Is 5 degrees worth $500?

[Strangelove]

Howdy,

My ales ferment in a finished basement laundry room that's usually 68-70 degrees. I've considered getting a chest freezer and temp controller. Is there a big enough difference in beer quality to justify the costs? I figure I'll brew 120 gallons or so next year.

Thanks

 

[Hammy71]

Find an old fridge on Craigslist and find a cheap temperatures controller on eBay. Yes, temperature control is a valuable part of brewing. But don't buy a new fridge.

 

[LKABrewer]

YES. Getting fermentation temperatures under control was the biggest leap my beer has made so far. It shouldn't cost $500, though. Look for an old fridge on CL.

 

[scottland]

Consistent temps are without a doubt worth the cost. But $500? Come back to reality. I bought a Dorm Fridge on craigslist for $25. Built a temp controller for $30.

For $55 it's absolutely worth the money. Clean fermentation is without a doubt the most important part of making good beer. Temperature is one of the most important aspects to that.

 

[xjmox14x]

I think that's a personal decision based on your setup now, and cash and expenses. I ferment in my finished basement. It's actually perfect for me. I set my thermostat for 70 for the rest of the house, and the basement stays at 64, plus or minus one degree. (my thermometer keeps track of high and low temps for 24 hr periods)

So for me, it's not worth it just yet... but everyone says fermentation temps is one of the biggest deciders in beer quality, so if my situation changes I'll have to look into it.

 

[broadbill]

Howdy,

My ales ferment in a finished basement laundry room that's usually 68-70 degrees. I've considered getting a chest freezer and temp controller. Is there a big enough difference in beer quality to justify the costs? I figure I'll brew 120 gallons or so next year.

Thanks

68-70 means anywhere from 73-80 at the peak of fermentation. A ferm temp of 70 is probably a bit too warm, let alone another 10 degrees. The biggest increase in the quality of my beer came when I started regulating fermentation temps.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

FWIW, and I may get flamed for this, I do the same thing you have been doing. I ferment in the basement (5 gallons per fermenter). It stays about 65F on the floor in the summer and between 60-65F on my countertop in the winter. I pitch my yeast at 65 degrees and don't use any other temp control. I'm happy enough with my ALES that I don't see the need to spend more money to shave off a few degrees. If and when I upgrade to conicals, I will most likely incorporate some temp control because of the increased fermenter volume. But until then, my basement is my temp control.

 

[Strangelove]

But $500? Come back to reality. I bought a Dorm Fridge on craigslist for $25. Built a temp controller for $30.

.

I can't 4 primaries into a dorm fridge, unfortunately. I thought about spinning the big Craigslist wheel but I don't want to end up with a POS that either doesn't work or is an energy hog. I'm pretty sure I'm in this for the long haul.

Since I'm trained as a scientist I wonder, has anyone ever fermented the same batch at two temperatures and then done a taste test?

 

[beerman315]

68-70 means anywhere from 73-80 at the peak of fermentation. A ferm temp of 70 is probably a bit too warm, let alone another 10 degrees. The biggest increase in the quality of my beer came when I started regulating fermentation temps.

I've been fermenting my ales in a spare bedroom with it's own electric heat and thermostat. So if a yeast package said a temp to ferment was 64-66°F, I would want to keep the thermostat at 66 to start out, then turn it down maybe 5 degrees once the fermentation really gets going?

I'm planning on building a temp controlled fridge like mentioned above, eventually...

 

[scottland]

Since I'm trained as a scientist I wonder, has anyone ever fermented the same batch at two temperatures and then did a taste test?

Not the exact same batch, but I've done it by accident to the same recipe, it's a night and day difference. Bubblegum esters and phenols, a sharper alcohol character, and just not an enjoyable beer.

This was an amber ale that I normally ferment at 64*, it hit 74* due to my fridge door being left open for 48 hours. I don't think a single person will say they've regretted spending money on temperature control for their ferments.

 

[onthekeg]

Since I'm trained as a scientist I wonder, has anyone ever fermented the same batch at two temperatures and then done a taste test?

There is an article in the Nov/Dec 2011 Zymurgy with this test and results.

 

[JuanMoore]

I can't 4 primaries into a dorm fridge, unfortunately. I thought about spinning the big Craigslist wheel but I don't want to end up with a POS that either doesn't work or is an energy hog. I'm pretty sure I'm in this for the long haul.

Since I'm trained as a scientist I wonder, has anyone ever fermented the same batch at two temperatures and then done a taste test?

As others have said, ferm temp control is one of the biggest factors for producing great beer. My $20 craigslist fridge fits 4 primaries just fine, and when it dies I'll just get another one. You might be surprised how energy efficienct those older fridges actually are, mostly because fridge wall thickness and insulation value has decreased over time.

And yes, I've fermented the same batch at different temps. It's how I came to determine what temp to keep my ferm fridge at. I'm not a scientist, but I like expirimentation. I have a whole bunch of 1 gal growlers that I used to split batches up so that I could compare variables like temp, yeast strain, dry hopping technique, fermentation schedule, etc side by side.

