickly. Starsan remains active for months.

Kits can be good, mediocre or worse. The fancier the brand or packaging and the more hype, the worse the content, usually. Some kits contain cans of "hopped extract" which is among the most foul tasting ingredients one can "brew" with.

If you have a local homebrew store you can likely buy top quality loose ingredients to fill any recipe. There are many good and tested recipes out here. All you need is dry (or liquid) malt extract, hops, and yeast. Now you can brew much richer tasting beer if you also steep some specialty malts (a large variety of malted and differently roasted grain) in addition to using malt extract. Unless you brew Belgian style ales, forget adding sugar to your wort. It doesn't add any flavor, only alcohol.

As long as your drinking water is good you can use it for brewing. If it's chlorinated (most domestic water is) you need to treat it with 1/4 crushed Campden tablet per 5 gallons of water. Just stir it in for a minute and it's ready.

If you're brewing 1 or 2 gallon batches, it's very easy to brew all-grain instead of using extract. It's a bit more work and takes more time, but you can make any beer you want. Mash the grains in a large pot placed in a pre-heated oven. Drain and rinse through a colander.

If you're not familiar with Palmer's book How to Brew, read it. Here's the link to the web edition, but it's an older version, and a bit outdated.

 

[GHBWNY]

"I use those garbage pail looking primary fermenters with the lose fitting lids. They are the only ones available in my area. They are also stained and have a beer scent."

Sounds like your problem is more universal than particular to each batch. How "loose fitting" are these lids? And did you purchase them with stains and a beer scent already in them? IOW, were they new or used? Either way, it sounds quite possible your ferm bucket (which is universal to all your batches) could be your problem. Lid looseness is not as much a problem during active ferm when CO2 is pushing out, but from there on, a loose-fitting lid can let in contaminants. And the stain and scent isn't unusual, and you say you are cleaning and sanitizing, but I wonder if your buckets are food-grade? If not, there could be contaminants imbedded in the plastic that simply are not being removed by conventional cleaning/sanitizing and they're spoiling your beer.

I would go online and invest in a brand-new, good quality ferm bucket and lid from a reputable supplier like Northern Brewer, Midwest Supplies, BSG, etc. and see where it takes you.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah, I wonder what kind of buckets they are too. Anything that's referred to as "garbage pail" should stay where it belongs.

They should be food grade, HDPE #2 preferably, usually white or translucent with no BPA. That loose lid could be a problem, causing oxidation and infection. What size batches are you brewing? How much volume are your pails? Hard to imagine what you're using.

You've been on this forum since 2010, how much reading have you done and applied that wisdom to the equipment and methods you use? When I started to brew beer I jumped in big time, but it took me a few years to understand how to brew good beer, and still find ways to improve, daily!

 

[Firewalker11]

There are at least three home brew shops in Alberta, they all ship and sell online. Get some real equipment, at least a bucket and sealed lid and a three piece bubbler.

 

[b-boy]

How are you controlling fermentation temperatures? I think water quality, oxygenation, and ferm temps are probably the most critical factors in brewing. Try to get a little more control over each one every time you brew. Pretty soon you'll see improvements in the final product.

 

[wallyfrog]

The pails I use are 50L and were purchased at a homebrew store advertised as a primary fermenter. They were new and the lids fit on the top, but air could easily get inside and out. I just ordered some star-San and I'm looking to order a couple of new pails with tight fitting lids/air locks.
As for temperature, it's relitively cool in my basement, about 62 degrees. I have a brewing warming blanket wrapped around my brewing bucket, about and inch away from touching the bucket. This keeps the temperature at about 68 degrees.
Thanks for all of the ideas, everyone. I'm going to try my next batch with new buckets, clean clean clean then sanitize with star San.
As a side note, has anyone tried Paddock Wood brewing kits? That's a kit I started a couple days ago. They are from a brewery in Saskatchewan. They are a full 23L wort and all you do is add yeast. Seems pretty simple. I'm going to try a couple of them to see if I can get it right and get more adventurous after that. They seem pretty fool proof.

