Is Imperial L26 "Pilgrimage" blended yeast an Andechs strain?

[Brooothru]

So, I was cleaning out my refrigerated yeast bank yesterday and came across an Imperial L26 "Pilgrimage" yeast packet that I'd picked up at my LHBS last year, and promptly forgot it was there. The 'manufacture' date is May 17, 2022, making it just over 8 months old. It was barely 2 weeks old when I bought it and has been stored under optimal 38F conditions ever since I brought it home, so I mixed up a quick liter of 1.020 SG wort and pitched it in a cleaned and sanitized gallon jug along with a pinch of nutrient and a 4 minute blast of O2 @ 4L/m for a "Shaken, Not Stirred" (SNS) propagation. It's not showing much sign of any activity after about 18 hours, but Hope springs eternal nonetheless.

Assuming the starter produces a viable colony, which I think it probably eventually will, I'm trying to find out more about just what exactly this yeast is. It's a seasonal release from Imperial which I think is sold year-round in commercial pitches but not home-brew sized packets. It's a blend of at least two yeast strains, and likely started out as some brewery's house yeast strain, though Imperial isn't revealing those data. I remember hearing about it just before I picked the packet up at my LHBS, and my fading memory bank seems to recall some reference to Andechs but I'm unable to find any supporting info. The Imperial website lists the standard stuff:

"Pilgrimage will produce lagers with a very clean profile that can accentuate the flavors and aromas of pilsner malt along with the aromatics of Noble hops. This lager yeast is very versatile and does well for all lager styles from Helles to Dopplebock."

Clean, flocculent, versatile, similar to L17 "Harvest" (Augustiner strain, which I've used, and like). That's about all I can find out about it. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what it is or where it came from I guess, as long as it produces a good beer. I'd just like to have some idea of what to expect before I pitch it into my next lager. And if it is Andechs, or if it behaves like Andechs, I'm gonna' propagate a metric crap ton of this stuff. It's difficult at best to find any of that strain from any supplier in quantities less than 1~3 bbl pitch volumes. White Labs and BSI offer it starting at 1 bbl pitches for $150 and up. I love me some Andechs, but not at those prices.

And speaking of White Labs and WPL-835X, anybody know when their 'vault' opens up? It's usually around this time of year, but they go fast and I've been 'aced out' of scoring any in two of the last three releases. Last year I obtained some technically expired vials (White Labs shipped them in the Old School format instead of Pure Pitch), and I was able to revive them and ferment successfully. But I hate wasting time surfing the web for Andechs yeast strains which seem to be as rare as Rainbow Unicorns (but as expensive as thoroughbred horses). TIA.

 

[day_trippr]

a 4 minute blast of O2 @ 4L/m for a "Shaken, Not Stirred" (SNS) propagation.

I've managed to totally ignore the whole SNS thing so have zero clue about it.
But...16 liters of pure O2 in a liter starter? Yikes! Is that for real?

Cheers!

 

[SanPancho]

My recollection with vault is that you pay when you place your order. So there isn’t any scramble to snag it. It’s essentially a reservation. When the batch is grown up and packaged your yeast ships. Maybe buy two? One too prop, and then freeze, the other to play with right away.

 

[Brooothru]

I've managed to totally ignore the whole SNS thing so have zero clue about it.
But...16 liters of pure O2 in a liter starter? Yikes! Is that for real?

Cheers!

Probably is overkill on the O2. The YouTube video for SNS has you put ~1 liter of wort in a gallon jug and then shake the living crap out of it until it is mostly thick foamy broth, then pitch the yeast. Being slightly lazy I opted to put the wort in a 2L Erlenmeyer and agitate on high speed on a stir plate while injecting O2 from a carbing stone. The goal is to super-saturate the wort without stressing (shear force applied to) the already weakened yeast colony. After agitation I poured wort into a gallon jug and then pitched the yeast, swirling it just enough to mix the wort and yeast.

I seriously doubt that 16L of O2 was absorbed by the wort, quite likely only a fraction if truth be told. But without doing the chemistry/math I'm sure the dissolved O2 concentration was at saturation. Any excess gaseous O2 would have dissipated to the atmosphere during handling, and any dissolved O2 in the wort will be metabolized by the yeast during the adaptive phase.

