IPA with Saison Yeast - Opinions please

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

I was thinking I'd try to control the early beginning with swamp cooler, then free rise yes.

After a few brews I spent $20 on an STC 1000 and wired it up to a double outlet, I used a swamp cooler and fan for cooling and a fermwrap for heating, the cooling outlet was hooked to a small fan so it help the 'swamp cooler' work better if it wanted to cool the brew. It was ugly but worked really well for warmer fermenting beer until the fall rolled around and I started using WLP001 with this setup.

 

[govner1]

Weather is HOT. 95+ daily. Most would just wait to brew.



Myself, I'm hooked because I'm new.



What happens if I take a kama citra recipe from northern brewer and use saison yeast rather than the yeast it comes with?



Longer period before drinkable? ...I know the flavor will taste different. I'm picturing a hoppy saison? Or a ipa with the subtle saison funk? Anyone have any experience or thoughts or anything really...

Sounds like a Belgian IPA to me!

 

[thed163]

So the five gallon recipe (things will be halved) arrived today.
My concerns are extract amounts.

Specifically 3lbs liquid extract. Should I use less? Also, SO MANY HOPS. ...
In5 g terms, .5 centennial hops 60 min (maybe okay, as not a lot).
1oz cascade 20 min
Another at 10 min
2oz citra flame out ten minute hop stand
Then one oz citra 1 oz cascade dry hop.

I guess after reading, it's okay since light on bittering hops...

Thoughts? The lme concerns me for some reason. .75oz caramel 40 specialty grain which seems fine but I have no idea honestly

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[m00ps]

I just keep the initial pitch temp controlled, but most of the heat from fermentation comes from early on. Id take advantage of that because those first few days is where most the flavor profile is locked in. Warming it after that period will help it finish, but wont affect the flavor as much. I just pitch at a controlled temp and let it go. But ive read people even pitching into the 80s and being fine

 

[thed163]

So, anyone want to review this recipe?
Concern is cascade specifically. Got 3724 yeast yesterday.

Cascade will clash in flavors I think. I should keep it citrus and fruity... Opinions highly welcomed

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[m00ps]

IMO Nelson would be better suited than cascade for a saison, or at least with that particular yeast. Mosaic is a very good choice too. Its tropical but has an earhy edge to it that will compliment saison esters. I also like Amarillo in saisons. its bright peach/citrus pairs well with some of the lemony character the yeasts can make

 

[thed163]

So I brewed and altered a bit. Being new, I took a lot of advice from lhbs, some from here and some from brewer friends. And winged a bit...

Ibu note at bottom was from a calculator which I'm not sure if I calculated correctly.

Either way it's in the closet bubbling away.

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[thed163]

Realized pictures not very clear.
Late hops are cascade changed from twenty to ten min. Then cascade at FO (Orig was cascade 20 and 10m) and add half oz mosaic at flame out with original 1oz citra.

Decided dry hop will be .5 mosaic and citra. Was cascade. Didn't want too much dry hop as it's a 2.5 gal batch to begin and it'll soak a lot up.

 

[thed163]

So... I brewed this. It's been sitting for about 2 weeks now. First few days, it'd been really hot (perfect). What has happened now, temps dropped.

Bought a bucket, bought an aquarium heater, set it up. Water temps staying steady around 78 deg. Hoping that means 83-88 temps IN fermenter.

With fermentation going this long, I'm hoping I get that great attenuation others have reported with 3724. I had no idea it'd take this long to finish, but it smells INCREDIBLE more so by the day. I have a black trashbag over the top of the bucket also, mainly for light, hopefully insulating a little also.

Waiting to dry hop! Hoping for a very fruity/hoppy, dry, farmhouse ? Will post results once I hit my FG. Refractometer is on the way, should arrive this week.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

Refractometer is on the way, should arrive this week.

FYI I have read many times on here folks saying dont measure FG with a refractometer, the alcohol messes with the reading. They are great and easy for OG reading/checking for gravity during mash/sparge. Get yourself a hydrometer for your FG reading if you dont have one yet.

