Is going all grain worth it ?

[CastleHollow]

I brewed with extract for 25 years before I went to all grain. The reason it took so long was due to time constraints. I raised 3 kids, worked a lot, had a lot of house and yard projects, and brewing time was at a premium.

Once the kids were older, I had more time. I was brewing a partial mash beer one day when I began thinking about why I brewed at all. The answer was because I enjoyed the process, and it was a hobby. This prompted me to start all grain brewing, regardless of the time commitment, and I have never looked back. I love the process, the control, the feeling that I am using the same process that brewers have used for what, a thousand years?

So, for all the reasons listed by other posters, I say sit and think about why you make beer. The answer to that question will guide you to what process you use to make it.

+1, this is pretty much my story, too.

AG requires a commitment of time and equipment, although your ingredient cost per batch will generally be less.

Almost all of my batches now are AG, because it's a social event. I've led 3 other people to brewing in the past year, and we're all AG brewers. Get together once/month and spend the day brewing, drinking & smoking cigars. I still go back to extract/PM if I want to whip up a small batch, or experiment with a recipe, but for me, AG has been worth it.

 

[PhelanKA7]

Nice explanation. I am striving for beer perfection personally. The idea that extract and pellet hops would ever get me there is like thinking Hormel chili is the same as the winner of the chili cook off.

There's nothing wrong with pellet hops. In fact you get better utilization with pellets than with any other type of hops.

 

[Rehlgood]

I just made the switch 2 weeks ago and I love it. I enjoy the entire process and see it as a time to be by myself and relax. The equipment was not a big issue. I have a 7 gallon pot and did full boil 5 gallon extract brews on the stove top. The only things I needed were a mash tun and wort chiller. I made my tun and got a chiller for $60. My first AG brew took 6 hours and my second took 4 hours. After I got the process down it all went smoothly including the cleanup. If you enjoy your time spent brewing and don't mind it taking longer I say go for it.

 

[cheezydemon3]

IMO, it's 200% worth it...

I see it akin to cooking. Sure, you can get stuff from a jar/can, heat it up and maybe make a side dish and call it your own. But it's not really, and it will only be as good as the canned/jar ingredients. With all grain, you're making it all (the only thing you're not doing is malting the grain). Pasta sauce is a great example. You can do a quick meal from a jar. But you can have an excellent dinner when you make the sauce yourself, from scratch. Having that level of ingredient control means you'll get EXACTLY what you want. Personally, I make my own sauce, so going all grain was a natural progression for me (did it after three extract [with specialty grains] and one partial mash batch). Haven't looked back since.

Ahem......as an accomplished chef.....

AG is like stewing your own fresh tomatoes and making sauce.

Extract is like starting with a can of contadina crushed tomatos (stewed) and making sauce from there.

A novice can make a terrible sauce from fresh tomatoes, a good cook can take a can of tomatoes, fresh oregano, basil, salt pepper, garlic, onion, peppers etc. and make a world class sauce.

 

[ABrewingApe]

All-grain can be worth it or not; depends what you're going for. Me, I consider a by-the-book mash to be one of the least interesting and most finicky parts of brewing, so I save it for specialty grains and use extract to get me quickly and reliably to the parts of brew day I love.

(i.e. adjuncts, shenanigans, and hauling heavy crap)

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

I would say yes it is totally worth it. Along with what everyone else has said, for me it was the catalyst that pushed me to take a deep dive into Brewing. To be honest I found extract brewing to be a bit boring. AG really sparked my interest, and I've pretty much brewed every other weekend for the last 4 years after switching to AG.

 

[fletchsj]

I currently do extract brewing with partial mashing if the recipe calls for it. my main question in deciding on if all grain brewing is worth the extra equipment, time, etc. I know the quality is better with all grain generally if you know what your are doing but have never done any all grain brews, so my main question is it worth the extra hour or 2 you have in an all grain brew day vs. doing an extract brew

So first off it really depends on what you desire from brewing... Does it take more equipment? Sure, but not that much. You really only need one extra vessel. (i'm sure I'll get flamed here, lol) and at that you could do BiaB and eliminate that extra vessel... as far as cost of that equipment goes... I've made mash tuns for 10 bucks... and others for well over a hundred. depends on how complex and fancy you want it. Does it take time? a little... The funny thing is people have been brewing for hundreds of years and some habits die hard. The mash/sparge only really requires 20-30 min, most will have you believe it takes at least a hour for a mash and if you fly sparge it will take another 30-60 min. lol (again i'll probably get flamed) Modern malts in lab settings are fully converted in 10 min or sometimes less. I mash 20 min then recirc while I set up other stuff. and I batch sparge so total around 30, sometimes faster. But, my iodine tests show full conversion by 20 min every time. After that it's just like a regular extract brewday.

