is my lauter slow enough?

[sputnam]

3 gallon batches
around 10 qts. into mash tun
at end of mash I stir vigorously, vorlauf 2 qts. and drain (5-10 mins)
add sparge water at 175° (usually around 3 gallons), rest for 10 mins
stir vigorously, vorlauf and drain (10-15 mins)

i end up with around 70% eff., could i do a better technique, upgrade equipment, or just roll on as is?

equipment is 5 gallon round cooler with mesh tubing. Mash temps are accurate, tun is usually filled within an inch or two of overflowing, which makes it difficult if not impossible to do big beers and/or 90 minute boils.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

My understanding is that sparge rate is meaningless if you're doing batch sparge. Let it go as fast as it flows out.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, though, as I've been a fly sparger since day 1 of AG.

 

[sloanfamilydsm]

My understanding is that sparge rate is meaningless if you're doing batch sparge. Let it go as fast as it flows out.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, though, as I've been a fly sparger since day 1 of AG.

Agreed^^^^

I have done both fly n batch sparging and yes, once runnings are clear open er up n git-r-done.

I have returned to fly sparging cause its kind of a set-n-forget method for me

 

[Clonefan94]

My understanding is that sparge rate is meaningless if you're doing batch sparge. Let it go as fast as it flows out.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, though, as I've been a fly sparger since day 1 of AG.

Yup, doesn't matter in batch sparging.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[helibrewer]

My understanding is that sparge rate is meaningless if you're doing batch sparge. Let it go as fast as it flows out.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, though, as I've been a fly sparger since day 1 of AG.

Actually, the fly sparging rate is meaningless with regard to lautering efficiency, it's importance is in preventing a compact grain bed, that's it.

 

[AnOldUR]

Actually, the fly sparging rate is meaningless with regard to lautering efficiency, it's importance is in preventing a compact grain bed, that's it.

Yeah, I think you have that backwards. There's no stirring involved during continuous sparging, so you have to drain slow enough to rinse all the sugars from the grain and not channel. With batch sparging you stir to suspend the sugars and then drain as fast as you dare without getting stuck.



edit:
Maybe you're thinking of no sparge?

 

[max384]

Actually, the fly sparging rate is meaningless with regard to lautering efficiency, it's importance is in preventing a compact grain bed, that's it.

I've seen my efficiencies vary with sparge times as I was dialing in my process. The longer the sparge, the better my efficiencies are.

 

[metanoia]

You certainly don't want to open the valve up as much as possible when batch sparging, unless you want a stuck sparge from a compacted grain bed. Just keep stirring and moving the grain around while draining, you'll get plenty of sugars into the sparge water. I came in at 80% efficiency batch sparging last brew, though my crush was finer than usual and I had to put a lot of effort into keeping the drain from sticking both times.

 

[rasmith18]

Just keep stirring and moving the grain around while draining, you'll get plenty of sugars into the sparge water. I came in at 80% efficiency batch sparging last brew, though my crush was finer than usual and I had to put a lot of effort into keeping the drain from sticking both times.

How are setting the grain bed if you keep stirring it while you drain? Fly or batch sparging, you still need the have the grain bed set and act as a filter. Grain bed should only stick if it being compacted or using large amounts or wheat.

 

[helibrewer]

Yeah, I think you have that backwards. There's no stirring involved during continuous sparging, so you have to drain slow enough to rinse all the sugars from the grain and not channel. With batch sparging you stir to suspend the sugars and then drain as fast as you dare without getting stuck.



edit:
Maybe you're thinking of no sparge?

Nope, continuous sparge (fly). Look at the commercial tuns, they are designed wide and shallow to maximize the flow rate. Some use mash filters that pressure squeeze the grain making the lauter very fast. Channeling is not a speed issue, it's a geometry and drain issue (false bottom, bazooka, etc.)

 

[dkevinb]

How are setting the grain bed if you keep stirring it while you drain? Fly or batch sparging, you still need the have the grain bed set and act as a filter. Grain bed should only stick if it being compacted or using large amounts or wheat.

I've only done BIAB but I'm curious about this, too. What's filtering if you're stirring the grain up?

 

[sputnam]

 

[RM-MN]

3 gallon batches
around 10 qts. into mash tun
at end of mash I stir vigorously, vorlauf 2 qts. and drain (5-10 mins)
add sparge water at 175° (usually around 3 gallons), rest for 10 mins
stir vigorously, vorlauf and drain (10-15 mins)

i end up with around 70% eff., could i do a better technique, upgrade equipment, or just roll on as is?

equipment is 5 gallon round cooler with mesh tubing. Mash temps are accurate, tun is usually filled within an inch or two of overflowing, which makes it difficult if not impossible to do big beers and/or 90 minute boils.

At the end of the mash you shouldn't have to stir as all the sugars that the wort will hold should be dissolved already. Just lauter and drain. Add your sparge water and stir vigorously and then drain. Your stirring should dissolve the sugars until the wort (second runnings) is again at an equilibrium. You stir your tea to mix in the sugars and dissolve them, you don't need to let your cup of tea sit ten minutes to do that, all the 10 minutes of sitting will do is get your tea cold. Stir your mash well when you sparge and then drain it as fast as you can.