 

[thed163]

FYI I have read many times on here folks saying dont measure FG with a refractometer, the alcohol messes with the reading. They are great and easy for OG reading/checking for gravity during mash/sparge. Get yourself a hydrometer for your FG reading if you dont have one yet.

We do have one, however, the graduated cylinder cracked (it was that cheap plastic that it came in...) I priced out a new one and it was almost the same amount of a refractometer, so I bought that. I appreciate the heads up, I had not read that yet.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

We do have one, however, the graduated cylinder cracked (it was that cheap plastic that it came in...) I priced out a new one and it was almost the same amount of a refractometer, so I bought that. I appreciate the heads up, I had not read that yet.

Sure thing, the refractometer is an awesome addition to your brewery though, it's sooooo much easier than doing hydrometer readings!

 

[thed163]

Reddit mentioned 3oz dry hop for a 2.5 gal batch would give you a fruity aroma and taste.... LHBS told me they don't recommend due to loss of volume.

Thoughts here? I was planning on an oz (.5 mosaic, .5citra)... should I up that to 1 oz each? 1.5? Thanks in advance for any replies!

 

[thed163]

Hydrometer reading taken last night. 1.012 it's at. Krausen hasn't fallen, so I am hoping it just keeps pluggin along down to 1.004 or so. It's extract, and from what I read, extract doesn't really provide enough sugars to get that low...

But I have faith. It was partial mash, so... Better than all extract. we're at 3 weeks strong on fermentation. Tasted a little rubbing alcoholy, but from what I read, I am hoping it ferments out.

 

[m00ps]

Reddit mentioned 3oz dry hop for a 2.5 gal batch would give you a fruity aroma and taste.... LHBS told me they don't recommend due to loss of volume.

Thoughts here? I was planning on an oz (.5 mosaic, .5citra)... should I up that to 1 oz each? 1.5? Thanks in advance for any replies!

3 oz / 2.5gal is about the level i dry hop my IPAs. I dont concern myself with the volume loss but its never more than 1 beer or so. Hope it turns out

 

[thed163]

Dry hopped last night with a total of 2 oz. .5 citra .5 centennial .5 mosaic .5 cascade.
Fermentation has really slowed but is still bubbling ever so slightly. Plan to leave for 7 days, then bottle. We'll see how it comes out!
I put pellets straight in, plan to use a mesh bag over my siphon and go about it that way.

One thing I read said to keep everything cool, like 60 degrees, but if I want fermentation to finish up, I need to keep it higher.

Any thoughts on this? It's currently at 78 with the swamp cooler/aquarium heater.

 

[HB_in_Subic]

Dry hopped last night with a total of 2 oz. .5 citra .5 centennial .5 mosaic .5 cascade.
Fermentation has really slowed but is still bubbling ever so slightly. Plan to leave for 7 days, then bottle. We'll see how it comes out!
I put pellets straight in, plan to use a mesh bag over my siphon and go about it that way.

One thing I read said to keep everything cool, like 60 degrees, but if I want fermentation to finish up, I need to keep it higher.

Any thoughts on this? It's currently at 78 with the swamp cooler/aquarium heater.

Keep it above the minimum temperature range, I would keep it closer to the median temp +2F to ensure a final push on the fermenting.

 

[thed163]

Keep it above the minimum temperature range, I would keep it closer to the median temp +2F to ensure a final push on the fermenting.

70-95. median +2 = right around where I have it at like 78.

Appreciate that tip! it's been there throughout, but with ferms roaring, I figured at least 7 over whatever the temp of the water was.

 

[HB_in_Subic]

70-95. median +2 = right around where I have it at like 78.

Appreciate that tip! it's been there throughout, but with ferms roaring, I figured at least 7 over whatever the temp of the water was.

When it slows down, you can rouse the yeast further and get it up to the 75% of the temperature tolerance range. Remember, the yeast creates heat during the first phase (exothermic) when most off flavors and fusels are created. The latter stages (endothermic=no heat) do not create the fusels. The yeast does not generate heat during the end of the fermentation.