*(major disclaimer: I'm NOT a microbiologist, nor did I spend last night in a Holiday Inn)

 

[rallenhall]

I just checked Yeastman on the 835 German X which is one of my favorite yeasts. It's marked as "Sold Out" at the homebrew level and no reservations are being accepted. I ran through a pseudo purchase for a pack of 835X ProPitch which had a proposed shipping date of mid-Feb, at the cost of roughly $300 (2 day air from San Diego to Ohio). Looks like I missed again. Had a reservation in for 835X a couple of years ago but in the chaos of Covid never received or heard anything afterward.

 

[SanPancho]

i've got a couple pouches in freezer with 10% glycerin. if you guys are that eager i could prop some up and ship you a fat pouch. i use the sterile breast milk storage bags. at that point im assuming the main cost would be overnight, or at max, 2day shipping. got a bunch of the frozen gel packs, should fit in standard usps/fed ex/ups envelope.

 

[Jack Arandir]

BrewHardware in NJ has WLP835 in stock. I picked up some a few weeks ago.

 

[Brooothru]

i've got a couple pouches in freezer with 10% glycerin. if you guys are that eager i could prop some up and ship you a fat pouch. i use the sterile breast milk storage bags. at that point im assuming the main cost would be overnight, or at max, 2day shipping. got a bunch of the frozen gel packs, should fit in standard usps/fed ex/ups envelope.

Very generous offer, and thanks for being willing to share. I’ve got at least 3 frozen glycerin/yeast samples that are a couple of years old. If I can’t find any ‘fresh’ I’ll propagate one of those.

BTW, absolutely brilliant idea of using sterile breast milk pouches for freezing culture samples. I’m surprised nobody has ever mentioned it before. Curious, did you buy an entire Pro Pitch for freezing? If so you must really like Andechs .

 

[Brooothru]

BrewHardware in NJ has WLP835 in stock. I picked up some a few weeks ago.

Thanks for the lead. Just got two of ‘em ordered from Bobby. That will keep me going for a while. Now if I can only figure out the genotype and phenotype of L26 “Pilgrimage.”

 

[SanPancho]

Very generous offer, and thanks for being willing to share. I’ve got at least 3 frozen glycerin/yeast samples that are a couple of years old. If I can’t find any ‘fresh’ I’ll propagate one of those.

BTW, absolutely brilliant idea of using sterile breast milk pouches for freezing culture samples. I’m surprised nobody has ever mentioned it before. Curious, did you buy an entire Pro Pitch for freezing? If so you must really like Andechs .

no, i was a ******* and didnt snag any last time we used it. but i wound up with some from white labs last year so i grew up a bunch and froze them. love the strain but too much of a pain to constantly have to track down vials on homebrew level so i figured i'd better bank some for later. i think i have like 4 pouches.

to be honest, i havent used it for quite a while. last fall i got a little conical for home, so i can pressure ferment. and now that my other favorite got the GMO treatment for thiols (lunar crush/mex lager) i've been using it for few months now and really dig it. for my black and brown lagers i use s189, but everything else i make is hoppy lager of some sort so i've just kept using the GMO over and over.

the milk bags was an idea i got off somebody else here on hbt. found some in the bsmt so i kept them for later. yeast, heavy cream, buttermilk, homemade ice cream base, etc. we use em for all sorts of stuff now.

 

[day_trippr]

found some in the bsmt

There has to be a joke in there

 

[rallenhall]

Agree with Brooothru ... San Pancho, your offer was above and beyond. I would hate to have you go through all of the trouble and like Brooothru, I've got an order in from BrewHardware (though the word must be out ... limit of one for my order). I should grow it up and learn how to freeze ... would appreciate tips and tricks.

 

[Brooothru]

Quick update on the origins of Imperial L26 "Pilgrimage".

I wrote to Imperial to get some info on the yeast, which I understood to be Andechs strain supposedly blended with another yeast strain. I thought I had gotten that from Imperial ads or literature. It appears I heard wrong, but the great news for lovers of hard-to-get Andechs strain yeast (at least in home-brew sized quantities) is that "Pilgrimage" is "straight up Andechs". Here's the email:

Hi Ted,

L26 Pilgrimage is straight up Andechs. It is neither sta1+ nor POF+.

