Is it worth it to buy bulk grains?

[RM-MN]

If you are near Minneapolis, MN you can get base malts pretty cheap. http://www.midwestsupplies.com/homebrewing-ingredients/brew-malt-grain-adjunct/bulk-sacks.html

 

[Puddlethumper]

More Beer is selling 50# sacks of 2 row for $35.99 right now. This is great if you live near one of their retail stores. Not so great if you need to pay shipping.

 

[jbaysurfer]

1. Variety. Those who do this, do you have to keep a lot of grains in inventory in order to brew enough variety? Or, are you just picking your 4 variety beers and brewing in rotation? I like to experiment with styles and recipes. Can I reasonably do this while buying in bulk?

Yes. Yes you can. As long as you have a relatively reasonably climate controlled (humidity is bad, dry 65 degrees will keep your grain for a very long time) space you can keep your grains for a long time. Buy the base malts in bulk, and the specialty malts buy in 1G ziplocs and stock up.

2. What frequency do you brew your batches? Is there concern that grains will stale before you can use them up? Is bulk buying more suitable to the 10 gallon brewer?

I brew 2-3 times a month. Grains WILL stale, but it takes a long time. Key is to keep them DRY and of course, free from mice. I've got cats that take care of the pest control. I usually go through a bag of base malt once every 2-4 months, and I keep it in a corner of the garage that's dry, and stays between 45-80 most of the time. Nothing tricky. I'd prefer it to be 65 and dry in there all the time and the grain would probably last for years, but I go through it fast enough doing 5G batches that it works fine.

3. Anything you wish someone told you when you considered expanding in this way?

Only the stuff I just told ya
Edit: BTW, the best practice is to keep them all in 5G homer buckets. You want them to breath so as to avoid condensation in temperature changes, but you want them relatively sealed up to keep the vermin out. I'm just lazy and I get through the grain fast enough and live in a dry enough place, there's really no need for me to bucket the grain up. Just twist tie the inner bag and roll the top. Just twist tie the whole thing if there's no inner bag.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Many local micro brewers will sell homebrewers bags of malt at cost. I pay 40 bucks for a 55# bag at a local place, with no sales tax.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Many local micro brewers will sell homebrewers bags of malt at cost. I pay 40 bucks for a 55# bag at a local place, with no sales tax.

I'm going to be in Santa Barbara for a few days next month. Got any recommendations on good local microbrewries?

 

[judsonp]

I just buy sacks of base malts. I brew roughly 5 gallons per 2 weeks, and I don't worry about them going stale too fast. I store in brand-new trash cans, because the lids seal tightly and they're cheap.

 

[gwapogorilla]

I buy in bulk. I have over 800 lbs. of grain(of all kinds), over 17 lbs. of hops and 8 types of yeast. I store my grains in food saver bags. I have read that if you keep grains in air tight containers, they will last for a few years.

Uh, well....I am hoping they are right. :rockin:

 

[DrunkleJon]

What everyone else is saying. Buy base malts in bulk. It all depends on how much and how often you brew. If you are going to go through 50lbs of 2 row or MO or Munich or whatever in under a year buy up a sack. even at $1/lb as 2-row typically goes for at LHBS-es it is savings over the 1,2,5,10LB bags you can get from the same LHBS. Check out the group buy section (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f174/) and see if you can get in on one, prices go way down when you buy in bulk, even more savings when buying in larger quantities.

 

[negativereaction]

Maintaining an inventory of base grain AND specialty grain AND a variety of bulk hops is worth more than just the cost savings. There is nothing like the freedom of waking up and thinking 'I'm going to brew tomorrow', and knowing you probably have all the ingredients you need already in inventory. It's great to never have to worry about the logistics/time of buying it by mail, or having to drive to the LHBS all the time for one forgotten thing, etc.

I have a closet full of grain. Bulk grain in gamma sealed containers and dated so I know to use older stuff first.

I have specialty grain in 1lb bags (my LHBS sells by the pound in prepackaged bags), in probably 20 different plastic clear shoeboxes, with labels on the front as to what it is, all on a large wire rack to store it all.

Bulk hops get stored in mason jars, using the foodsaver vacuum seal lid attachment.

All this gives me the freedom to brew anything, anytime, and the freedom to piss my wife off with constant weekend brewing.

 

[Whattawort]

I'm so lucky that we have a local brewery that will sell bulk grain to homebrewers. I can pick up a sack of 2 row for $35 and a sack of MO for $45 (and yeast is free). They will also sell us bulk specialty malt which is great for group buys. I've used 12mo old 2 row before that wasn't stored well (kept in a hot and humid area), and the only issue I had with it were the grain weevils. Those can't be avoided in any batch of grain, but they were a bit more abundant with this stuff. My efficiency was still good and it didn't taste stale at all. The only time buying bulk might not be a great idea is if you can't get it locally. Shipping can end up costing more than the grain. If that's the case, find another brewer and go in halfsies.

