Is Fast Pitch canned wort coming back?

[Sbe2]

I never purchased any of NB's fast pitch canned starter wort, but I have been making my own for the last year to two years. I follow the instructions that Drew Beechum made.

Canned Starter Wort Instructions

Over the course of a few nights I make enough to get me through the year. It works great, I love how easy it is to make and use. I thought I would throw it out there for others who may not be aware of it. Cheers!

Your link is bad I think

 

[pshankstar]

Your link is bad I think

I think they are having problems with their website. I was able to verify it this morning before posting it, then it wasn't working. Then their page crapped out when I tried searching for the article using the search function on their homepage. I have it saved to OneNote and I will see if I can convert the article to PDF and upload it here.

 

[treacheroustexan]

Your link is bad I think

Link works fine for me.

 

[pshankstar]

Link works fine for me.

Yeah the link worked now for me, but I did upload a PDF of the instructions in my previous post. Cheers!

 

[Sbe2]

Huh must be my phone, thanks for the pdf

 

[clintf]

Fast Pitch is back on NB's website.

 

[BrewinSoldier]

Totally forgot about this thread. That's interesting..only 4 packs in stock and they've went up $2 putting the cans at $3/can now. The 24 packs are still out of stock so I imagine they'll be back on there soon. $2.29/can if you buy it that way. Not too bad and I'll but then that way. I believe those went up $5 but I can't remember the price before(think it was $49.99 IIRC).

 

[Morrey]

Totally forgot about this thread. That's interesting..only 4 packs in stock and they've went up $2 putting the cans at $3/can now. The 24 packs are still out of stock so I imagine they'll be back on there soon. $2.29/can if you buy it that way. Not too bad and I'll but then that way. I believe those went up $5 but I can't remember the price before(think it was $49.99 IIRC).

I hate to be a killjoy regarding the return of Fast Pitch, but I felt so BS'd by all of this out of stock yada yada, I haven't ordered a single item from Northern Brewer since. In fact, I have long since canned my own concentrated wort starter and cant be more pleased. I have an electric Cuisinart pressure cooker, so I started using it for canning wort by the case. In a pint jar I add 1 c of DME along with a pint of distilled water. Shake it up with the lid in place and set timer on high for 20 minutes. When used, the concentrated starter wort is diluted with another pint of water to give me a 1 liter 1.040 starter. I have used my canned starter since the NB out of stock issue, and dare say I have saved a ton of cash plus the satisfaction of making my own starter in a convenient format. Their loss...my gain.

 

[BrewinSoldier]

I hate to be a killjoy regarding the return of Fast Pitch, but I felt so BS'd by all of this out of stock yada yada, I haven't ordered a single item from Northern Brewer since. In fact, I have long since canned my own concentrated wort starter and cant be more pleased. I have an electric Cuisinart pressure cooker, so I started using it for canning wort by the case. In a pint jar I add 1 c of DME along with a pint of distilled water. Shake it up with the lid in place and set timer on high for 20 minutes. When used, the concentrated starter wort is diluted with another pint of water to give me a 1 liter 1.040 starter. I have used my canned starter since the NB out of stock issue, and dare say I have saved a ton of cash plus the satisfaction of making my own starter in a convenient format. Their loss...my gain.

Interesting...so a few questions on that note.

1. I have a 6qt Instapot so I would imagine it would be the same time settings?

2. How many jars can you fit in it at a time?

3. Do you put the lids on and then screw the cap band all the way on? Also, are you reusing the lids?

4. Will doing this kill any nasty stuff and botulism? Do you take them out after and let them cool naturally or ice bath?

5. How do you store them and how ling do they last?

6. Would RO water be fine instead of distilled?

I may do this as well. I would like to do as many jars as possible if it's going to take that long, so may even invest in a way larger pressure cooker.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a pint jar only hold a pint of liquid? How are you fitting a pint of water plus 1 cup of DME into a pint sized jar?

 

[Morrey]

Interesting...so a few questions on that note.