 

[Firewalker11]

A couple of points that may/may not have been covered: Don't open the pail, put a "bottle filler" spout on the *bottom and draw your samples out that way. You cant get any off flavors from free yeast, mold that way. Fill the three piece with starsan or vodka, if it gets sucked in, no big deal. Finally, mind what goes into the pail, any water that could impart a flavor has to be kept out, even your wash water.

 

[IslandLizard]

The pails I use are 50L and were purchased at a homebrew store advertised as a primary fermenter. They were new and the lids fit on the top, but air could easily get inside and out. I just ordered some star-San and I'm looking to order a couple of new pails with tight fitting lids/air locks.

Strange to sell non-sealable buckets as fermentors. After the primary slows down, air, dust and bacteria can enter the headspace just by ambient airflow.
With well-closed buckets, do not lift the lid until you're ready to rack. It really prevents problems.

As for temperature, it's relitively cool in my basement, about 62 degrees. I have a brewing warming blanket wrapped around my brewing bucket, about and inch away from touching the bucket. This keeps the temperature at about 68 degrees.

Actually 62-65 degrees is really good for the first few days to a week until the (primary) fermentation has slowed down significantly. Then ramping it up to say 65-68 for another week or 2 helps to finish it. You could stick the buckets in a larger tote filled with water, like a huge heat sink, to keep the temps at 62-65F and from fluctuating too much.

Thanks for all of the ideas, everyone. I'm going to try my next batch with new buckets, clean clean clean then sanitize with star San.
As a side note, has anyone tried Paddock Wood brewing kits? That's a kit I started a couple days ago. They are from a brewery in Saskatchewan. They are a full 23L wort and all you do is add yeast. Seems pretty simple. I'm going to try a couple of them to see if I can get it right and get more adventurous after that. They seem pretty fool proof.

The foam is your friend!

I think I'd warned about those "no boil" kits already. If "All you do is add yeast," you're not brewing! Please re-read what I wrote before and start digging around on this site for proven extract recipes. There are 1000s of them and none use hopped extracts.

Simple extract brew:

1. Boil half of your (non-hopped) dissolved extract with (real) bittering hops (e.g., Warrior, Magnum, Nugget, whatever) for 40-50 minutes*
2. Add flavoring and aroma hops and boil another 10-20 minutes
3. After a total of 60 minutes boiling, turn the flame off
4. Add the rest of your (non-hopped) extract, and stir well to dissolve it
5. Chill, rack to sanitized fermentor, top up with water if needed, and pitch your (re-hydrated) yeast
6. Use a large sanitized whisk to aerate for a minute or 2
7. Snap the lid on and insert the airlock.
8. Place in temperature controlled environment around 62-65°F (Actual temperature required depends on yeast)

* Steeping some specialty grains and adding that liquor to your wort can give your beer more character.

 

[GHBWNY]

I love beer and originally got into brewing as a hobby. ...8 or 9 wasted lots since, all dumped down the drain. ...I'm an educated person(7 years university) and my inability to produce a drinkable beer is driving me crazy.

See, there's your problem. You presume because you went to college, you have been imbued with some kind of innate ability to brew beer. I am also an educated person with a Master of Science degree, but the only thing I learned about beer in college was how to DRINK it.

 

[Firewalker11]

See, there's your problem. You presume because you went to college, you have been imbued with some kind of innate ability to brew beer. I am also an educated person with a Master of Science degree, but the only thing I learned about beer in college was how to DRINK it.

I am a complete retard and un-edgeamicated and I can make beer, so can you, Wllayfrog!

 

[stratslinger]

As for temperature, it's relitively cool in my basement, about 62 degrees. I have a brewing warming blanket wrapped around my brewing bucket, about and inch away from touching the bucket. This keeps the temperature at about 68 degrees.

Of course, it depends on the yeast you're using, but this is a very plausible cause for some of the issues you're reporting. Cider flavors in particular, and sometimes some chemical flavors, can be generated by fermenting too warm - and believe it or not that's likely what you're doing.

Most typical American Ale strains are really happy in the low- to mid-60's. Add to the equation the fact that fermentation is exothermic (it generates heat) and your fermenter is likely 5-10 degrees warmer than ambient temperatures. So... if your ambient is 62, you'll ferment somewhere between 67 and 72 at the height of activity - if you can keep it closer to the 67, you're on your way to cleaner fermentations and better finished beer.

