Is going all grain worth it ?

[PhelanKA7]

Its all a matter of taste. Certain people have (or think they have ) ultra-refined pallets. It's like people that have better than 20/20 vision. It is rare but it exists and people like that might actually pick up on certain flavor cues that most of us just don't get no matter how hard we concentrate on the fluid passing our gums. I certainly don't get it because I've never tasted the infamous "extract twang" (whatever that's supposed to be) or been able to tell a difference between whole leaf hops or pellet despite having brewed with both. I have a friend that took home Best of Show in a homebrew competition showcasing over 200 beers with an extract beer.

The idea that AG is always better is sheer nonsense. To me it is like suggesting that an adjustable wrench is always better than a box-end. Sure you can pick and choose your gap but the tolerance can still swing a wide ways with an adjustable. If you know exactly where you're going a box-end will get you there just as well if not better. It's hard to slip when your gap measures exactly to what you are turning.

 

[petep1980]

I personally think it is, it is definitely a new challenge. There may not be a steep learning curve, but it is fun narrowing it all down to your system and being able to make the beer you want, the way you want to make it.

In order to make it work economically and time-wise for me I have to make smaller batches ~3.5-4.0 gallons due to mash tun constraints and time-saving techniques which involve no mash out, nor sparging.

It is important to note that your first all grain beer will be about as good as your 20th. It will turn out perfectly fine. It'll probably take you 8 hours to brew it, and you'll likely literally sweat into your beer. It's the tweaking of your system which is fun.

 

[mbobhat]

A novice can make a terrible sauce from fresh tomatoes, a good cook can take a can of tomatoes, fresh oregano, basil, salt pepper, garlic, onion, peppers etc. and make a world class sauce.

+1

More variables to control, which is why alot of people see it as a progression, but as long as you're brewing its up to you how you want to proceed.

 

[PhelanKA7]

It is important to note that your first all grain beer will be about as good as your 20th. It will turn out perfectly fine. It'll probably take you 8 hours to brew it, and you'll likely literally sweat into your beer. It's the tweaking of your system which is fun.

8 hours??? What is this? A quintuple decoction?

 

[petep1980]

8 hours??? What is this? A quintuple decoction?

My first all grain when I thought I had to mash out and sparge according to beersmith and books took me friggin forever. 8 hours may be underestimating it.

 

[ArcticBear]

8 hours??? What is this? A quintuple decoction?

i find that on the normal my all grain brew days go on for more than 6 hours...

time to heat the strike water
1-1.5 hours mash
0.5 hour to sparge (i usually get grains stuck in my false bottom which slows everything down)
0.5 hour to get it to boil
1 - 1.5 hour boil
0.5 hour to chill
0.5 hour to rack into fermenter and pitch

these are rough estimates but i did find that it takes me a long time to brew an all grain batch... (started one at 4pm yesterday and didnt have the yeast pitched until 1130)

 

[petep1980]

Do you guys pencil in time for constant interruptions from the wife and kids?

 

[ArcticBear]

Do you guys pencil in time for constant interruptions from the wife and kids?

no wife or kids just yet, but i do have to constantly play defense from a nosy pitbull and weimaraner during mash out and racking...

during mashing this time i ran out to the LHBS (its 2 miles away ) and picked up a 16.5 gallon fermenter and grabbed some bacon pizza from grand apizza in clinton CT.

with the exception of the weather being a little cold and not having a chair on the deck it was a pretty good brew day...oh yeah and dealing with my immersion chiller pissing garden hose water into my keggle because a fitting was loose...

all in all, all grain is just more fun if you can appreciate the time it takes and the process... it can be frustrating at times but it also can be relaxing and rewarding, especially if your setting a day aside for it and have nothing to worry about you can just take your time and relax with a beer as you brew

 

[zyx345]

I also found that extract beers tend to be thinner with less mouthfeel than AG.

When I share my beers with folks and tell the, I brewed it, and when they taste it, the look of surprise and how much they are enjoying it solidifies the move to AG.

I also found the above to be true regarding Extract batches and some of mine seemed to form a subtle aftertaste/twang that I was able to pick up, but my friends didn't.

As an apartment dweller, I'm able to do BIAB All Grain batches by splitting the boil between two pots (4 & 5 gallon) and splitting the hop additions accordingly. Only upgrades I made were a cooler and wort chiller.

My first all grain took me 7 hours but that was due to an hour batch sparge soak which I now know I don't need to do that long.

Ultimately I decided to do all grain to obtain a more complex flavor in the beer and to get that back end grain aftertaste that I felt was missing or too subdued in my prior Extract and PM brews.