My brewday is often less than 3:15 with clean up time included. I know folks who take that long with extract beers... I have done well with my beers at comps and friends and neighbors love my beer. Can you complicate things and take more time, money, equipment? sure and sometimes that is part of the fun. Just don't get scared off by equipment, time, or money. If you make the jump god luck to you I wish you nothing but success and great beer!

 

[pm5k00]

YES. Yes. yes, it is worth it. the grains cost much less than extract, and you have more control over the final product. Most brew days are about 5 hours, but I have been done in under 4 with shorter boils, and or mash times.

 

[Zuljin]

Yes.

A mash tun can be made on the cheap from an ice chest and some pipe. There's also the Boil In A Bag method. I haven't done BIAG, but it looks legit.

More ingredient choices and more control over them.

If your LHBS has a mil, you don't need one.

 

[copyright1997]

I do all grain for a couple reasons:
1. Postive: I like having more control over grains, proportions, mash temperature, and so on. Negative: More things you can mess up.
2. Positive: I'm cheap, and by doing all grain + yeast re-use + group buys of grains/hops, I have my typical 5 gallon batch cost under $15 (not including propane). Negative: I have over 400# of grains in my basement, a sh_t load of buckets, a vacuum sealer (on my 2nd one) for grains and hops, a refrigerator full of washed yeast and a freezer full of vacuum sealed hops. If I save any more money, I'll need to get an extra job!

 

[LandoLincoln]

I currently do extract brewing with partial mashing if the recipe calls for it. my main question in deciding on if all grain brewing is worth the extra equipment, time, etc. I know the quality is better with all grain generally if you know what your are doing but have never done any all grain brews, so my main question is it worth the extra hour or 2 you have in an all grain brew day vs. doing an extract brew

I've yet to see someone say, "I wish I had never switched from extract to all grain."

I've seen lots of people say, "I wish I had gone all grain sooner."

 

[DaveM77]

I think partial mash is a great compromise, not much time / expense added to the overall process and it does give you the opportunity to shape the beer with the specialty grains and get a little more flavor control.

 

[ArcticBear]

When I share my beers with folks and tell the, I brewed it, and when they taste it, the look of surprise and how much they are enjoying it solidifies the move to AG.

Take the plunge.

pretty much the same reason i was all about making the switch

What I find interesting is that for me at least extract brewing flat sucked. Having to reconstitute a thick syrup or a DME is a pain. What's easy about that? Then the crap scorches on your pan if you aren't careful with the heat. Oh boy we are having fun here! Yikes. I did two and switched to AG and have Never Looked Back.

it certainly saves you time and space keeping with extracts, but most of the fun of brewing comes from the process (as well as the result) and the process is cut well in half using extracts.

if all you cared about was good results, you would just go buy a 6er of your favorite micro brew and call it a day, but you got into brewing to enjoy the subtleties that come from the hard work and process, not just the finished product, and there is certainly more process and hard work to be proud about when doing all grain

 

[beerloaf]

AG is well worth it. I like the ability to tweak my process to try new things to add different grains for specific tastes as well as the ability to get close to some of the original recipes. Using extract, really limits your knowledge of what is in that extract. It may be an amber extract or a pilsen extract but which grain is it made with? What else was added to it? Did the extract come from a single source or was it a mix of different grain, non of which you will actually be able to identify. Don't get me wrong, there is absolutely nothing wrong with extract brewing and I have made a lot of really great beer with using extract. Most find that as you advance in brewing, they want to get involved in the process a little more. Believe me I've had some AG brew days when I was wishing that I was brewing extract vs AG due to the time and cleanup involved. I agree with teh previous posters that partial is a great compromise.

beerloaf

 

[Bernie Brewer]

I think partial mash is a great compromise, not much time / expense added to the overall process and it does give you the opportunity to shape the beer with the specialty grains and get a little more flavor control.

See now I disagree. You are going through all the motions of mashing, sparging, etc, to get your wort, then adding extract. And it does indeed take the same amount of time as a full AG batch. To me that defeats the purpose of going through the work of mashing.

 

[CryoEng]

Going strictly by comments made by friends/family on my results:

Most impact to least impact:

1) Going from bottling to kegging/force carbonation.

2) Controlling fermentation temps (from water baths, etc. to controlled fridge).

3) Pitching the right amount of yeast (from smack pack to starter to starter/stir plate, etc.).

4) Going from partial mash to all grain.

All grain seemed to make a difference. Friends liked the beer better, but other things made bigger difference... it seemed.

It's fun!