1. I have a 6qt Instapot so I would imagine it would be the same time settings?

2. How many jars can you fit in it at a time?

3. Do you put the lids on and then screw the cap band all the way on? Also, are you reusing the lids?

4. Will doing this kill any nasty stuff and botulism? Do you take them out after and let them cool naturally or ice bath?

5. How do you store them and how ling do they last?

6. Would RO water be fine instead of distilled?

I may do this as well. I would like to do as many jars as possible if it's going to take that long, so may even invest in a way larger pressure cooker.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a pint jar only hold a pint of liquid? How are you fitting a pint of water plus 1 cup of DME into a pint sized jar?

In my Cuisinart electric pressure cooker, I can fit four pint jars in at a time. I then set on high for 20 minutes of pressure. The timer begins when the temp gets up to speed.

I screw down the lid "finger tight" when first placing in cooker as this will give the contents some room for venting when heated. After the jars cool naturally on my countertop at room temp, they have an audible POP and the lid sucks down ensuring a good seal. At that point, I tighten the lid down more tightly.

When you remove the jars after 20 min of pressure cooking, the contents of the jars may be boiling. This pretty well should kill any nasties that could contaminate your product. I have kept the jars for 6 months in my room temp pantry, and by making a 12 jar case at a time, I use it up before it gets too old. The way the product looks after 6 months, I think it will last much longer maybe a year or more?

I start with fresh lids each time I seal. You can buy rings and lids in boxes w/o the need to buy jars too. New lids are recommended to ensure good sealing.

A 1 pound bag of DME is split evenly between 4 pint jars. This equals to roughly a cup of DME per jar or 112 -113 grams per jar. Put DME in first then, then fill with RO or distilled water to 1/2" from top to allow room for expansion, then finger tighten lid. Shake well to dissolve. When cooking, the boiling action inside the jar will mix more thoroughly. I buy a bag of 3# of DME so this makes a dozen jars which is my normal batch size. This will last me around 6 months since I use dry yeast frequently as well.

When stored, you'll see some settling of the DME in the jar, so shake it well before adding into flask. Add the contents of the jar, then fill the flask to the one liter line with water (RO or DI) to give you one liter of 1.040 wort to begin your starter.

If you are a high volume brewer or make big starters, you may want to invest in a large pressure canner. You could use a quart jar with 2 cups of DME to make a 2L starter if you went this route. That goal depends on your brewing size and habits, but canning starter wort has worked well for me.

 

[pshankstar]

I have a large Instant Pot, I think the 8 quart size. I was going to use it to make my starter wort but read they do not hold the pressure needed to do canning for acidic foods. I believe it needs to hold around 15psi and the instant pots only hold around 12psi. Quickly looking here is a link talking about the newest model may be able to safely can but it’s not approved by the FDA. Just quickly skimmed the article below.

https://www.cnet.com/news/instant-pot-max-home-canning-safety/

For the last few years I followed these instructions on how to make your own starter wort and it has worked out great.

https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/starter-made-easy-pressure-cooking-your-starter-wort-ahead-time

I barrow my neighbor’s pressure canner to ensure I can my starter wort properly even though I have an Instant Pot. I have read others have found a pressure canner at Goodwill or other second hand stores for cheap.

I hope this information helps! My biggest concern is the Instant Pot not really being a “pressure canner”.

 

[BrewinSoldier]

Yeah, honestly I go through way too much wort on a starter to make it worth doing in an Instapot anyways. I'm going to pick up the All American 41qt pressure canner. It's pricey at ~$500 shipped but I just upgraded to 10gallon and 1/2 BBL batches so the yeast is getting really expensive even with making starters, not to mention a PITA making a starter big enough. I've recently been reading quite a bit into harvesting yeast but it's not really something I want to do because there is no way of calculating your yeast cell count that way(in our scale without expensive lab equipment). What I'm thinking of doing now is pitching new yeast into a large starter(I have two 6L flasks) but only one Maelstrom stir plate, and building up a bunch of yeast even if I have to step it up a few times. Then while it's mixed really well, I can distribute those in to sterilized Mason jars evenly and know my yeast count per jar. Store those in the keezer with a born on date and yeast cell count, then grab one of the jars and recalculate, then step it up one more time before pitching. It will be a lot less money on yeast but I'll need quite a bit of starter and I don't want to have to make them each time. That would be way too much work and I don't have time for that. The 41qt All American canner allows you to stack and can fit 32 pint jars at a time, or 19 of the quart jars at a time. This would make it well worth it to me. It can do 15PSI but I'm not sure how long I'd need to do it at that?

