Is sanitizing solution sufficient for cleaning?

[greg75]

I'm getting ready to bottle my first batch today, and I've come across some general cleaning/sanitation questions. First of all, when I first got my equipment kit, I washed everything with soap and water. I wanted to get a scent free detergent to do this, but I couldn't find any, so I just used the dishsoap that my wife buys. I was somewhat concerned about this, but I rinsed as thoroughly as can be expected afterwards. I figured sanitizing afterwards would also help neutralize any soap film left behind.

Well, I just bought a new equipment kit from a different LHBS last night, and their instructions say to never use soap to clean equipment, as soap film can ruin the head on a brew (I have noticed this when pouring beer into my pint glasses at home...almost no head retention). I assume they were implying that washing with sanitizing solution alone is sufficient. In my mind, the sanitizing solution is great for killing the little nasties left behind after a good dishwashing, but isn't soap necessary to clean away all the dirt that bacteria thrive in in the first place? Maybe I'm wrong, and the sanitizer accomplishes removing the dirt as well?

I don't know, but when I cleaned my primary bucket after racking, I have a very hard time believing iodophor solution would have been very effective in removing some of the crud left in the bucket!

 

[the_bird]

One-step is supposed to be a cleaner, but I wouldn't use either Iodophor or Star San to actually clean. You *can* use a bleach solution to clean your bucket, as long as you are uber-vigilent about rinsing it afterwards.

 

[greg75]

One-step is supposed to be a cleaner, but I wouldn't use either Iodophor or Star San to actually clean. You *can* use a bleach solution to clean your bucket, as long as you are uber-vigilent about rinsing it afterwards.

So, One-Step is meant to be a cleaner and sanitizer in one? More than just a clever name, I guess. :cross: I'll have to look into picking some of this up.

In fact, the instructions on the ingredient sheet said One-Step is the best sanitizer available. I just bought a big bottle of iodophor, however. Is this not as great as I was led to believe?

 

[the_bird]

I like Iodophor, it's cheap, easy to use, you really don't even have to worry about letting it dry all the way. I just know that One-Step is specifically labeled as a cleaner (and not, if you notice, as a sanitizer).

 

[brewie]

Where I would never use soap and water is for bottle or carboy cleaning. Too hard to rinse properly. Normally hot water and a brush works fine to get rid of trub residue, then be religious on sanitizing with Iodophor. StarSan solution is also good to get rid of labels. Good luck!

 

[greg75]

Where I would never use soap and water is for bottle or carboy cleaning. Too hard to rinse properly. Normally hot water and a brush works fine to get rid of trub residue, then be religious on sanitizing with Iodophor. San-A solution is also good to get rid of labels. Good luck!

Well, I've washed every bottle I'm going to be using today with soap! Really, though, I had no other choice. 48 of the 51 bottles I have ready for today were returnable bottles I got from a local liquor store. And, believe me, these bottles were in a sad state of affairs! 25-30% had cigarette butts in them, and every single one had beer (or backwash, more likely) in it. I rinsed very thoroughly, and I can't smell any soap in the bottles, but I'm guessing there is still some film in there. My hope is that when I sanitize the bottles, that will remove the soap film.

I've read that baking the bottles in an oven will actually sterilize the bottles. I wonder if the heat would take care of any soap films?

 

[Walker]

I wouldn't use either Iodophor or Star San to actually clean.

Star-san is a cleaner as well as a santizer.

-walker

 

[user 4295]

Star-San is not marketed as a cleaner. It is strictly just an acid based sanitizer. Here is a link to the Tech Sheet from Five Star Chemicals, the maker of Star-San.

John

 

[Walker]

Star-San is not marketed as a cleaner. It is strictly just an acid based sanitizer. Here is a link to the Tech Sheet from Five Star Chemicals, the maker of Star-San.

John

I've read the tech sheet. Let me quote one particular section, which makes it pretty clear that you can use it for cleaning:

COMPLIANCE
Star San is authorized by the U.S. Department of Agriculture for use as a general cleaning agent in official meat, poultry, rabbit, and egg processing establishments

 

[user 4295]

The problem that I have with that Walker is that in every description of use, the makers say to pre-clean with a dedicated cleaner before using Star-San. They also do not note what the concentration should be if used as a cleaner. Do you know at what ppm Star-San should be mixed at to be used as a cleaner? It certainly would not be the 1 oz/5 gal no rinse ratio. I also believe that Star-San is too expensive to be used in that way. There are much more economical choices out there, like PBW or Oxyclean.

John

 

[Walker]

The problem that I have with that Walker is that in every description of use, the makers say to pre-clean with a dedicated cleaner before using Star-San. They also do not note what the concentration should be if used as a cleaner. Do you know at what ppm Star-San should be mixed at to be used as a cleaner? It certainly would not be the 1 oz/5 gal no rinse ratio. I also believe that Star-San is too expensive to be used in that way. There are much more economical choices out there, like PBW or Oxyclean.

John

I'd to open the doc again to be sure, but I believe that they simply said that before you can sanitize something, you must clean it. They never say that you can't also do the cleaning with star-san.

I don't use star-san myself, so I can't say, but I agree that it's probably expensive to use as a cleaner. I just use dish-soap and iodophor.

brew on

edit: I do see that they keep saying "suitable detergent" in there, but that compliance section seems to trump everything. *shrug*

 

[user 4295]

I hate to nit pick, but they do say to use a "suitable cleaner" and to follow that cleaners instruction label. I think that if they meant for you to use Star-San as the cleaning agent, they would have specifically said so.

John

 

[Walker]

I hate to nit pick

Me, too.

-walker

 

[kornkob]

Of course, what 'clean' means in tenrms of cleaning and sanitation is 'visibly free of dirt, grime and food particles'. It's possible to clean a surface just with a lot of elbow grease and rinsing with water depending on how unclean it is.

 

[bikebryan]

I've read the tech sheet. Let me quote one particular section, which makes it pretty clear that you can use it for cleaning:

COMPLIANCE
Star San is authorized by the U.S. Department of Agriculture for use as a general cleaning agent in official meat, poultry, rabbit, and egg processing establishments

I've had this discussion with you before. I've read this, and it satisfies me when I'm working with meat, poultry, rabbit and egg processing.

However, last I checked, none of this is in any brew I've ever made.

 

[the_bird]

You aren't making Papa Charlie's Cock Ale?

 

[Beer Snob]

You aren't making Papa Charlie's Cock Ale?

Yeah! Do it! I can just see the label......(easy Cheesefood )