Increasing the efficiency has more to do with the milling of the grain and that is a balancing act. Too coarse of milling and you get poor efficiency, too fine and you can't drain the tun because you won't have a good filter. You could try milling finer if possible but remember that there is a balance and if you get a stuck sparge it means you milled too fine.

 

[max384]

Nope, continuous sparge (fly). Look at the commercial tuns, they are designed wide and shallow to maximize the flow rate. Some use mash filters that pressure squeeze the grain making the lauter very fast. Channeling is not a speed issue, it's a geometry and drain issue (false bottom, bazooka, etc.)

With the massive amounts of sparge water that commercial breweries are using, they need to maximize flow rate, otherwise, the sparge could last too long. Do you know how long the commercial breweries sparge for?

I can tell you with my own experience that my efficiency has been directly impacted by sparge times.

At the end of the mash you shouldn't have to stir as all the sugars that the wort will hold should be dissolved already. Just lauter and drain. Add your sparge water and stir vigorously and then drain. Your stirring should dissolve the sugars until the wort (second runnings) is again at an equilibrium. You stir your tea to mix in the sugars and dissolve them, you don't need to let your cup of tea sit ten minutes to do that, all the 10 minutes of sitting will do is get your tea cold. Stir your mash well when you sparge and then drain it as fast as you can.

Increasing the efficiency has more to do with the milling of the grain and that is a balancing act. Too coarse of milling and you get poor efficiency, too fine and you can't drain the tun because you won't have a good filter. You could try milling finer if possible but remember that there is a balance and if you get a stuck sparge it means you milled too fine.

There is no reason to be afraid of a stuck sparge. There is a piece of 1/2" tubing I have attached at the end of the bulkhead on my mashtun that the wort flows through. When I get a stuck sparge, I just blow air through the manifold and it is VERY easily unstuck. I sometimes blow in with my mouth, other times I'll use my air compressor. Either way works, and this is all pre-boil, so putting my mouth on it or the compressor tip won't hurt a thing.

 

[AnOldUR]

I sometimes blow in with my mouth . . .

hehehe!
sig worthy, but I'll refrain.





I liked the post for its content, but couldn't help myself.

 

[max384]

HAHAHA! Damn! You got me!

 

[IslandLizard]

3 gallon batches
around 10 qts. into mash tun
at end of mash I stir vigorously, vorlauf 2 qts. and drain (5-10 mins)
add sparge water at 175° (usually around 3 gallons), rest for 10 mins
stir vigorously, vorlauf and drain (10-15 mins)

i end up with around 70% eff., could i do a better technique, upgrade equipment, or just roll on as is?

equipment is 5 gallon round cooler with mesh tubing. Mash temps are accurate, tun is usually filled within an inch or two of overflowing, which makes it difficult if not impossible to do big beers and/or 90 minute boils.

Red highlight:
Add sparge water, stir vigorously, then let sit for 5 minutes, vorlauf and lauter. You could sparge 2x with half the volume each and eek a few more points out.

If you're looking for better efficiency, look at your crush. Chances are you can tighten the mill quite a bit. Starting guides for 2 roller mill gaps: .034" (credit card) for barley, .024"-.028" for wheat, rye, and other small kernel grains.

To save some space in your tun, you can steep your crystal and dark grains on the side. Make sure all grains that need to be mashed, like Carapils, Munich, Biscuit, etc, are in the tun though.

I get 80-85% and love batch sparging. I do acidify my sparge water a little bit to keep the pH during the sparge under 5.6 to prevent tannin extraction. It only takes 1/4-1/2 tsp.

 

[helibrewer]

Lautering efficiency will go up with slower flow times in a manifold/bazooka configuration due to their smaller effective collection areas as compared to a false bottom. The false bottom provides uniform washing and the highest flow rates.

Most batch spargers use a manifold system of some kind so lower flow rates make sense.

My earlier comments were with regard to false bottom lauter tuns since they provide the least channeling and highest flow rates they tend to be to most efficient.

 

[max384]

Lautering efficiency will go up with slower flow times in a manifold/bazooka configuration due to their smaller effective collection areas as compared to a false bottom. The false bottom provides uniform washing and the highest flow rates.

Most batch spargers use a manifold system of some kind so lower flow rates make sense.

My earlier comments were with regard to false bottom lauter tuns since they provide the least channeling and highest flow rates they tend to be to most efficient.

So this unequivocal comment:

Actually, the fly sparging rate is meaningless with regard to lautering efficiency, it's importance is in preventing a compact grain bed, that's it.

was meant only in regard to false bottom lauter tuns, despite the OP specifically stating he used mesh tubing, and with no qualifications on what you were specifically talking about? Riiiiiight.

 

[helibrewer]

Yes, because who fly sparges with a mesh tube???