Let me know if you have further questions.
Cheers,
Rory

The bad news is that it remains a seasonal release. The good news (at least for me) is that I received (2) Next Generation pitches of WLP-835x in the mail yesterday from Bobby at Brew Hardware to complement the ½ gallon of "Pilgrimage" that I've currently got propagating in the brew area. Sadly, "Pilgrimage" is still a seasonal release but between White Labs and Imperial there's enough overlap that I'll be able to restock when they're available. I'm gonna' be swimmin' in Andechs pretty soon.

I had two award winners last year that fermented on Andechs, a German Pils and a Helles-Maibock.
I'm planning on using the "Pilgrimage" propagation for an upcoming Cold IPA and a Timbo West Coast Lager when I get a break in the cold weather. Can't wait to get started.

 

[rtstrider]

no, i was a ******* and didnt snag any last time we used it. but i wound up with some from white labs last year so i grew up a bunch and froze them. love the strain but too much of a pain to constantly have to track down vials on homebrew level so i figured i'd better bank some for later. i think i have like 4 pouches.

to be honest, i havent used it for quite a while. last fall i got a little conical for home, so i can pressure ferment. and now that my other favorite got the GMO treatment for thiols (lunar crush/mex lager) i've been using it for few months now and really dig it. for my black and brown lagers i use s189, but everything else i make is hoppy lager of some sort so i've just kept using the GMO over and over.

the milk bags was an idea i got off somebody else here on hbt. found some in the bsmt so i kept them for later. yeast, heavy cream, buttermilk, homemade ice cream base, etc. we use em for all sorts of stuff now.

Hey just to verify what is the frozen strain you've got? I've been trying to get my hands on the andechs strain

 

[Brooothru]

Hey just to verify what is the frozen strain you've got? I've been trying to get my hands on the andechs strain

As near as I can tell, the only true Andechs strains available in home brew pitches are WLP835x, Imperial L26 “Pilgrimage”, Wyeast 2105-PC, all of which are ‘seasonal’ or limited release. Also, Wyeast 2105 has not been released that I’ve seen for the last two years.

Propagate Labs used to have Andechs in HB sized pitches, but apparently no longer, though they do release it for pro brewery sized pitches. White Labs has pro pitches of 835x for special order ($$$). BSI has brewery pitches, also big $$$.

I’ve got several 50 ml glycerin/yeast frozen samples of 2105-PC and Propagate Labs Andechs strains, and I’ve got “Pilgrimage” and 835x bubbling away in half gallon 3rd step propagations as I write. The plan (hope) is to 200~300 ml of dense slurry out of each to use some right away and freeze the rest.

I really like this yeast strain and have had good luck with it, but it’s exhausting trying to source it without paying through the nose for a gallon or more pro pitch.

 

[rtstrider]

Was going to take up @SanPancho on that yeast offer since we can't get any of the seasonal strains anywhere close to my area. Just wanted to make sure they were offering the Andechs strain

 

[eliastheodosis]

Just ordered two packs of WLP835x through Yeastman. Excited to brew with this one!

 

[rtstrider]

Just ordered two packs of WLP835x through Yeastman. Excited to brew with this one!

Glad you mentioned that! I'm going to do the same for the German Lager X and the belgian strain. I've been on a lager kick here recently

 

[eliastheodosis]

Glad you mentioned that! I'm going to do the same for the German Lager X and the belgian strain. I've been on a lager kick here recently

Thought you might like to know. That Belgian strain looked intriguing but I've got enough other stuff going on at the moment. Next time! I'm planning to grow up some of the 835x to try freezing some. Also going to see if I can talk my wife into finding me some space in her -80 at work

 

[Brooothru]

Thought you might like to know. That Belgian strain looked intriguing but I've got enough other stuff going on at the moment. Next time! I'm planning to grow up some of the 835x to try freezing some. Also going to see if I can talk my wife into finding me some space in her -80 at work

I’d settle for some -20 space in a refer that didn’t have auto-defrost. The cryo packing I do around my frozen samples just to keep them frozen takes up valuable real estate in the beer fridge. Between the hops and the yeast, SWMBO’d thinks she deserves some room for her hobbies.

 

[eliastheodosis]

Well, I pitched her my plan over dinner and she okayed it without a blink. The woman is something else. I'm going to streak out a couple plates from one of these pouches, grow those up, and freeze a few vials full in the -80. That should be enough to harvest and propagate up 25-30 more times. Pulling a small amount and plating it out would be no big deal, so I guess if any of you need a plate in the next year or two then add me to the list of people to hit up.

