Is "borrowing" wireless wrong?

[passedpawn]

Hmmm. So, when I turn on the radio in my car, how do I know if I have license to listen to a station of music?

 

[Airborneguy]

Games? I'm serious as a heart attack. What was the point of it?

See above. I guess you just didnt understand...

 

[annasdadhockey]

I think some people are taking this thread personally. You know who u ar

 

[CHefJohnboyardee]

If I'm checking email, who cares? If I'm streaming videoes, Shame on me...

 

[whoaru99]

Who's legislating anything?

A figure of speech.

The net result is blaming the owner of the house for a burglary because he didn't lock the door. While I agree it's a great idea to lock the doors, not doing so isn't license to steal your stuff.

 

[MalFet]

As passedpawn is suggesting, the relevant legal and ethical question is what constitutes a reasonable expectation of privacy in this context. If you decide to broadcast radio signals into the world and have elected to not utilize the simple and effective privacy features built in to every router, that's a clear indication that you are choosing to not make your broadcasts private.

If I were to transmit every argument I have with my wife over shortwave radio, it would be strange for me to get pissed off when people start tuning in.

 

[whoaru99]

The legality is a question, since clearly there are variables in different locales. I see no lack of clarity in the ethical standpoint. Don't take what isn't yours...and I'm not buying that people don't know what's theirs and what's not.

 

[Airborneguy]

I've been resisting throwing this out there, but there's a lot of ignorance of how the legal system works going on in this thread.

There is absolutely not a comparison between the burglary of a private building and accessing a wireless signal which is broadcast into the public realm and is easily captured by common electronic devices.

What's that term? Full disclosure? Interpreting the law is my job and has been for a good while now. I know how these things work. Being righteous rarely means being right.

 

[whoaru99]

I think some people are taking this thread personally. You know who u ar

Seems logical that to stand up for what you believe entails taking things somewhat seriously/personally.

 

[MalFet]

The legality is a question, since clearly there are variables in different locales. I see no lack of clarity in the ethical standpoint. Don't take what isn't yours...and I'm not buying that people don't know what's theirs and what's not.

Who on earth said anything about people who "don't know what's theirs and what's not"? Good gravy, man.

If I thought somebody would be unhappy with my using their wifi, I would consider it wrong of me to do so. But, if they've chosen to broadcast an open network channel into public space, that's as clear a choice as it can be about whether the network is intended to be public or private.

 

[whoaru99]

I've been resisting throwing this out there, but there's a lot of ignorance of how the legal system works going on in this thread.

There is absolutely not a comparison between the burglary of a private building and accessing a wireless signal which is broadcast into the public realm and is easily captured by common electronic devices.

What's that term? Full disclosure? Interpreting the law is my job and has been for a good while now. I know how these things work. Being righteous rarely means being right.

Appeal to Authority? That's fine, sometimes it's appropriate.

Just because something can be done legally doesn't always mean it's the right thing to do.

 

[MalFet]

Seems logical that to stand up for what you believe entails taking things somewhat seriously/personally.

Yeah, but it's a beer forum filled with people who like to sit around and chat about whatever's on their minds. There's really no need to get as mean and nasty about it like this.

 

[whoaru99]

But, if they've chosen to broadcast an open network channel into public space, that's as clear a choice as it can be about whether the network is intended to be public or private.

I disagree. Call it ignorance or plain stupidity, there are lots of people that simply buy a wireless router and hook it up with no understanding of the implication. That's like taking candy from a baby. It's not really an informed choice.

 

[bob1852]

We need an adjunct of the law to interpret this issue for us.

*this message typed using someone's unsecured wireless network*

Not sure if it is my neighbor, the library, a hotel, or the chamber of commerce. It just says "connected to linksys." Probably shouldn't use it since I don't know whose it is.

 

[Airborneguy]

Appeal to Authority? That's fine, sometimes it's appropriate.

Just because something can be done legally doesn't always mean it's the right thing to do.

So then you are arguing ethics, that's fine. But law and ethics are two different things. I haven't been arguing ethics for quite a few pages, but you still seem to have a disagreement with me. So which is it?

 

[bob1852]

I disagree. Call it ignorance or plain stupidity, there are lots of people that simply buy a wireless router and hook it up with no understanding of the implication. That's like taking candy from a baby. It's not really an informed choice.

How 'bout some personal responsibility?

 

[Airborneguy]

We need an adjunct of the law to interpret this issue for us.

Apparently, you haven't been reading...

 

[whoaru99]

How 'bout some personal responsibility?

How about some personal integrity?

 

[MalFet]

I disagree. Call it ignorance or plain stupidity, there are lots of people that simply buy a wireless router and hook it up with no understanding of the implication. That's like taking candy from a baby. It's not really an informed choice.

If you can't figure out how to use your router, I just don't see that as my problem. Perhaps you shouldn't be flooding public space with radio waves if you can't be bothered to understand the equipment.

 

[MalFet]

How about some personal integrity?

You're begging the question.

 

[bob1852]

How about some personal integrity?

How about take 2.4 seconds and protect your wireless.

 

[whoaru99]

Why, it's asking too much to let alone that which isn't yours?

 

[passedpawn]

How about take 2.4 seconds and protect your wireless.

Here you go. No problem:

Your WiFi Router

Check it out! (if it asks for a password, try "admin")

 

[Airborneguy]

Good night, this mental exercise is no longer interesting to me.

 

[MalFet]

Why, it's asking too much to let alone that which isn't yours?

You're missing the point here. Many, many people share their wifi on purpose. If you don't want to be mistaken for people like that, click the little checkbox that says "password". If you can't be bothered to do even that, maybe you shouldn't feel so entitled to pump public spaces (or, worse yet, other people's private spaces) full of radio waves.

 

[whoaru99]

Am I? The OP's question is/was "Is "borrowing" wireless wrong?".

 

[Jukas]

Why, it's asking too much to let alone that which isn't yours?

You seem to be taking this discussion very personally, I'm curious why.

Who stole your intrawebz and slowed down your netflix streaming?

 

[MalFet]

Am I? The OP's question is/was "Is "borrowing" wireless wrong?".

Indeed. What of it?

 

[thadius856]

I have no particular problem if you have a Gentlemen's Agreement to use each other's stuff. However, because that is your way doesn't grant permission to assume it's everybody's way.

Hell yes it does. Every router I've seen shipped in the last... oh, almost 10 years, has come with the security pre-set to 'Enabled' (PSA with key). You have to manually disable security on a modern router for it to be public.

 

[whoaru99]

You seem to be taking this discussion very personally, I'm curious why.

Who stole your intrawebz and slowed down your netflix streaming?

Nobody has stolen any bandwidth from me. I run a pretty tight ship in that regard.

As I mentioned earlier, it seems a very basic principle to me that you don't take what isn't yours without explicit permission so I react strongly to what seems contrary to that.