Is no rolling boil bad?
- Thread starter Maegnar
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DrWill, I am not trying to be argumentative, do some research on the effects of aluminum absorbed in the body. People use products for example that are bad for you such as baking powder with aluminum added, or underarm deodorant containing aluminum oxide. Continual cooking of any kind in aluminum can cause problems. One of the big ones is early stages of Alzheimers. If I could only remember what else, LOL.
DrWill
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johnnv said:
I'm afraid you've bought into an urban legend, John.
If those legends were correct, we'd all have Alzheimer's by now since aluminum is used in cooking pots in almost ever restaurant in the world. (Oh no! Maybe we do and haven't noticed!)
Once that passive oxide layer forms you're getting next to zero aluminium in your beer. John Palmer writes:
"There is more aluminum in a common antacid tablet than would be present in a batch of beer made in an aluminum pot."
It's perfectly safe and makes a great brewing vessel.
NivekD
Well-Known Member
WHOA!!!...let's not open that can o worms again please...
FATC1TY
Well-Known Member
You can google it and find the real info on it, but you've been duped by old folklore and fear mongering.
Aluminum is fine for brewing, and cooking. Oxidized layer will completely seal it up after the first use and it's perfectly fine.
SS is easier to clean, but aluminum works just as good for a low cost alternative.
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You can't understand him for that reason and I just can't understand him because of all the extra periods and run-ons in his sentences?!?!?!?!
NivikD If you don't think health and safety is an issue worth discussing in brewing, I certainly don't want any of your beer.
DrWill, I don't all ways agree with John Palmer, He has co written a couple of books and is knowledgeable about brewing, but he is not the absolute authority. I have seen many studies that support my statement, on aluminum and it's no urban legend. The studies at least offer enough information to pay attention.
That's my opinion and your certainly are entitled to yours.
I brew with Stainless, Thank you!
I don't breath asbestos, (it was considered harmless 50 years ago)
DrWill, I don't all ways agree with John Palmer, He has co written a couple of books and is knowledgeable about brewing, but he is not the absolute authority. I have seen many studies that support my statement, on aluminum and it's no urban legend. The studies at least offer enough information to pay attention.
That's my opinion and your certainly are entitled to yours.
I brew with Stainless, Thank you!
I don't breath asbestos, (it was considered harmless 50 years ago)
Good to know that cooking with aluminum is bad for you. I'll stop, you know, eating anything, anywhere, from any restaurant. Ever. Then when I don't get Alzheimer's, I'll be sure I made the right choice.
http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_myths_about_alzheimers.asp
Or not. Man, Googling **** is hard.
http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_myths_about_alzheimers.asp
Or not. Man, Googling **** is hard.
helibrewer
Well-Known Member
Denny's Evil Concoctions said:What fancy machine? You're saying they don't boil at all? So either they use pasteurized extract and hop oils or they make wild yeast fermented malt liquor.
Pasteurization occurs at 160F, that's the temp food producers use and the recommended temp within the food industry. You only need a few minutes above 160 to sanitize wort and everything in it. I've been making yeast starters this way for a long time. To check your wort sanitation, just put it in a loosely covered container and watch it for contamination. You should not see anything before about 5 days. If things start growing in your wort prior to that, you have sanitation issues.
MarcusKillion
Well-Known Member
What fancy machine? You're saying they don't boil at all? So either they use pasteurized extract and hop oils or they make wild yeast fermented malt liquor.
OP. If you lived in the mountains your boiling temp would be about 95c and though it would have a rolling boil.
Figure out your hourly boil off and adjust ypur boil time. If you use beersmith this can be done quite easily.
this machine has been used by breweries and the beer taste tested by the experts and they say it is great and it does not boil . Watch their video and read their faq for the information on why it is not done . rather interesting . slick machine and expensive .
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1708005089/picobrew-zymatic-the-automatic-beer-brewing-applia
I used to just bring my wort to a gentle boil and it worked out just fine . That is all my stove and my first propane burner would do . Then I saw a video with the full boil and all the reasons why and started doing it that way . the only difference I have ever noticed is that i can boil off more water quicker . No difference in taste at all.