Bottom line: do not stress the yeast.

 

[slym2none]

Fermentation has really slowed but is still bubbling ever so slightly. Plan to leave for 7 days, then bottle. We'll see how it comes out!
I put pellets straight in, plan to use a mesh bag over my siphon and go about it that way.

Everything I have read says to wait until fermentation is complete before dry-hopping, otherwise some of your aroma & flavours get "scrubbed" by the CO² being formed. Then again, just because your airlock is bubbling, doesn't mean it is still fermenting... hmm.

I'mma shut up now and let you do your thing. I have no idea what I am talking about here...

 

[bruteforce]

Everything I have read says to wait until fermentation is complete before dry-hopping, otherwise some of your aroma & flavours get "scrubbed" by the CO² being formed. Then again, just because your airlock is bubbling, doesn't mean it is still fermenting... hmm.

I'mma shut up now and let you do your thing. I have no idea what I am talking about here...

I've noticed the same thing with my IPAs. I like to wait until FG is reached, then dry hop. I've dry hopped earlier and while I get good hop punch early one, about a month later it drops of faster if I dry hop earlier.

 

[SanPancho]

Bottom line: do not stress the yeast.

have to disagree here. for styles like saison, hefeweizen, etc, stressing the yeast can actually give you some great flavors.

esters and phenols are what define these styles IMO, and stressing yeast can boost them both.

i think its more appropriate to say "dont stress the yeast unless you're doing it on purpose"

definitely agree on rousing the yeast- i do it at the beginning of fermentation to help growth/aeration as well as at the end when im trying to get down to FG.

 

[thed163]

So, my I don't really know how low this can drop but it started at like 1.045 or so and down to 1.012 as of last week.
I read to dry hop either after fermentation or when it's really winding down with a couple points left to go.

During the early stages I was at 80° constant in the water, meaning higher, because I wanted to hit 90° for the 3724. Like it was said, it is known to produce great flavors and aromas.

Now I'm just going to aim to keep it just above minimum temp. It's been about 3.5 weeks in primary

...as always thanks everyone for the input/ having the open dialogue and taking time to respond. I can read all day but a conversation and answering specifics is much preferred. Thanks.

 

[zfcggh]

I used Belle Saison in a hoppy saison and the hops completely dominated the spicy phenols.

 

[thed163]

Dry hopping with pellets and using a muslin bag failed.. I mean it worked but not well. I must find easier ways. My dry hopping cherry has been popped.
Paint strainer I couldn't see being any better but then again what do I know

 

[m00ps]

ummm does anyone else find the exact copy/paste of those above posts combined with the low post count and similar random lettered, bottom-left of the keyboard, username unnerving?.....

 

[thed163]

are you a robot?

 

[m00ps]

OK so the first account has 3 posts within 1 minute of each one on 10/9 and thats it. Next account has 4 posts within 1 minute of each one on 10/14. Both join dates are Oct 2015. Also did the same copy/paste thing on another thread

Maybe its just some weird dude, but id like to keep the forums as spam bot free as possible....

 

[Roadie]

Dry hopping with pellets and using a muslin bag failed.. I mean it worked but not well. I must find easier ways. My dry hopping cherry has been popped.
Paint strainer I couldn't see being any better but then again what do I know

If you're doing just 1 dryhop just drop the pellets into the carboy. When you rack just don't remove the hop trub at the bottom.

 

[thed163]

If you're doing just 1 dryhop just drop the pellets into the carboy. When you rack just don't remove the hop trub at the bottom.

The hops clogged up the muslin bag i put around the siphon/racking cane... I wasn't clear, I did not put the hops into a bag, I put them straight into carboy... tried to let them settle out, but they still go sucked up.

If the hop trub clogged the bag, it prob would have clogged the siphon. Not sure why it didn't just sit on the bottom. I can't cold crash, not a big enough fridge.

m00ps, agreed on the spam bot/seems suspect.