Warm that fermenter up to 68 or so by wrapping it up, and fermentation will likely bring the active temperature up to 73 to 78 - where you're likely to generate some cider-like flavors, along with a whole host of others.

 

[GHBWNY]

I am a complete retard and un-edgeamicated and I can make beer, so can you, Wllayfrog!

Some mathematicians and scientists reading this may disagree, but as far as I can tell, there is no correlation between any form of [formal] education and one's ability to brew good beer. Brewing itself is the one and only 'education' that works when it comes to making good beer.

 

[m00ps]

Some mathematicians and scientists reading this may disagree, but as far as I can tell, there is no correlation between any form of [formal] education and one's ability to brew good beer. Brewing itself is the one and only 'education' that works when it comes to making good beer.

I think the only real factors are your willingness to learn and your drive to brew. Ive seen a lot of people around these forums that seem very intelligent. A lot smarter than me, but their arrogance just makes them disregard anything that doesnt line up with their preconceived notions. Ive also seen a lot of people who's job alone should qualify them as at least above average intelligence but are pretty damn stupid (me for instance, i pretend to engineer things)

 

[mongoose33]

I think the only real factors are your willingness to learn and your drive to brew. Ive seen a lot of people around these forums that seem very intelligent. A lot smarter than me, but their arrogance just makes them disregard anything that doesnt line up with their preconceived notions. Ive also seen a lot of people who's job alone should qualify them as at least above average intelligence but are pretty damn stupid (me for instance, i pretend to engineer things)

One of the things that attracted me to this is that I like learning things, and this promises to have a good, long learning curve.

But that's in learning the esoterica; the basics aren't so awful terribly hard to figure out, and from that one should (I hope) be able to brew good beer. It's the learning of how different factors interact to produce this result or that result which is going to take a while.

And you're right--sometimes what makes sense only makes sense in the context of ignorance. Logically you can argue almost anything, which makes logic, by itself, not that useful without evidence.

 

[GHBWNY]

I think the only real factors are your willingness to learn and your drive to brew.

You hit the proverbial nail on its proverbial little head!

 

[wallyfrog]

My only purpose of mentioning education is to show that I'm willing to read/learn/experiment etc. Learning something new usually comes easy to me, which is why extract brewing has been driving me so crazy. I've read many forums, sites, blogs and for the most part, I seem to be doing everything right.

I will get into brewing with partial mashes or all grains, but I don't want to put that extra work into brewing when the simple kits seem to fail. I want to determine if there's something wrong with my surroundings/environment, my equipment or practices before moving to that way of brewing.

 

[ChelisHubby]

Wally ask or look for a brewing partner in your area. It could help you learn things much quicker and cheaper.

 

[Firewalker11]

One of the things that attracted me to this is that I like learning things, and this promises to have a good, long learning curve.

But that's in learning the esoterica; the basics aren't so awful terribly hard to figure out, and from that one should (I hope) be able to brew good beer. It's the learning of how different factors interact to produce this result or that result which is going to take a while.

And you're right--sometimes what makes sense only makes sense in the context of ignorance. Logically you can argue almost anything, which makes logic, by itself, not that useful without evidence.

 

[mongoose33]

Wally ask or look for a brewing partner in your area. It could help you learn things much quicker and cheaper.

This is a great idea!

A friend of mine homebrews, and he was going to do a batch; I asked him if I could watch him do it, and so I did. It turned out the process was almost identical--steeping grain, preheating malt extract, boiling, transferring and so on. A good model.

It really demystified the process for me, so when it came time to start, I was much more confident.

That doesn't mean I didn't screw up--I did. But the quality of the mistake was much better.

 

[dwhite60]

I'd brew a few gallon batches in glass bottles before trying another 5 gallon batch. If you can do this successfully you'll get your confidence back to start.

I'm going to curse myself here, I've got some old buckets and have never had a problem. I've got the original bucket I bought in 1990. Don't use it but I'd feel confident using it if I had to. My regular bucket is three years old at least.

You got to find some sealed buckets.

All the Best,
D. White