 

[amandabab]

I've yet to see someone say, "I wish I had never switched from extract to all grain."

I've seen lots of people say, "I wish I had gone all grain sooner."

all switching to all grain did for me was to make me brew less and less. No real quality upgrade, no winter brewing, Fast extract days started happening more and more until all grain just wasn't getting done at all after a couple years. the important part is the boil and fermentation and no one really picks their all grain ingredients based on quality anyways, they buy the same 2/6row from the same 2-3 maltsters from whatever retailer has it the cheapest.

the fresh barley we harvest here, has to be shipped all the way to Wisconsin and back before we can mash those fresh ingredients, that are so much fresher than the extract that comes from Wisconsin

 

[worksnorth]

all switching to all grain did for me was to make me brew less and less. No real quality upgrade, no winter brewing, Fast extract days started happening more and more until all grain just wasn't getting done at all after a couple years. the important part is the boil and fermentation and no one really picks their all grain ingredients based on quality anyways, they buy the same 2/6row from the same 2-3 maltsters from whatever retailer has it the cheapest.

Well, I'm not sure about the last part here, perhaps the quality part is correct because I don't have control of it per se.
However, if I hadn't started AG brewing I would never have found out that I didn't like Marris Otter as a base grain. At all.
I also can pick out store bought Craft beers which are made with Marris Otter and recognise it, and understand why I don't care for them.
So I guess it's partly an education process on beer ingredients too, finding out what you like and don't like.
Anyway.
Cheers

 

[Shooter]

See now I disagree. You are going through all the motions of mashing, sparging, etc, to get your wort, then adding extract. And it does indeed take the same amount of time as a full AG batch. To me that defeats the purpose of going through the work of mashing.

I've found that it depends on your PM method. For me, since I have to transport, setup, clean, and take down my MLT and HLT setup every time I brew, I've found doing a stovetop PM can save me a fair amount of time, easily an hour at minimum. I have also done partial mashes for really big beers using my full setup and, you are correct, it was no difference time wise than a normal AG day.

 

[copyright1997]

Well, I'm not sure about the last part here, perhaps the quality part is correct because I don't have control of it per se.
However, if I hadn't started AG brewing I would never have found out that I didn't like Marris Otter as a base grain. At all.
I also can pick out store bought Craft beers which are made with Marris Otter and recognise it, and understand why I don't care for them.
So I guess it's partly an education process on beer ingredients too, finding out what you like and don't like.
Anyway.
Cheers

Your post made me laugh as I was just about to post that all grain let's me brew with non 2-row base malts, like my favorite (TF Maris Otter).

 

[Golddiggie]

all switching to all grain did for me was to make me brew less and less. No real quality upgrade, no winter brewing, Fast extract days started happening more and more until all grain just wasn't getting done at all after a couple years. the important part is the boil and fermentation and no one really picks their all grain ingredients based on quality anyways, they buy the same 2/6row from the same 2-3 maltsters from whatever retailer has it the cheapest.

No real quality upgrade... Wow... Completely untrue for me.
No winter brewing... Why no winter brewing? Don't you have things like jackets where you are? I brew year round. Just means I need to adjust the mash slightly when I'm brewing in cold weather (under 20F). I have insulation I can add to the mash tun above what it already has for that. Easy as you can get.
the important part is the boil and fermentation... While the boil and fermentation ARE important, so is mashing the grains to get what you want. Using extract you're getting what someone else thinks you should use. Sorry, not for me.
no one really picks their all grain ingredients based on quality anyways... WTF?? I pick my grain BECAUSE of the quality of it. I pick my two base malts from one specific maltster every time I've purchased grain (I go in on group buys for this reason). The other grains I purchase come from either the same maltster, or one of two others. For me, quality and consistency of ingredient, as well as ensuring it's as fresh as possible are two of the reasons why I brew all grain. I crush the grains I'm using the same day/evening I'm brewing. Typically within 1-2 hours of when I actually start mashing.
I also get my hops in bulk, but break them up into 1-2oz bags (vacuum packed) as soon as I've opened the larger bag. They stay in the freezer too, to ensure freshness.

the fresh barley we harvest here, has to be shipped all the way to Wisconsin and back before we can mash those fresh ingredients, that are so much fresher than the extract that comes from Wisconsin

Then why don't you USE those grains instead of the extract??? Seems more than foolish, IMO, to use inferior ingredients in a brew when you have fresher available. Provided you WANT to use the fresher grain. Personally, I'm not using US 2-row in my batches.