MarcusKillion
Well-Known Member
Aluminum is very bad for you and since the great move to everything made from it Alzheimer's has become far more prevalent and is directly related to Aluminum in the brain . This has been known for many decades . i was told in about 1970 by my dad not to breath in the dust or fumes from sanding or melting it . I would think cooking in it would impart some in your food . Besides aluminum turkey fryer pots are rough and leave plenty of places for nasties to hide .
but I used to use one . then I got Alzheimer's and forgot where I put it and had to buy stainless
BURNING aluminum is very bad for you. Do not breathe burning aluminum, or burning anything. There is no known connection between aluminum and Alzheimer's, and it's pretty obvious that the increased prevalence of the disease since aluminum came into use (what, the 1920s?!) has SOMETHING to do with the fact that doctors know what it is now and correctly diagnose it. Y'think?
On the other hand, if you are going to spout pseudoscience, better this than antivax or something. At least with this, all you do is convince brewers to waste money on stainless when aluminum is cheap and ideal for boiling liquids.
Edit: BTW, aluminum actually burns at like 7000F, so unless you have a really kickin' burner, you're OK in that department. It melts around 1200F. What you're getting when you weld with it is the production of poisonous oxides from the welding process, the same as you get when you solder or weld with anything.
On the other hand, if you are going to spout pseudoscience, better this than antivax or something. At least with this, all you do is convince brewers to waste money on stainless when aluminum is cheap and ideal for boiling liquids.
Edit: BTW, aluminum actually burns at like 7000F, so unless you have a really kickin' burner, you're OK in that department. It melts around 1200F. What you're getting when you weld with it is the production of poisonous oxides from the welding process, the same as you get when you solder or weld with anything.
FATC1TY
Well-Known Member
There's so much stupid and mis information in this thread it makes my head hurt...
I hope this thread dies off so some newbies to brewing don't think their aluminum pot will kill them and quit brewing because of not being able to get a SS pot.
I hope this thread dies off so some newbies to brewing don't think their aluminum pot will kill them and quit brewing because of not being able to get a SS pot.
FATC1TY
Well-Known Member
Aluminum is rough, and can harbor nasties?
It's your boil pot.... think about what you just said. Doesn't matter.. it's all brought to a long boil even IF that statement was true.
Yeah, I wasn't even gonna start on that. Maybe he has problems with those exotic bacteria that live in deep sea volcanic trenches. Not much else will survive multiple hour-long boils.
MarcusKillion
Well-Known Member
seems to be a lot of info in both directions but the aluminum is there any way and I am sure it is not good to have a brain full of it .
Since pots and pans started to be made of aluminum lots of things have gotten worse it seems . how ever given the larger populations more would be expected along with better diagnoses . But I still think the stuff is not good for you to cook in without teflon coating to stop it from getting in your food . No telling how much gets in when the pot is on a very hot burner . Then add in the corrosive effects of brewing Acid / base .
Better safe than sorry I would say .
MarcusKillion
Well-Known Member
I am just saying stainless is better suited . I used aluminum for quite a while .
The nasties thing I stated is just a fact . Feel the inside of your cheap turkey fryer pot . It is rough . I am just saying that they require a bit more attention to detail when cleaning .
I know nothing is going to live through the boil . At least nothing I want to know about before I drink a beer.
That has bee proven false years ago. Aluminum is just fine after it's conditioned.
Let me guess....you don't believe in vaccinations either b/c "they cause Autism"....just like "aluminum causes alzheimers".... I LOVE my 10 gallon aluminum pot!! It cost about 50 bucks and is Sooo easy to clean with mild soap and a dish towel. Guess what my next pot will be?!?!? ALUMINUM! But probably 15 or 20 gallons so I can start with 10 gallon batches.