 

[Seven]

I think getting a ferm-chamber and temp controller is worth it. You might be able to find good appliance deals around the holidays.

I noticed a big improvement in my beers once I switched from fermenting at ambient room temps to controlled temps in a ferm-chamber. Many of my room temp beers suffered from a sharp bite from fusel alcohols which are caused by high fermentation temps. Once I got my fermentation temps under control the quality of my brews improved noticeably. To me the beers are now much smoother, cleaner, and no more fusel alcohol bite.

If you do decide to take the plunge I'd recommend a dual-stage temp controller so you can heat AND cool inside your ferm-chamber. A single-stage controller will only allow you to control the cooling.

 

[Strangelove]

So most of you are on the fence... lol.

I guess it's time to start campaigning with the minister of finance.

 

[xjmox14x]

So most of you are on the fence... lol.

I guess it's time to start campaigning with the minister of finance.

Why not look into this? I'm going to look into something similar soon as well.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/smaller-son-fermentation-chiller-79556/

 

[IffyG]

FWIW, you are looking at a lot more than 5 degrees. I have to go down as low as 52* on my temp controller to keep some of my more active fermentations at 64*.

 

[ayoungrad]

I agree with the majority here. Ambient temperature is irrelevant. The advantage of a STABLE, appropriate wort fermentation temperature is by far the most important improvement for homebrewing. I bought a controller for $70 and a used frig for $30. But if I had to replace them again for $500 or even $1000, it would be worth every penny.

 

[Hernando]

FWIW, and I may get flamed for this, I do the same thing you have been doing. I ferment in the basement (5 gallons per fermenter). It stays about 65F on the floor in the summer and between 60-65F on my countertop in the winter. I pitch my yeast at 65 degrees and don't use any other temp control. I'm happy enough with my ALES that I don't see the need to spend more money to shave off a few degrees. If and when I upgrade to conicals, I will most likely incorporate some temp control because of the increased fermenter volume. But until then, my basement is my temp control.

+1 with almost the exact same temps.

 

[beerman315]

FWIW, you are looking at a lot more than 5 degrees. I have to go down as low as 52* on my temp controller to keep some of my more active fermentations at 64*.

I'm not familiar with the temp controllers, but is there any way you could extend the thermocouple into your fermenter?

 

[IffyG]

You can get a thermowell, but most people end up taping their sensor to the side of the carboy with great results. That being said, if you do that, the ambient temp in the fridge will still be much lower than the beer.

 

[daksin]

You could build 4 excellent fermentation chambers from brand new parts for $100. It sounds to me like you WANT to spend a ton of money, but the consensus is that it's 100% unncessary. Do what makes you happy.

 

[Strangelove]

Hey, I don't want to spend ANY money, but that's not an option. If I were a bachelor I'd take any functioning piece of junk and be happy, but this is going to be inside and must meet with the approval of SWMBO.

I'm all for "4 excellent fermentation chambers from brand new parts for $100". Could you give me a link?

 

[dec]

Any links to suggested eBay temp controllers I could use as examples of what to look for.

 

[bja]

If I were a bachelor I'd take any functioning piece of junk and be happy, but this is going to be inside and must meet with the approval of SWMBO.

What are you going to do, keep this thing in your living room?

 

[ayoungrad]

What are you going to do, keep this thing in your living room?

I do. I live in an 1100 square foot apartment with my wife, my daughter and my dog.

My fermentation frig also serves as a stand for my network printer. Space is at a premium for many people.

I got a NuCool frig (search for a link on this site if you are interested) off of craigslist. It's almost silent because it doesn't use a condensor (so no threat of leaking either) and it has a stainless steel front. So it looks unassuming. It is also the smallest size frig you can find to fit a five gallon bucket.

 

[TimT]

Any links to suggested eBay temp controllers I could use as examples of what to look for.

stc-1000 | eBay is the standard for going cheap. Be sure to get the correct voltage as a 220V is not good if you are in the US.

I bought from this fellow All-purpose Temperature Controller STC-1000 With sensor | eBay and shipping was prompt.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

You could build 4 excellent fermentation chambers from brand new parts for $100. It sounds to me like you WANT to spend a ton of money, but the consensus is that it's 100% unncessary. Do what makes you happy.

Please do tell. Parts list and suppliers.

 

[JuanMoore]

So most of you are on the fence... lol.

I guess it's time to start campaigning with the minister of finance.

Doesn't seem like many people on the fence to me. Those who aren't using a ferm chamber have much lower ambient temps than you do to work with.

Any links to suggested eBay temp controllers I could use as examples of what to look for.

Looks like you got the links above for where to buy, but this thread will help if you have trouble wiring it up-

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ebay-aquarium-temp-controller-build-163849/

 

[cwi]

FWIW, you are looking at a lot more than 5 degrees. I have to go down as low as 52* on my temp controller to keep some of my more active fermentations at 64*.