 

[petep1980]

I also found the above to be true regarding Extract batches and some of mine seemed to form a subtle aftertaste/twang that I was able to pick up, but my friends didn't.

I'm beginning to think this is a myth. This twang I've gotten from all grain and extract. Don't quote me though, I know no science behind this claim.

 

[cheezydemon3]

The only "twang" that I have encountered is from a ph problem with making a dark extract beer. something about the base malts mellows the PH from the dark grains and when the base malts are DME it doesn't work the same.

A tsp or so of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) goes into all of my dark brews.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Really, time and convenience are the only variables for me.

If I was independantly wealthy and didn't work and could afford unlimited childcare there would be no question. AG all day.

With my constraints? forget it.

 

[fletchsj]

i find that on the normal my all grain brew days go on for more than 6 hours...

time to heat the strike water
1-1.5 hours mash
0.5 hour to sparge (i usually get grains stuck in my false bottom which slows everything down)
0.5 hour to get it to boil
1 - 1.5 hour boil
0.5 hour to chill
0.5 hour to rack into fermenter and pitch

these are rough estimates but i did find that it takes me a long time to brew an all grain batch... (started one at 4pm yesterday and didnt have the yeast pitched until 1130)

if it took me consistently more than 3.5 hours to brew I wouldn't do AG. wow 6 hours?

my brew day:
30 min to heat 15 gal h20
40 min mash/recirc/sparge 20min mash, 5-10min recirc/sparge
20min bring to boil
60min boil
15min chill direct to fermenter
10 sec pitch yeast
20-30 min clean and put away

these times are for a 10 gal batch and winter times. summer goes faster due to faster time to heat.

all grain brewing motto: Cheaper, faster, more customization!

 

[afr0byte]

if it took me consistently more than 3.5 hours to brew I wouldn't do AG. wow 6 hours?

my brew day:
30 min to heat 15 gal h20
40 min mash/recirc/sparge 20min mash, 5-10min recirc/sparge
20min bring to boil
60min boil
15min chill direct to fermenter
10 sec pitch yeast
20-30 min clean and put away

these times are for a 10 gal batch and winter times. summer goes faster due to faster time to heat.

all grain brewing motto: Cheaper, faster, more customization!

Have you ever used a timer? I just find that hard to believe, though obviously it's possible. 6 hours is about right for me too.

 

[pabloj13]

My all-grain brew day is 3.5-4 hours. Pretty consistently. I do most of it while my little ones are napping. I love all-grain. Very glad I switched.

 

[afr0byte]

Huh, you folks must be better at multitasking than I am / have no gaps between tasks.

EDIT: Do you folks pre-measure your mineral additions the night before? Do you pretreat your water? I'm guessing you measure your hops ahead of time and don't check your pH? I'm curious.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

My all-grain brew day is 3.5-4 hours. Pretty consistently. I do most of it while my little ones are napping. I love all-grain. Very glad I switched.

Man that's fast, I'm 5 1/2 on my best days, but usually right 6. Are you doing no-sparge/no-chill?

 

[petep1980]

Man that's fast, I'm 5 1/2 on my best days, but usually right 6. Are you doing no-sparge/no-chill?

Some how they have gapped the time-space continuum. Rest times alone add up to longer than 2 hours. They must have found a way to circumvent latent heat.

If I didn't just finish heat transfer I'd have the enthusiasm to calculate how long it takes stuff to get to certain temps and experience phase changes. But, that class kicked my rear end.

My brew day is calculated between the time I begin gathering my equipment until everything is cleaned.

 

[pabloj13]

Man that's fast, I'm 5 1/2 on my best days, but usually right 6. Are you doing no-sparge/no-chill?

Something like this:


Heat mash water/get rest of equipment out 30'
Mash/heat sparge water 60'
Drain mash/single batch sparge 20'
Bring to boil 20'
Boil 60'
Immersion chiller cool/ wash other equipment with IC outflow water 20-30'
Drain to carboy with venturi aerating tube 1'
Pitch 1'

 

[Shooter]

Wow, if my AG days were eight hours plus, I would be doing only extract. I normally take around six hours, but that includes hauling all my equipment down from the second floor to the patio and setting up and then cleaning and putting it all away at the end of the day.

 

[petep1980]

Something like this:


Heat mash water/get rest of equipment out 30'
Mash/heat sparge water 60'
Drain mash/single batch sparge 20'
Bring to boil 20'
Boil 60'
Immersion chiller cool/ wash other equipment with IC outflow water 20-30'
Drain to carboy with venturi aerating tube 1'
Pitch 1'

Cheater, you have to count the worst part cleaning equipment.