 

[Brooothru]

“That should be enough to harvest and propagate up 25-30 more times.”

Or maybe even 25-30 years.

 

[eliastheodosis]

Or maybe even 25-30 years.

Yeah, probably should have said "at least" there It's most certainly overkill but my wife and I are both afflicted with a tinge of crazy, so it works. Probably some grad student 30 years from now is going to find a vial marked Andechs with no other context. Hopefully they brew a beer with it.

 

[rtstrider]

Received a 150ml pouch of wlp835 from @SanPancho today. Tossed it in 1.5L 1.020 wort to help wake it up. Not expecting any activity until tomorrow at the earliest. Planning on propping this up to 2L 1.040 then banking it up for the freezer collection Thanks for the help SanPancho!

 

[rtstrider]

Thought I saw a hint of condensation on the inside of the flask. Got on the step ladder and lo and behold....

 

[Brooothru]

Beautiful sight! Andechs is a workhorse of a yeast. When I started my propagation of out of date yeasts, one was year old vial of WLP830 German Lager (allegedly Weihenstephaner 34/70 strain) which is another reliable workhorse. The 830 didn’t show much activity and I was about to give up and dump it. But yesterday morning it suddenly took on the same appearance of your Andechs pitch. My year-old L26 Pilgrimage (Andechs) had finished and settled from the 2nd 1.040 SG ‘feeding’ before the 830 even woke up, but the 830 is finally catching up.

It seems to me that the final finished beer are about equal with Andechs and 34/70 strains, clean, moderately malty. The biggest difference I discern is how fast and clear the Andechs finishes whereas the 34/70 takes more time to get started, is slower to finish, and takes more time to drop clear.

Another similarly strong performer that’s easy to work with is WLP833 German Bock Lager (Ayinger?). Strong, fast, clears and drops quickly.

 

[rtstrider]

Just pitched a 2L 1.040 starter into a batch of Helles Yeah (aka the house helles). Really excited to see what this yeast does, or doesn't, bring to the table

 

[Brooothru]

Just pitched a 2L 1.040 starter into a batch of Helles Yeah (aka the house helles). Really excited to see what this yeast does, or doesn't, bring to the table

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. My experience has been that 835X (Andechs) produces a very similar finished beer to WLP-830 (34/70, Weihenstephaner) and WLP-860/Wyeast 2352 (Augustiner). I haven't yet done a true split batch comparison, but my recent propagations of simultaneous retail pitches provide some anecdotal results. Those propagations were all three-step vitality step-up props, beginning with 1.020 SG 250 ml starters to 1.037 SG 500 ml starters to finally a second 1.037 SG addition to the batch. Final total volumes were about 1.5-2.0L and produced 75~100 ml each of dense, viscous slurry after decanting the supernantant.

The beginning yeast volumes were all ~50 ml highly liquid slurries. The initial 250 ml mix received O2 oxygenation. All props were Shaken, Not Stirred (SNS) technique, done in 1 gallon glass jugs at room temperature (~65-68F). All props were allowed to go two weeks to completion, verified by Final Gravities ranging from 1.006 to 1.009.

The yeasts propagated were WLP-835X and Imperial L26 (both Andechs), Wyeast 2352 and Imperial L17 (both Augustiner), WLP-833 German Bock Lager, and WLP-830 (34/70 Weihenstephaner). So essentially six separate propagations using four different strains. I didn't taste/sample any of the supernatant discards, though all had similar color and appearance. Even though two of the yeast pitches were 'fresh' within their Best-By windows, four of the pitches were technically out of date and were anywhere from 9 to 12 months from their date of manufacture, but had been stored in optimal ~38F refrigeration. All showed visible signs of fermentation within 24-36 hours. Even the old yeasts successfully produced viable yeast cultures.

In the case of the Andechs yeast (835X and L26), both started fermenting at nearly the same time even though the L26 was nearly a year old since manufacture and the 835X was less than three months old. Both showed similar speed to end of fermentation and both cleared rapidly. Of all the propagations, only WLP-833 German Bock (Ayinger) seemed to finish faster and drop clearer. The 833 was also the most recently manufactured.

The Wyeast 2352 and Imperial L17 (Augustiner) similarly showed equal timeframes for starting and finishing, but dropping clearer much slower than both the Andechs and Ayinger strains.

