Is my beer bad? Appreciate your thoughts

[Dolemite78]

So here's my story, as best I can remember it. I tried to brew a Coconut flavored Stout after trying a delicious Coconut flavored Porter at a California micro-brewery. I know most of you are far beyond the Mr. Beer kit days, but was hoping your general knowledge of brewing may help me out. Below is a rundown of what I did and what I used

Mr. Beer 8.5qt kit

-Added Alcohol Booster
-Boiled water
-Added 1 can HME (Irish Stout)
-Added a little Honey 1/4 cup maybe, after boil
-Added Shredded Coconut (type found in the baking aisle) possibly about 2 cups, wrapped up in a pair of new/washed pantyhose (I'm sure a poor choice, but read somewhere that someone had did something like this with good results)
-Added Wort w/ coconut concotion to the fermenter and topped off to 8.5qt with water
-Added provided yeast, let sit 5min, then stirred in and capped the keg
-10 days in fermenter, then bottled

After about 5 days in the fermenter it appeared that the brew was foaming at the top, the kitchen filled with a great coconut smell and I was super excited. About day 7, the wife and I decided to test it out with a couple of shot glasses. It was a little sweet, desired coconut + stout flavor was there, but it had a sour'ish taste to it. Then as I went back to inspect the keg I realized the white I saw on top of the black beer was not foam, but some type of floating substance.

I went ahead and let it go 3 more days, then primed and bottled (plastic mr. beer twist caps). After I bottled and inspected the white substance, which I thought was some sort of mold, it appeared to be congealed coconut that maybe escaped from the pantyhose and rose to the top. It was snow white and had the consistency of a wet chunk of a bar of soap, and had a smell that I would describe as sour/spoiled. I conditioned at room temp for about 6days then moved to the fridge. They sat in there for about 4 days then we tried them. Again it tasted pretty good, but still sour.

I've since left them bottled, probably going on 3 months now, and plan to try again tonight. Any thoughts on what may have happened or if the beer is safe to drink? Any tell tale signs that I should look for concerning spoilage? Thanks in advance.

 

[JeepDiver]

My guess is the white stuff floating was the fat/oil from the coconut. Taste may be the fat/oil going rancid. Most beers I've seen use toasted conconut, that has been put between paper towels to get as much fat/oil out as possible. Doubt the beer will hurt you if you can mange to drink it.

 

[Germelli1]

Nothing in beer can harm you since the pH plus antimicrobal properties of hops make beer a pretty good preservative. I have no idea what the white stuff was without a pic, but with much of the fermentables being simple sugars (honey and alcohol boost) I would imagine some off flavors.

 

[Maxkling]

Sounds like a lacto infection.

Does it look like this?

Search and look around at infections. With out a picture there isnt a real way to help.

Also when did you add the coconut? If you didnt boil it and didnt add it when fermentation was well on its way and alcohol was present in the beer, then Id say thats where it came from, besides poor sanitation.

Also describe the sour flavor, would you say more like vinegar or more like cidery.

 

[broadbill]

If I were to guess, I would say that you used shredded coconut preserved with sulfur, and infused a bunch of the preservative into your beer. This would kill any yeast you added (or greatly inhibited their growth) and that is why you ended up with a less than stellar final product. Based on the sour taste, it might be infected with lactobacillus as well.

Pretty sure its safe to drink, but you may not want to.

 

[Jayman931]

Let it condition for a few months...I am sure it will be fine.

 

[kh54s10]

When you try it tonight you will know. If you don't like it it might just be that the coconut was wrong. If it tastes really bad and you spend the night praying to the porcelain gods you will know that it was infected. Good luck.

 

[Germelli1]

When you try it tonight you will know. If you don't like it it might just be that the coconut was wrong. If it tastes really bad and you spend the night praying to the porcelain gods you will know that it was infected. Good luck.

That is not true and is a terrible thing to tell a beginning brewer. NOTHING IN BEER, NO MATTER HOW "INFECTED" OR SOUR, CAN MAKE YOU SICK.

 

[david_42]

I agree with jeepdiver, dried coconut is almost 60% fat, so that's probably the source of the white stuff. Sulfur is a common preservative, so that will affect the flavor.

Did you take any specific gravity readings?

"

NOTHING IN BEER, NO MATTER HOW "INFECTED" OR SOUR, CAN MAKE YOU SICK."

Except that alcohol stuff ...

 

[Maxkling]

That is not true and is a terrible thing to tell a beginning brewer. NOTHING IN BEER, NO MATTER HOW "INFECTED" OR SOUR, CAN MAKE YOU SICK.

Truth, beer or anything with alcohol is safe from all pathogens. Its just as safe if not safer than your water in your house.

 

[Germelli1]

Except that alcohol stuff ...

good point

And to get technical, it can cause allergic reactions, but nothing you wouldn't experience from normal homebrew

 

[Dolemite78]

Thanks guys. Great to have such an active board. The pic Maxkling posted is identical to what I had going on. Sounds like a bad batch. Everything was sanitized very well, I am a bit of a germ freak when it comes to things I consume, lol.