 

[smyrnaquince]

if it took me consistently more than 3.5 hours to brew I wouldn't do AG. wow 6 hours?

my brew day:
30 min to heat 15 gal h20
40 min mash/recirc/sparge 20min mash, 5-10min recirc/sparge
20min bring to boil
60min boil
15min chill direct to fermenter
10 sec pitch yeast
20-30 min clean and put away

these times are for a 10 gal batch and winter times. summer goes faster due to faster time to heat.

all grain brewing motto: Cheaper, faster, more customization!

If I take your maximums:
30 min to heat 15 gal h20
40 min mash/recirc/sparge
20min mash
10min recirc/sparge
20min bring to boil
60min boil
15min chill direct to fermenter
10 sec pitch yeast
30 min clean and put away

I get 3.75 hours, which is about what you estimated. But, what about setup time? Add in 30 minutes to get out the pots/mash tun/etc., the burner, the ingredients, miscellaneous equipment (stirring spoons, etc.), and fill the pot with water. Add in another 5-10 minutes for taking samples and reading the hydrometer, making notes, etc. (Buy you might get these done during the boil, chill, etc.)

So, now you're up to 4.25 hours counting in the setup time. Still pretty quick, though.

 

[afr0byte]

Something like this:


Heat mash water/get rest of equipment out 30'
Mash/heat sparge water 60'
Drain mash/single batch sparge 20'
Bring to boil 20'
Boil 60'
Immersion chiller cool/ wash other equipment with IC outflow water 20-30'
Drain to carboy with venturi aerating tube 1'
Pitch 1'

How big is the ball valve on your kettle that you can drain it in 1 minute? I have a Blichmann with a half-inch valve. There's no way I could drain it in a minute. It usually takes more like 5+minutes. Also, you must not do water adjustments at all?

 

[passedpawn]

People who all grain brew in 3.0-3.5 hours also typically experience incredible efficiencies.

haha.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I think, to the point of this thread, AG takes longer. Pure extract is the quickest, and PM and steeping fall between extract and AG.

 

[solbes]

4.5 hours with Brew in a bag. That includes grain crushing, setup, and cleanup. If it was just heating/mashing/brewing/pitching it would be about 3.5 hrs.

 

[afr0byte]

4.5 hours with Brew in a bag. That includes grain crushing, setup, and cleanup. If it was just heating/mashing/brewing/pitching it would be about 3.5 hrs.

That, I could believe.

 

[pabloj13]

If I take your maximums:
30 min to heat 15 gal h20
40 min mash/recirc/sparge
20min mash
10min recirc/sparge
20min bring to boil
60min boil
15min chill direct to fermenter
10 sec pitch yeast
30 min clean and put away

I get 3.75 hours, which is about what you estimated. But, what about setup time? Add in 30 minutes to get out the pots/mash tun/etc., the burner, the ingredients, miscellaneous equipment (stirring spoons, etc.), and fill the pot with water. Add in another 5-10 minutes for taking samples and reading the hydrometer, making notes, etc. (Buy you might get these done during the boil, chill, etc.)

So, now you're up to 4.25 hours counting in the setup time. Still pretty quick, though.

EDIT: I see you were responding to another post. My bad. Point still stands.

I take the pot and burner from the garage to the back patio. Takes about 2 seconds. Yeah there is a pot filling in there. So add 5' for that. But the rest of the equipment I get out during the mash water heating. I do almost all of the cleaning of equipment outside of the brewpot itself during the immersion cooling.

 

[pabloj13]

How big is the ball valve on your kettle that you can drain it in 1 minute? I have a Blichmann with a half-inch valve. There's no way I could drain it in a minute. It usually takes more like 5+minutes. Also, you must not do water adjustments at all?

I have this one. Maybe 2 minutes? It's fast as heck. Only thing I have on there is a 90 degree street elbow pick up tube. Water adjustments I am going to start doing now, but what does that add? Weigh calcium chloride, dump in strike water?

 

[afr0byte]

I have this one. Maybe 2 minutes? It's fast as heck. Only thing I have on there is a 90 degree street elbow pick up tube. Water adjustments I am going to start doing now, but what does that add? Weigh calcium chloride, dump in strike water?

That valve looks like a half inch valve. I suppose it could be faster if you're using a hose to help with the siphon pressure.

As far as water adjustments, if you're only going to add some minerals and not using acid to adjust pH, then it won't take long. Plus, unless you're always going to add the same mineral adjustments you'll have to take time, at least the first time you brew the beer, to figure out what adjustments to make. Also, if you're not taking the time to measure the resulting pH, it won't take long (EDIT: I suppose the pH testing is done during the mash, but I also have other things to do in that time.).