The slowest to both start and complete fermentation was the WLP-830 German Lager. That said, it was also the second oldest pitch (nearly 12 months old since manufacture), but was the most powerful fermentor, finishing at 1.006 FG. It also took the longest to drop clear, and never seemed to loose its 'translucent' murky layer between compacted slurry and clear supernatant until after several days of cold crashing.

That just about sums up the physical observations I had propagating these different varietals of yeast strains, and certainly isn't scientific or conclusive. It doesn't really delve into different tastes each yeast will produce. The only way to approximate that would be with true split batch comparisons. There are subtle yet distinct differences in the way these yeasts ferment, however. That will have to be a different post for a different day.

Bottom line (TL; DR): I've used each of these strains at different times for different beers. They're all excellent yeasts that produce very similar results, though each in their own unique way. I'll drift between them depending on my mood and objective at the time. Right now my favorite is Andechs, but I really like Auggie as well. I made a great Vienna lager last year with Ayinger, which might be my personal favorite of all the beers I've ever brewed. But for everyday solid, no joke, reliable fermentations it's hard to beat 34/70 (aka., SafeLager, 830, L13 Global, Wyeast 2124, etc). If you start with a good recipe and can control temperature, you can't miss with any of them.

 

[eliastheodosis]

Related post from @SanPancho about Bootleg Biology updates. It involves the Andechs strain...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...tleg-biology-beta-release-spring-2023.726171/
Also, I just brewed a helles yesterday afternoon and pitched the WLP835X. Nothing flashy. Basic helles recipe, hochkurz mash, fermenting at 50 right now. My wife and I pulled 2mL from the pouch before building the starter and split it into four vials that are now sitting in her -80. So I can now deliver on my previous offer for a plate in the mail.

@Brooothru, this yeast seems like a beast already. The starter on it was insane. I've seen very few yeast take off so fast or finish so quickly. Pitched yesterday at about 3pm into a 50F wort and it's already chugging along this morning. Excited to see how it turns out!

 

[Brooothru]

Related post from @SanPancho about Bootleg Biology updates. It involves the Andechs strain...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...tleg-biology-beta-release-spring-2023.726171/
Also, I just brewed a helles yesterday afternoon and pitched the WLP835X. Nothing flashy. Basic helles recipe, hochkurz mash, fermenting at 50 right now. My wife and I pulled 2mL from the pouch before building the starter and split it into four vials that are now sitting in her -80. So I can now deliver on my previous offer for a plate in the mail.

@Brooothru, this yeast seems like a beast already. The starter on it was insane. I've seen very few yeast take off so fast or finish so quickly. Pitched yesterday at about 3pm into a 50F wort and it's already chugging along this morning. Excited to see how it turns out!

Totally agree. I can’t understand why more yeast propagators aren’t producing and marketing the heck out of Andechs strain lager yeasts. L26 “Pilgrimage” and 835x are both seasonal releases (L26 was first released in 2022).

Wyeast used to have 2105-PC (Coor’s house strain) as a seasonal release, but hasn’t made it available for the past three years, so it’s pretty rare and hard to get your hands on it. I’ve used it in the past to make Coor’s Banquet and Coor’s Light clones with great success.

I haven’t found any downside to brewing with it. Def. my favorite for lagers that is fast, clean, neutral and drops quickly. What’s not to like?

 

[eliastheodosis]

Totally agree. I can’t understand why more yeast propagators aren’t producing and marketing the heck out of Andechs strain lager yeasts. L26 “Pilgrimage” and 835x are both seasonal releases (L26 was first released in 2022).

Well, now we've got at least one more propagator. I think Bootleg does a BETA release at least twice a year, probably more, so you'll have another chance at it. I was also really impressed with how quickly it flocced out when I did the starter. Pitched it into the starter at about 9pm and it already had a beautiful, persistent bed of yeast by midday the next day!

Wyeast used to have 2105-PC (Coor’s house strain) as a seasonal release, but hasn’t made it available for the past three years, so it’s pretty rare and hard to get your hands on it. I’ve used it in the past to make Coor’s Banquet and Coor’s Light clones with great success.

That one is interesting. I'm not sure it would be something I would seek out regularly but I'd never know until I try it. I'll keep an eye out and try to post back if it pops up on the radar. Looking pretty stagnant, though

*EDIT* It's right there in their announcement. Three seasonal releases with 3 BETA strains each time.

 

[Brooothru]

I've never ordered from them before. Looks like the perfect time to become a customer.