FATC1TY
Well-Known Member
MarcusKillion said:
Just so you know. That Teflon coating is far, far worse for you to ingest than aluminum. Just sayin. If you are gonna go by no known facts then atleast follow a fact that Teflon is disgusting for you.
FATC1TY
Well-Known Member
And to anyone that had a pot. Don't scrub it like Marcus states. You want the passive layer to stay. Rinse. Soap it. Wipe it. That's all you need to do. Don't scrub it to death unless you have too.
MarcusKillion
Well-Known Member
I do not actually SCRUB the pots with something abrasive . I use a wash cloth and Ivory soap .
On to Teflon . Only bad if you over heat the pan . Then yes . This is why you are not supposed to use high heat on pots and pans .
Aluminum turkey fryer pots , well I just can not see them being all that healthy with a huge propane burner on them and caustic or acidic liquid being boiled . I could be wrong as it is just a theory .
I thought I was wrong one time but I was mistaken .
But like I said , I used them also . Up until I wanted to go bigger .
Sure them nasties will die in the boil so no point in washing too thoroughly , right ? Well then no reason to wash them dishes before you eat off of them again . your sink is the nastier than your toilet so I would not suggest it but if you simply boiled the dishes for a few minutes then you could use them . No need to wash them as them germs probably died in that boil .
Well I would say that I would rather wash them germs off instead of having them dead germs in my food . So goes with the beer .
I am not a germophobe personally so I think a little soap and a scrubbing with a cloth is usually all that is needed .
On to Teflon . Only bad if you over heat the pan . Then yes . This is why you are not supposed to use high heat on pots and pans .
Aluminum turkey fryer pots , well I just can not see them being all that healthy with a huge propane burner on them and caustic or acidic liquid being boiled . I could be wrong as it is just a theory .
I thought I was wrong one time but I was mistaken .
But like I said , I used them also . Up until I wanted to go bigger .
Sure them nasties will die in the boil so no point in washing too thoroughly , right ? Well then no reason to wash them dishes before you eat off of them again . your sink is the nastier than your toilet so I would not suggest it but if you simply boiled the dishes for a few minutes then you could use them . No need to wash them as them germs probably died in that boil .
Well I would say that I would rather wash them germs off instead of having them dead germs in my food . So goes with the beer .
I am not a germophobe personally so I think a little soap and a scrubbing with a cloth is usually all that is needed .
MarcusKillion
Well-Known Member
What conditioning ? Like a cast iron pan ?
I think you may be referring to anodizing it . Anodized aluminum pots are the safest choice . Nice hard surface that is sealed away from the aluminum .
cheap pots like turkey fryers have not been anodized. the aluminum can get in your food and it is not good for you. Probably will not get alzheimer's but ... Alzheimer's people do have a lot in them . to be fair so do elderly people . Who knows why .
captainkirk83
Well-Known Member
We could just as easily blame radio or tv waves for causing Alzheimer's as the disease didn't exist until they were sent through the air.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Wow this thread got off on a tangent.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Wow this thread got off on a tangent.
MarcusKillion
Well-Known Member
So then back to the point of all of this ... No rolling boil is just fine as far as I can tell . How ever I do think it is preferable to me since it means less time boiling off that excess water ... Oh yeah that excess water would not need to be in there if I used a gentle boil .... A conundrum indeed .
I think this was asked long ago - " to boil or not to boil . that is the question ."
Maybe this goes into play - hard boil would boil away more of them tasty smelly oils from the hops ?
Maybe the gentle boil would leave more aroma/flavor ? Leading in to - what temp is best for extracting them oils ?
Just for the facts i use a 90 minute full boil with hops of course starting in at 60 minutes or FWA
I think this was asked long ago - " to boil or not to boil . that is the question ."
Maybe this goes into play - hard boil would boil away more of them tasty smelly oils from the hops ?
Maybe the gentle boil would leave more aroma/flavor ? Leading in to - what temp is best for extracting them oils ?
Just for the facts i use a 90 minute full boil with hops of course starting in at 60 minutes or FWA