 

[Beernik]

I put hard numbers to it this morning. With the 17 beers I have planned for the year, it looks like it would make sense to buy Pale Malt and Pilsen in bulk and I could save about $45. I could buy a corona mill and be ahead this year.

If I could get 20-30lb sacks instead of 50-55lbs, I could step up that bulk purchase to include Munich, Vienna, and Wheat.

How big a Rubbermaid tote do you need for 25lbs of grain and for 55lbs of grain?

 

[WI_Wino]

For me, it would take 2000 lbs of 2 row to break even on the cost of a mill. So at some point it will be worth it but right now brewing dollars are going to other aspects. Costs based on Ritebrew w/ local pick up.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/grain-mill-payback-465305/

 

[DRonco]

How big a Rubbermaid tote do you need for 25lbs of grain and for 55lbs of grain?

From my research, it looks like a 10 gal container will hold roughly 50 lbs.

 

[DrunkleJon]

From my research, it looks like a 10 gal container will hold roughly 50 lbs.

Yep, a 5 Gallon homer bucket holds about 25# so you get basically 5# per Gallon. Bonus points if you get a good seal on the container (like the Gamma seal lids for buckets or vittle vaults).

 

[copyright1997]

Yep, a 5 Gallon homer bucket holds about 25# so you get basically 5# per Gallon. Bonus points if you get a good seal on the container (like the Gamma seal lids for buckets or vittle vaults).

Instead of buying the orange homer buckets which are not food grade, buy the 5 gal white paint buckets at Walmart made by encore plastics. These have been verified to be food grade, cost $2.97 for the bucket (without a lid). Then, as you said, invest in some gamma seal lids.


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[kombat]

I buy malt and hops in bulk through group buys organized by my local homebrew club.

The biggest upfront cost for me, honestly, was the buckets and lids. I went with food-grade buckets and Gamma Seal lids, which are apparently quite pricey. However, I really enjoy having such a wide variety of grains available for those days when I feel like brewing on a whim.

I buy full sacks of 2-row, Maris Otter, Pilsner, and Munich malts. I buy partial sacks of Carafoam, roasted barley, Vienna, Carared (equivalent to Crystal 20), Caraaroma (Crystal 120), Caraamber (Crystal 30), and rice hulls. Beyond that, I order my grains onilne by the pound, on an "as-needed" basis from a well stocked HBS with good prices and decent shipping. I always order more than I need, to ensure I have a couple of pounds in my bin. These are the grains that are only ever needed for a few ounces in some recipes, stuff like Chocolate malt, Melanoidin, flaked corn, toasted barley, that sort of stuff.

The hops I buy by the pound, then portion them out and vacuum seal them in individual pouches with a FoodSaver vacuum sealer system. I store them in labeled bins in my freezer.

 

[fartinmartin]

I've always bought my base malt in 25kg sacks. I don't like to think about storing it in an airtight container, that's only some gut feeling I have , you know the sort, those that can't be argued with!
I keep mine in the sack , normally it's there for max three months.
So here at end April I am two brews into my second sack.
I must be drinking toooo much.

 

[LandoLincoln]

For me, it would take 2000 lbs of 2 row to break even on the cost of a mill. So at some point it will be worth it but right now brewing dollars are going to other aspects. Costs based on Ritebrew w/ local pick up.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/grain-mill-payback-465305/

There's a heck of a lot of posts on this website that contain the phrases "my efficiency is horrible" and "I mill my grains at the homebrew shop." I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

[fartinmartin]

I don't think it's coincidence either. So what is the effective shelf / or use life, for optimum ?

 

[WI_Wino]

There's a heck of a lot of posts on this website that contain the phrases "my efficiency is horrible" and "I mill my grains at the homebrew shop." I don't think that's a coincidence.

Yeah, I was surprised at that. Personally I'm getting 85% from Ritebrew's crush (BIAB, double mill option)

 

[RM-MN]

Instead of buying the orange homer buckets which are not food grade, buy the 5 gal white paint buckets at Walmart made by encore plastics. These have been verified to be food grade, cost $2.97 for the bucket (without a lid). Then, as you said, invest in some gamma seal lids.


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Buy their lids too, they seal airtight. I've been using them for fermenting 2 1/2 gallon batches and the airlock bubbles like it should.:rockin:

 

[JaimeTheLimey]

I buy base like 2 row and pils in bulk.
You may want to check with your local shop to see if they have a grain card program. You basically pay bulk price up front, then they deduct it off your card each time you come in. Best of both worlds; fresh grain and bulk price.

 

[copyright1997]

Buy their lids too, they seal airtight. I've been using them for fermenting 2 1/2 gallon batches and the airlock bubbles like it should.:rockin:

Yes, I have a bunch of their lids also.


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[Puddlethumper]

I don't think it's coincidence either. So what is the effective shelf / or use life, for optimum ?

The main issue with long-term storage of whole grain malts is moisture. The next level of concern belongs to temperature. And obviously, pest damage including mice, grainary moths, etc. can be a problem if the grain isn't kept in tightly sealed containers.