Anyways, that's where I think I'm headed.

 

[Morrey]

Based on your brewing volumes, @BrewinSoldier, I completely agree a AA Pressure Canner is the way to go. A small countertop pressure cooker like the Cuisinart I use is way too small for you.

I did call Cuisinart to find out the details of my cooker which includes the pressure and temperature it develops on high. It was satisfactory to can regarding safety of the wort, but the volume (jars it holds) is quite low as we discussed.

Good luck on your AA Pressure Canner.....top of the line!!

 

[BrewinSoldier]

Alright gonna post a little update on this.

Morrey, I have a feeling your pressure cooker isn't actually getting to 15PSI. I did my batch last night and went with 114g per pint jar of extra light pilsner DME. There is a big difference in color in those of us using an actual pressure canner at 15psi/250°F and your pressure cooker. The only thing I can attribute this to is the PSI these are cooking at which is why we are getting such a different outcome.

Also, there is a ton of crud that settles out and floats around the can. With the NB stuff, not only are we getting a lighter color but no floaties. I have a really big feeling when they say they are pasteurizing their cans, that is exactly what they are doing. They are not boiling with pressure canners which means they are not getting to the temps to kill botulism, they are only getting rid of the other nasties we don't want in our beer that can grab ahold and take it to a bad place. I'm not sure how they are getting around this, but I'm a little worried about that. I have a feeling theirs being so clear has to do with them using LME instead of DME, or also a combo of temps.

Here's a few pics of what mine came out like.

 

[mongoose33]

I did a thread on my attempts here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/pressure-canned-starter-wort-why-so-dark.644852/

I also had a very dark-looking outcome, and there seemed to be significant....Maillard reactions?....in the outcome, i.e., there's a rather dark flavor/aroma coming from it. Since I pitch the entire liter of starter into my beer, I haven't been willing to let such a pitch change the underlying flavor. I suppose if I did my rye beer it might be ok in that.

Here's what mine looked like:

 

[BrewinSoldier]

I did a thread on my attempts here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/pressure-canned-starter-wort-why-so-dark.644852/

I also had a very dark-looking outcome, and there seemed to be significant....Maillard reactions?....in the outcome, i.e., there's a rather dark flavor/aroma coming from it. Since I pitch the entire liter of starter into my beer, I haven't been willing to let such a pitch change the underlying flavor. I suppose if I did my rye beer it might be ok in that.

Here's what mine looked like:

View attachment 589680

I actually read through your whole thread yesterday. That's why I figure it has to be a temperature thing. I would try lowering the PSI on a batch to say 10PSI to get a lighter color, but then we aren't hot enough to kill botulism and that's not something I'm willing to risk.

I do have a few things I'd like to try though to see how it effects the dark color and flavor issue. I usually decant but there are times when I just don't have the time to cold crash it and let it settle prior, so I pitch it all. I won't do it using this method the way it sits.

Here's idea #1- I will try using NB LME and brew up a few gallon batch with RO water, and get the pH dialed in. I need to look more into the acid level/psi stuff. If we can adjust the acid level to where it's higher, then we wouldn't have to pressure can at such a high temp/psi.

Idea#2- Do a small modified brewday using 2 row or pilsner malt(I'll probably use pilsner to try and keep it as light as possible). Do a mash and adjust water as I normally would, but adjust ph to get it to 4.3-4.5 pH. Then do the 90 minute boil(due to using pilsner malt) and shoot for a gravity of 1.080-1.084 which shouldn't be hard since you can just keep boiling till you get there since you have no hops to worry about IBUs. Then transfer it to jars and pressure can it. Again, I'd need to look into the whole acidity/psi thing to see where I'd need to be. According to the canning manual, it says "acid foods" with enough acid to result in a pH of 4.6 or lower can be canned just using a hot water bath method. Then it refers to "low-acid foods" as foods with an acid level of 4.6 or above. It says these need to be pressure canned.

If you get it down to below 4.6 with a concentrated wort, then add a bunch of 6.8 or so water when making your starter it should bring the pH up to around 5.somthing in theory but it's definitely something to experiment with.

I'm wondering if that's how NB might be getting away with only pasteurizing their canned wort?

I may order another 4 pack of cans from NB so I can test the pH level of theirs to see where it's at. If it is actually below the 4.6 pH mark, I'll know that's how they are getting away with it. If it's above, well that's something to think about before buying it.

 

[BrewinSoldier]

So ill go ahead and bring this back up. I brewed a batch of Pale Ale on Saturday with some guys from my brew club .My ingredient to bring was yeast, so I made a yeast starter using one of the previous canned starter worts that I made. Still super unhappy with the results of using DME as a base. I started talking about making starters when the guys came over to brew and they saw a huge pressure canner sitting in my garage lol

Come to find out, one of the guys makes starters using his pressure canner as well. He does it differently though. He makes an all grain batch using 2 row, mashes like normal for 45 minutes and then boils for 5 minutes. Then into jars and pressure cans at 15psi for 15 minutes. Here is a picture of what his come out like and I 100% prefer his over the ones I made. He also makes his at 1.040SG so he has to use several jars per starter(which I'd like to eliminate that).

That said, I'd still like to try to cutback on having a full brewday just to make starter wort so I'm going to order some liquid malt extract and dextrose. Plugging it into Brewersfriend, using a
9.15lb jug of the stuff from northern brewer, and 2.2lbs of dextrose would put me at a 1.084 SG which is what the cans of Fast Pitch are at. Add a little yeast nutrient into that as well and you're good. Then I could just throw everything into the boil kettle without having to mash and stuff..one kettle cleanup. 5 gallons would cost me ~$40 to make using LME and dextrose.

If I went the all grain route, it would take 14lbs of grain and cost about $10(I buy my grain in bulk 55lb sacks at $0.72/lb).

Anyways, just thought I'd share and I'll post back once I get around to doing it.

 

[gromitdj]

For those following this thread, and are interested in pre-canned wort; I just saw that MoreBeer is carrying a similar product.

Propper Starter Condensed Wort by Omega Yeast

And it's today's deal of the day. $10.99/4pack.

 

[BrewinSoldier]

Just figured I'd post a quick update. My new 4 pack of Fast Pitch came in today. Guess what???? I was right. The pH of the concentrated wort in the can is 4.54 which comes in lower than 4.6, so botulism cannot take over due to the acid level. That's how they are getting away with it which is what I figured. Once I mix the 16oz of RO water into the wort, the pH jumped to ~4.59-4.60.

I also noticed that with one can of wort and one full can of RO water, it only gave me just a hair over 800ml in the flask. I went ahead and added enough water to bring it up to 1L and checked the gravity of the mixed solution. It was at 1.032 SG.

So my thought process now is to brew and all grain or LME batch(probably all grain) using a good quality 2 row like rahr. I'll get the mash pH down to 4.5, do a quick 10 minute boil and add in some yeast nutrients. Then I'll put it into jars straight from the boiling kettle and throw the jars into a water bath to pasteurize. Something along those lines.

I may just mash, boil, and pressure can. It all comes down to what is going to be faster. Anyways, just thought I'd share my findings.

 

[Beer-lord]

I've not used Fast Pitch in years but last night, made a starter with it. It's working great but it's not something I will use all the time. I'll keep some here when I need to shave some time off of a starter but I try to plan my brew days ahead (not always possible) and having some around will be worth it.