The coconut was added right after my water and booster had reached a boil. I took the mixture off the stove and poured in my HME, and Honey, hit it with a whisk then dropped the coconut in the wort.

The sour taste was less like vinegar or cider to me, however cider would be the closest match of the two. Kind of reminded me of a milky sour taste.

 

[Germelli1]

I honestly think it is fine. Lacto is the one infection I have not had so I don't know what it tastes like. If it is infected, drink em quick because it will continur to sour!

 

[mojo_wire]

If you didn't boil the honey, that sounds like a good starting point for an infection. There's a reason you aren't supposed to give that stuff to babies, it's full of potential contaminants.

I think using fresh (or shredded) coconut isn't a very good idea because of the fat/oil content. Using coconut extract would probably be a better idea. Make it yourself and add a little at bottling.

 

[Dolemite78]

So, for those wondering, I tried it over the weekend. I needed to free up some growlers and bottles to make room for my Raspberry Honey Wheat that I bottled on Sunday. Let's just say it was pretty bad. I think it had probably been conditioning for almost 3 months and it tasted just as bad, if not worse than when I first cracked one open months ago. It had a heavy sour taste, assume the infection got worse. It had also developed a strong mettalic flavor, and to top it all off I realized that I had really over carbonated it. All in all, this batch was a waste. Here's to hoping the latest brew is better, so far so good as I have been tasting every couple days prior to bottling.

 

[BonnieJ]

That's a bummer. Here's to better brewing in the future

And you might want to just leave the lid on the batch you're doing now. Less chance for nasties to get in there It'll turn out the same (or better) even if you don't taste it, and if you only give it one taste right before bottling and it has turned bad, all you're out is a few extra days in the fermenter.

 

[broadbill]

If you didn't boil the honey, that sounds like a good starting point for an infection. There's a reason you aren't supposed to give that stuff to babies, it's full of potential contaminants.

You are not supposed to give honey to babies because it may contain botulism spores. Botulism is not a problem in fermented beer (although it could be in unfermented wort). Honey also has a really high sugar concentration so its unlikely to have any other sort of bacterial contamination, either. It could have physical contaminates in it however (bee parts, etc).

I'm not sure mead-makers boil their honey, and their products do not get infected...

 

[broadbill]

So, for those wondering, I tried it over the weekend. I needed to free up some growlers and bottles to make room for my Raspberry Honey Wheat that I bottled on Sunday. Let's just say it was pretty bad. I think it had probably been conditioning for almost 3 months and it tasted just as bad, if not worse than when I first cracked one open months ago. It had a heavy sour taste, assume the infection got worse. It had also developed a strong mettalic flavor, and to top it all off I realized that I had really over carbonated it. All in all, this batch was a waste. Here's to hoping the latest brew is better, so far so good as I have been tasting every couple days prior to bottling.

FWIW, you probably didn't overcarb it, the excess carbonation is probably from the bacterial infection.

 

[Dolemite78]

That's a bummer. Here's to better brewing in the future

And you might want to just leave the lid on the batch you're doing now. Less chance for nasties to get in there It'll turn out the same (or better) even if you don't taste it, and if you only give it one taste right before bottling and it has turned bad, all you're out is a few extra days in the fermenter.

I should have clarified that I have a spigot on my main fermenter. I didn't take the top off, I would just draw about a half shot glass every 2-3 days. It's bottled and will go in the fridge on Saturday. I know it will be a little green, as it fermented 11 days and I only plan to condition 6-7, but considering the aforementioned batch was a disaster, I'm a little behind on my inventory, lol. Just getting back in to brewing after about a year or two off, makes me really want to stock up.

Sunday I started my next batch, a Green Chile Blonde Ale. Aromatics are really nice after 2 days in the fermenter. I didn't go crazy with the Chile's, but plan to add more on the second fermentation.

 

[Dolemite78]

You are not supposed to give honey to babies because it may contain botulism spores. Botulism is not a problem in fermented beer (although it could be in unfermented wort). Honey also has a really high sugar concentration so its unlikely to have any other sort of bacterial contamination, either. It could have physical contaminates in it however (bee parts, etc).

I'm not sure mead-makers boil their honey, and their products do not get infected...

I was curious about all the honey talk too. I've been planning to do some more research on the matter. I typically always add honey to my brews, and this is my first "obviously" infected batch. I'm not a stickler for writing down recipes or taking notes, but I do know that I play with when i add certain ingredients such as honey. Sometimes it goes in right after the boil and is removed from the heat, sometimes before the boil. I sometimes prime with it as well.

I'm one of these guys that doesn't look for consistency, lol, call me crazy. I enjoy cracking beers from the same batch and getting slightly different flavors. I know that priming with table sugar is a big no-no with many of you, however I often do it for the desired reason that most of you don't. I usually bottle/condition in intervals too, within 3 to 5 days and label accordingly. If I was entering competitions and/or entertaining a bunch of guests at an event, then consistency would matter more to me. But if it's just for my pleasure, I enjoy the subtle differences.