According to most sources whole grains should be stored where they will remain dry with temperatures below 90F. According to Briess some slight loss of flavor may occur in whole grains after 18 mos. in good conditions.

If the grain is stored where it will absorb moisture, all bets are off. It can go bad on you in a hurry.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I'm going to be in Santa Barbara for a few days next month. Got any recommendations on good local microbrewries?

Sorry, just caught this. If you like Sours, drive up to Buelton (30minutes or so north) to the Firestone Walker Barrel Room. The sours are amazing. It's world class, and the tasting is totally affordable.

For in town, The Brewhouse down on Montecito St. is a great place for food and beer. The brewers are personal friends and they have a triple IPA going on tap soon. If you're lucky it'll still be there. They also make great belgians, and the current RIS on draft is outstanding.

Figueroa Mountain is downtown and it's generally hopping. I have a beer going on tap there, but we won't be brewing it til next month. Who knows..maybe you'll be there when we do? They are on a tear with 3 medals at the last GABF and 2 at World Beer Cup recently. No food, but you can order from nearby restaurants, and the barmaids are cute.

Santa Barbara Brewing Company has a pretty unique Imperial Lager on draft right now. The brewmaster is a BJCP Grand Master judge, and he brews beer to style generally, but this Imperial Lager was a rare foray for him and it's very cool.

In Goleta there's a place with good food and good (especially if you're a hophead) beers called Hollister Brewing company. Hippy kicker is one of my favorites (IPA) but Hip-Hop and Masterplan DIPAs are also great, as is the Fire Dragon Imperial Red ale.

Hit me up and if I'm in town I'd love to show you around and introduce you to some of the brewers if they're in house when we go.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Hit me up and if I'm in town I'd love to show you around and introduce you to some of the brewers if they're in house when we go.

Thanks for the leads! Will be travelling with the wife and sister-in-law so the pubs with food will be at the top of the list. I know you are friends with them so I don't want to corner you with this, but if you were travelling with two 60-70'ish ladies which one would you recommend for a light supper or lunch and some good beer?



p.s. They enjoy a good time, but hip-hop and loud definitely aren't going to get it. Thanks!

 

[jbaysurfer]

Thanks for the leads! Will be travelling with the wife and sister-in-law so the pubs with food will be at the top of the list. I know you are friends with them so I don't want to corner you with this, but if you were travelling with two 60-70'ish ladies which one would you recommend for a light supper or lunch and some good beer?



p.s. They enjoy a good time, but hip-hop and loud definitely aren't going to get it. Thanks!

Brewhouse downtown and Hollister in Goleta. Hollister is more strip mall-ish. Brewhouse is a bit more hip..in a divey kinda way. I think in terms of food/beer quality, I'd rank them in that order. (Brewhouse, then Hollister).

Oh, PS, Hip Hop is just a beer name. There's no loud music at either place (well, unless it's live Music night (fridays I believe) at Brewhouse), but they both can get pretty full sometimes. Hollister is near UCSB but they mostly only get grad students/more mature students in there when they come.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Brewhouse downtown and Hollister in Goleta. .

Awesome! Thanks for the info and for the invite. If I get down that way when I can go for a real pub-crawl I'll definitely take you up on it!

 

[fezzman]

The main issue with long-term storage of whole grain malts is moisture. The next level of concern belongs to temperature. And obviously, pest damage including mice, grainary moths, etc. can be a problem if the grain isn't kept in tightly sealed containers.

According to most sources whole grains should be stored where they will remain dry with temperatures below 90F. According to Briess some slight loss of flavor may occur in whole grains after 18 mos. in good conditions.

If the grain is stored where it will absorb moisture, all bets are off. It can go bad on you in a hurry.

The problem I had with my second 50# sack was weevils hatching within a few months. I had the grains stored in 5 gallon buckets.

I have since been storing my grains in freezer bags...in the freezer. A 1 gallon bag will hold 4 lbs. This makes it easy to pull smaller quantities so that the rest stays frozen. Is this a bad idea???

I suppose weevils won't likely develop in specialty grains that are kilned or roasted.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I suppose weevils won't likely develop in specialty grains that are kilned or roasted.

Your bugs most likely came from your supplier. The product probably had the bugs in it when you bought it.

To bring you up to speed on the topic, we tend to call a whole bunch of different stored food pests "weevils" when weevils, in fact, are pretty uncommon. Weevils are a whole grain pest. We find them in products such as whole wheat, rice and beans.

The much more common stored food pests are grain moths (Indian meal moth, angumois flour moth, Mediterranean flour moth) and various grain beetles (i.e. confused flour beetle, sawtooth grain beetle, red flour beetle, etc.) This latter group of pests is associated with cracked grains, not whole grains like the true weevils. And that is the connection with the malted grains we use in brewing.

Your supplier probably had these products on the floor for a long time and/or he has some pretty serious sanitation issues. Unless you have a stored food pest problem at your house already, if you bought grain and ended up with stored food pest problems shortly afterward, I'd give consideration to finding another supplier.