Seriously sounds like you don't have the right personality, or care enough, to brew all grain. Which is fine IF that's what you like to do. But, don't discount, or look down your nose at people that spend a bit more time, energy, effort, and CARE more about what goes into their brews. If I brew something and decide I want more or less body, I simply adjust the mash temp accordingly. I change nothing else and I'll see the effect of that one change. You, going with extract brewing, don't have that flexibility (at all).

 

[amandabab]

no one really picks their all grain ingredients based on quality anyways... WTF?? I pick my grain BECAUSE of the quality of it.

When was the last time you were at an elevator? picked or discarded a lot because spore count, moisture based on weight per cubic foot, hauler certificates.? You haven't. You buy whats in the sack based on the retailer and claim its picking based on quality. I've spent a lot more time with grain than anyone in MA.

 

[Golddiggie]

I've spent a lot more time with grain than anyone in MA.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the sign of a true ********...

BTW, I don't need to be up to my armpits in grain year after year to feel valid with my thoughts and my findings. I also don't need obscure references to make myself feel smarter. I have enough batches under my belt (or over it) to be able to tell the difference between grain I get via the group grain buys, stored properly, and the stuff the LHBS sells (your 'cheapest seller')...

Last post you'll see from me on this thread. I was going to post up more about why, but I feel it will be lost on the person it was going to be posted for. Keep brewing extract if you are looking for a quick batch. If you're limited due to family commitments, you have my sympathy and hope that you can [some day] brew all grain and see for yourself the difference.

BTW, there's a reason why breweries don't brew extract base with a few grains for flavors. There's a reason why they mash the grain for the brews. Obviously, they don't mind if it takes a bit longer to process the grain, compared with buying it already done. Also, if it wasn't safe to store grain as it is, either in sacks, other sealed containers (buckets, barrels, etc.) or silo's, health departments would be shutting down breweries left and right.

Also, I'm NOT buying my base malts, from a retailer. I'm part of group grain purchases that comes from the distributor. I guess that's too foreign a concept for you. I will purchase smaller amounts of grain (typically 5-10# at a time) from vendors I've used before, and have come to trust. That being said, I'm STILL getting grains from specific malting companies. Most often it's because they are the only ones who offer the grain I'm buying.

/Transmission

 

[bottlebomber]

Never mind, there's been enough flame wars lately...

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

Yes

 

[flananuts]

And the thread goes sideways.....

I prefer AG but to each their own

 

[passedpawn]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the sign of a true ********...

She stated an opinion about all grain brewing. Whether her opinion was right or misinformed, you shouldn't attack another brewer here. Yes, that's what you did. You took a short reply and picked it apart with your angry essays. Hmmm.

 

[grndslm]

Going strictly by comments made by friends/family on my results:

Most impact to least impact:

1) Going from bottling to kegging/force carbonation.

2) Controlling fermentation temps (from water baths, etc. to controlled fridge).

3) Pitching the right amount of yeast (from smack pack to starter to starter/stir plate, etc.).

4) Going from partial mash to all grain.

All grain seemed to make a difference. Friends liked the beer better, but other things made bigger difference... it seemed.

It's fun!

I like this post a lot!!!

I'm trying to avoid going to kegs, tho. I think bottling in 22oz bottles actually produces a SUPER-Beer.

But I will definitely be moving toward temp controlling the fermentation.

 

[CryoEng]

Thanks grndslm. I sincerely appreciate the comments.

Don't get me wrong, I've gotten nice compliments with bottled beer as well.
I've never entered any contests, but something worked ok.

If you can add a bit of temp control, cool! See what you think about the impact. I'd be interested to know if you think it made the same level of difference. Maybe I had another issue that was addressed at the same time?? It's all good.

I'm frankly amazed at the number of people who complain about the various efforts involved in brewing. I'm fairly certain it is possible to obtain beer, packaged and ready to drink!

Every step I took was based on budget and space, but time and effort was never really an issue. However, I'm one of those who can spend a Saturday working on a piece of perforated metal for a screen or just play with yeast. Getting something to drink is just what happens when I'm finished having fun.

All grain did add to my fun and success, but anything that gives me another avenue to experiment/study will lead me to it.

This is a great hobby. So many different levels and paths to take, and generally, results in an actual product to take pride in and enjoy.

If you can, give all grain a go. Why not?

Cheers

 

[Shooter]

Keep brewing extract if you are looking for a quick batch. If you're limited due to family commitments, you have my sympathy and hope that you can [some day] brew all grain and see for yourself the difference.

So, uh, I brew whatever I have time for, PM, Extract, AG, can't I get any love?!?!?

BTW, there's a reason why breweries don't brew extract base with a few grains for flavors.

This is true, that reason...the almighty dollar!!! HALLELUJAH!!! Can I get a witness from the congregation? :rockin: