Is double crush a waste of time?

[Dhm8484]

I just got 9 pounds of grain at my local brew shop and I asked him to double milk he said if would be like dust. He has his set at right gap smaller than .35. It looks to be a decent crush I'll see what I get for efficiency

 

[North_of_60]

I don’t think there is any danger of turning your grains to dust doing a double crush at .035. I’ve read on this forum that BIAB brewers set their mill at .020 to .028. My mill should be here soon, so I’ll set it somewhere in between and see how it goes.

I have always done a 90 minute mash with the coarse double crush and get 76 to 78% efficiency. I’ll try a 60 minute mash when I get my mill and see how that compares.

 

[Dhm8484]

Yea he is a cool guy and happy to answer questions so I'll take his word for it, there a malting company close to us, the head malter said to tighten gap up for his malts so he did. He wasn't sure where it was set just said smaller than .035

 

[MaxStout]

Double-crushing doesn't necessarily make the crush smaller. It just helps to ensure that a higher percentage of grains are crushed to a given size. A 0.035" gap won't turn it into dust from double-crushing. In fact, that gap is a bit on the wide side for BIAB.

 

[Dhm8484]

He said he knows his is smaller than .035 but couldn't find his feeler gauges to measure because I wanted to know for my notes

 

[RichardM]

Were you getting your grains crushed at the place in Carrolton? If you don't mind me asking.

 

[Dhm8484]

No I'm in altoona

 

[North_of_60]

Mine was in Haltom City. It’s a great brew store. They have good prices and a huge selection of everything. I’ve cooled off since I vented about the double crush attitude. I’ll continue to buy my grains from them when my mill gets here.

After some more research I think I’ll start of setting the rollers on the mill with a credit card and go from there.

 

[NitrogenWidget]

I went and got my own corona mill, some food grade buckets from HD and a drill from harbor freight.
I double crush my own and am happy with the results.
doesn't take long either.

I got it ahead of time because I plan to eventually buy grains in bulk once I figure out which beers I want to keep on hand regularly.
Right now i'm experimenting with different brews so haven't settled on anything yet.

 

[Dhm8484]

Where did you get the mill at?

 

[NitrogenWidget]

Where did you get the mill at?

Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000U5NZ4I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[dmtaylor]

If LHBSs would just set the mill gap properly, then shop owners wouldn't need to complain about everyone asking for a double crush.

 

[Dhm8484]

I was looking at that mill nitrogen how does the crush look have any pictures?

 

[schematix]

and then they'd have noobs complaining about stuck mashes.

 

[NitrogenWidget]

I was looking at that mill nitrogen how does the crush look have any pictures?

I do, but I don't remember if it's after the first run or the second. I was just taking pics for friends but I want to say it's just one run.
I am getting roughly 90% efficiency in my BIAB setup.
here are a few pics though.

 

[Dhm8484]

Hey thanks that's definitely a good crush 90 percent dang I'd be happy with 75 to 80 percent

 

[Jayjay1976]

For the love of pete, buy a cereal killer, lock it down to the smallest setting, and stop submitting your sweet, sweet barley to that stanky communal grain mill at your lhbs. Grist is a deeply personal matter, would you rent underpants? Buy a proper mill already. I love my mill, we have such a great time together the morning of a brew day. It's like a trusty labrador, always eager to join me on my brewing adventures. I feel I speak for a lot of us when I say that a good dependable grain mill is one of those pieces of equipment you'll get sentimental about and an investment you'll never regret.

 

[toddo97]

For the love of pete, buy a cereal killer, lock it down to the smallest setting, and stop submitting your sweet, sweet barley to that stanky communal grain mill at your lhbs. Grist is a deeply personal matter, would you rent underpants? Buy a proper mill already. I love my mill, we have such a great time together the morning of a brew day. It's like a trusty labrador, always eager to join me on my brewing adventures. I feel I speak for a lot of us when I say that a good dependable grain mill is one of those pieces of equipment you'll get sentimental about and an investment you'll never regret.

^This! I used my CK for the first time this weekend and loved it. I even hand cranked to see how that would be and will probably keep doing it that way until my arm gives out!

 

[Jayjay1976]

^This! I used my CK for the first time this weekend and loved it. I even hand cranked to see how that would be and will probably keep doing it that way until my arm gives out!

+1 for hand-cranking! Build some real beer muscles! I do use my beloved BOSCH 18V cordless drill to finish up when I start to break a sweat or really need to hurry.

I watch people dumping sacks of grain into the motorized mill at my LHBS, it's about as passionless as a paper shredder. Nothing about beer making should be cold or transactional.

 

[toddo97]

+1 for hand-cranking! Build some real beer muscles! I do use my beloved BOSCH 18V cordless drill to finish up when I start to break a sweat or really need to hurry.

I watch people dumping sacks of grain into the motorized mill at my LHBS, it's about as passionless as a paper shredder. Nothing about beer making should be cold or transactional.

To be fair, it was only a 3 gallon batch so I imagine once the novelty wears off, I'll start reaching for my power drill! It did make it seem like I was a lot more 'in the process' than just dumping pre-crushed grains.

 

[iahebert]

I must be lucky. My LHBS (the Brew Hut in Aurora, CO) is totally cool when it comes to double milling. They have two self serve mills, and the first time I double milled, they said, "wait, it sounds like the gap isn't fine enough" and then go "oh, are you doing BIAB? Then you're good".

No crap, BS, or anything else, and they said they do the same thing.

 

[Dhm8484]

 

[Dhm8484]

There's the crush I got 1 time through at my brewstore

 

[dmtaylor]

There's the crush I got 1 time through at my brewstore

Looks alright. I've seen better, I've seen worse.

 

[Dhm8484]

Yea just got done with mash I'll see what I get out of it lol

 

[Mer-man]

A LHBS will set it coarse to both save their mill and to get you to buy more malt . . . wait for it . . .


...
assuming you only mash for 60 minutes, which is the standard. Someone earlier touched on a key element: stirring will help hydrate the starch.
Once everything is hydrated and at the temp that the starches gelatinize, osmotic pressure will push the converted sugars into solution.
RDWHAHB

 

[BruceH]

Yesterday I bought yeast, hops and grains for two different beers that I am going to brew. I asked for a double crush because they don’t do a fine crush. Am I wasting everyone’s time asking for this?

Every time I buy grains at this store I get an eye roll or a hesitation on the double crush. Yesterday the guy said, “I’ll double crush it if that’s what you want, but it won’t make any difference.”

I said, “Don’t do it then”.

He said, “No, I’ll do it, I’ll run it three time if that’s what you want, but you won’t be able to tell the difference.

Are BIAB brewers such a small group that homebrew stores don’t need our business?

If not, why not have one mill set up for a fine crush? Then they wouldn’t be asked to do a double crush.

I guess I’ll be buying a grain mill soon. But, I’ll buy my supplies some where else.

I'm brewing in 5 gallon batches with a corona type mill. It takes about 15 minutes of hand cranking to mill 10 lbs. of grain for a batch. Efficiency has been around 75 - 80% using disposable bags. I mash for 90 minutes. Efficiency depends on temps and how much the malt has been kilned.

IIRC the mill was less than $40 shipped. I converted it to run off an electric drill but realized I prefer to crank it by hand so that's how it's set up.

I'm very glad I have the ability to mill. It doesn't have to be expensive to work.

 

[North_of_60]

My Cereal Killer mill arrived yesterday late. I didn’t get to unbox it because I had to leave for Alaska to work. I work pretty much two weeks on, two weeks off. This time I’m on a 16 day shift.

When I get home I’ll set th new mill up and do a finer crush on the grains I already have for a Porter. They were already double crushed and look pretty good. But, I have a new mill, got to use it, right? I’m thinking of setting it with a credit card to start off with. That seems to be a method BIAB brewers are frequently using. I’ll take before and after pictures. But for now, I have to pay the bills.

 

[NTexBrewer]

My Cereal Killer mill arrived yesterday late. I didn’t get to unbox it because I had to leave for Alaska to work. I work pretty much two weeks on, two weeks off. This time I’m on a 16 day shift.

When I get home I’ll set th new mill up and do a finer crush on the grains I already have for a Porter. They were already double crushed and look pretty good. But, I have a new mill, got to use it, right? I’m thinking of setting it with a credit card to start off with. That seems to be a method BIAB brewers are frequently using. I’ll take before and after pictures. But for now, I have to pay the bills.

North_of_60, I shopped at that store and had the same problem asking for double crush. They used to charge extra for a double crush. I stopped asking for the double crush awhile ago. I also recently bought a mill so I can control things better.

I wanted to set the mill properly and the feeler gauge I bought was covered in machine oil. Is this common or do they sell feeler gauges that will not corrode and need to be oiled. No way I’m sticking that in my mill.

 

[North_of_60]

North_of_60, I shopped at that store and had the same problem asking for double crush. They used to charge extra for a double crush. I stopped asking for the double crush awhile ago. I also recently bought a mill so I can control things better.

I wanted to set the mill properly and the feeler gauge I bought was covered in machine oil. Is this common or do they sell feeler gauges that will not corrode and need to be oiled. No way I’m sticking that in my mill.

I have two feeler gauges that are not oily, one is stainless steel and the other is brass. You could wash yours with dish soap and then oil it again after using it if you think it might rust.

I measured a couple of credit cards with a micrometer, they measured .032 I might start with that although I was thinking of setting it a little closer.

What are you thinking of setting yours at?