You might look into taping, then insulating, the probe to the side of your carboy/fermentor. That is the primary indicator you should be controlling, not the air temp.

 

[IffyG]

You might look into taping, then insulating, the probe to the side of your carboy/fermentor. That is the primary indicator you should be controlling, not the air temp.

I go by a temp strip on the side of the bucket. I don't really care what the temp controller is set to as long as I'm holding the beer at 64* or so.

Doesn't really matter how I do it if it works for me, the point was that a fermentation chamber lowers the ambient temp way more than a few degrees as stated in the title.

 

[JuanMoore]

Hey, I don't want to spend ANY money, but that's not an option. If I were a bachelor I'd take any functioning piece of junk and be happy, but this is going to be inside and must meet with the approval of SWMBO.

Would she ok a newer fridge? I know my wife would prefer that over a bunch of fermenters sitting in the open. This plus $40 for an e-bay controller and parts puts you at only $120.

 

[cwi]

You could build 4 excellent fermentation chambers from brand new parts for $100. It sounds to me like you WANT to spend a ton of money, but the consensus is that it's 100% unncessary. Do what makes you happy.

Is this the same fermentation chamber build where it ends with the guy buying a chest freezer and demolishing the DIY chamber with a sledge hammer after a few months because the moisture turned it into a moldy rotten mess? It was funny because a bunch or DIY ferm chamber builders were referencing the thread without having read the outcome.

Best option is a chest freezer, or for much cheaper a fridge. The chest freezer has many advantages, but probably the biggest if this is going in a finished space is that it contains accidents.

 

[Strangelove]

I wondered about a fridge. Can I get 4 standard fermenters in a regular fridge? If I could AND if I could use the freezer as a freezer while I use the temp controller for the bottom, that would be ideal.

 

[IffyG]

When you use a temp controller in a fridge, you lose using the freezer as a true freezer. I certainly wouldn't keep food in it.

 

[cwi]

I go by a temp strip on the side of the bucket. I don't really care what the temp controller is set to as long as I'm holding the beer at 64* or so.

Doesn't really matter how I do it if it works for me, the point was that a fermentation chamber lowers the ambient temp way more than a few degrees as stated in the title.

Just trying to save you from having to constantly adjust your controller to maintain a ferm temp. That is what the controller is for. You have a two controller system, you being one of them.

The advice was really more for the OP, since he is new to temp control. You just provided a case study. Do it however you like.

 

[daksin]

http://home.roadrunner.com/~brewbeer/chiller/chiller.PDF

The guide to building SOFC lists the price for all the materials at $60 in 1997. The cost of almost all of the parts has gone down (particularly the electronics) and if you use cheaper insulation material than the very fancy foamboard he uses, there should be no problem building one for half of that if you shop the parts around and don't pay to ship anything.

 

[cwi]

I wondered about a fridge. Can I get 4 standard fermenters in a regular fridge? If I could AND if I could use the freezer as a freezer while I use the temp controller for the bottom, that would be ideal.

It is possible, but not practical. Several sayings apply- there is no free lunch, too good to be true, etc.

Sounds like you will save yourself a lot of grief by bucking up for a used or new chest freezer. It will only take one "accident" to make the extra money for a chest freezer worth the reduced clean up.

 

[IffyG]

Just trying to save you from having to constantly adjust your controller to maintain a ferm temp. That is what the controller is for. You have a two controller system, you being one of them.

The advice was really more for the OP, since he is new to temp control. You just provided a case study. Do it however you like.

If it was constant adjustment I'd do it the way you suggested, but I've found I only have to change the temp twice (once when it takes off and once when it slows down) over the course of the fermentation. For me, this is far less effort than trying to tape the probe to the bucket on the brew day and then removing it later.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

http://home.roadrunner.com/~brewbeer/chiller/chiller.PDF

The guide to building SOFC lists the price for all the materials at $60 in 1997. The cost of almost all of the parts has gone down (particularly the electronics) and if you use cheaper insulation material than the very fancy foamboard he uses, there should be no problem building one for half of that if you shop the parts around and don't pay to ship anything.

There's no way your going to build one of those big enough to hold 4 ferementers for $100. Plus, it's going to take up a lot of space, it's inherently messy, and would require a freezer full of gallon jugs to operate. Better off just getting a freezer and a controller and be done with it.

 

[JuanMoore]

I wondered about a fridge. Can I get 4 standard fermenters in a regular fridge? If I could AND if I could use the freezer as a freezer while I use the temp controller for the bottom, that would be ideal.

Most standard fridges only hold 2-3 fermenters as is, but if you remove the door panel with the shelves and make a small shelf or platform for the fermenters, they'll easily hold 4 fermenters plus a few growlers for test batches/mead/etc. You'd need to do some fancy modifications to still be able to use the freezer portion as a freezer. If kept indoors at a stable temp, and setting the fridge to low 60's for ale fermentation, the freezer compartment will likely stay close to standard fridge temps though.