IPA taste declining with age?

[DonnieZ]

I made what I thought to be a fantastic IPA back in September. The recipe was a PM Dogfish Head 90 minute clone, dry hopped with a couple of ounces of warrior, amarillo, and simcoe hops.

I kegged about 1.5 gallons of it into a recycled Coors Keg (Tapadraft) at bottling time in mid October, then primed the and bottle conditioned the rest.

The first gallon or so out of the keg were fantastic and this took a couple of weeks to get through. Lots of great fresh hop flavor. After a few weeks the fresh hop flavor diminished and I was left with a good beer, more hints of fruit coming through than I would have liked. Plenty of malty sweetness and sufficiently bitter, but the hop flavor had receeded.

The stuff from the bottle is drinkable, but it seems as it it ages it's got some kind of an off flavor. Bottles are sufficiently carbed, but as I hold the beer up to the light I see lots of very small dark things floating. I'm assuming this is pelletized hops. Will these eventually start to give the beer a bad flavor? What else could cause the flavor to go from awesome to just OK in this amount of time?

 

[StophJS]

Kind of funny this was a 90 minute clone. I just had this beer for the time last night and was wondering if it was old because it didn't seem very hoppy or very good. From what I've read, it sounds like aroma hops and definitely drop hops do decrease pretty rapidly actually. IPAs aren't really beers to age.

 

[Seven]

IPAs are best consumed fresh. Over time the hop flavors will diminish so get drinking!

 

[IffyG]

If I dry hop a beer, I try to consume it within 8 or 10 weeks of kegging. IMO, dry hopped beers are pretty much ready to go once they are carbonated and the hop flavor and aroma degrades in a hurry.

 

[dmckean44]

I like to consume them within 3 weeks personally. They change a lot after that.

 

[Gunrunner]

IPA beer is not for ageing. It will loose the hops over time. It will not turn into a bad beer just a beer with less hops flavor. Get to drinking and enjoy. As for the black stuff floating, it could be hops or sediment if you did not rack clean to your botteling bucket.

 

[Hex]

Normal. But having a good base beer prevents 'bad beer' results regardless of hops character. That is why I am trying to perfect ESB, at least when the hops flavor and aromas fade, the base beer will shine through...

 

[scottland]

Completely normal. IPAs go from awesome to eh in a matter of 6-8 weeks. If i'm buying a six pack of an IPA i always buy whichever is freshest. There are so many excellent IPAs for sale these days, I just check the bottled on dates and buy the freshest one.

 

[Yooper]

Yep, what they said. Unfortunately, that awesome hops flavor and aroma fades pretty quickly.

Even Pliny has something on the label that says it all: "Respect your elder. Keep Cold. Drink Fresh. Pliny the Elder is a historical figure, don’t make the beer inside this bottle one! Not a barley wine, do not age! Age your cheese, not your Pliny! Respect hops, consume fresh. If you must, sit on eggs, not on Pliny! Do not save for a rainy day! Pliny is for savoring, not for saving! Consume Pliny fresh or not at all! Does not improve with age! Hoppy beers are not meant to be aged! Keep away from heat!"

 

[DonnieZ]

Looks like I'm going to have to either drink more or make smaller batches.

Exactly what happens to the hop flavor and aroma? It's in a sealed container.

 

[Hex]

...with live yeast. That's my vote, enjoy your hops before the yeast do!

Also refrigerate the bottles immediately after they carbonate, get 'em cold, keep 'em cold.

 

[scottland]

Exactly what happens to the hop flavor and aroma? It's in a sealed container.

The biggest factor is those hop compounds oxidize very easily, stressing the 'very'. Keeping as much o2 away from your hoppy beers will extend their life. Beyond that, I couldn't tell you; you'd probably need a chemist's answer.

 

[AiredAle]

Ironically, IPA was developed in England as a beer to be aged, so the subdued hop flavors are what the original IPA examples exhibited. We Americans have taken the original style and changed it to a beer to be drunk with little aging, so they are bursting with aroma and hop character.

As far as what happens to the flavors, I can only guess that the hop oils react with other ingredients in the beer over time, and the reaction products don't have the aroma. The hop character flavors probably do the same. Some of the flavors may adsorb onto yeast and settle out as well, but I would guess that is a minor pathway if the beer has cleared before kegging/bottling. Mere speculation on my part, please feel free to correct me.

 

[tojo]

I have a half case of a Surly Furious clone that went the same way. I loved it when I first brewed it.....now, not so much! After several weeks of denial, I think I cried when I came to terms that this happened. I can't bring myself to drink it or dump it!! Maybe if I pinch my nose or rub some hop pellets on my upper lip?

 

[Ozzfest05]

It does happen, sometimes hops are masking off flavors so when the hoppy character dissapears well those flavor come to the front of the line .

You taste fruity flavors you said, fermentation temp might have gotten high now that some of the aroma and bitterness Settled your paying for it.

Solution: drink faster, check fermentation temps.

 

[sudsmcgee]

Hoppy beers = drink as fast as possible.

 

[IffyG]

I have a half case of a Surly Furious clone that went the same way. I loved it when I first brewed it.....now, not so much! After several weeks of denial, I think I cried when I came to terms that this happened. I can't bring myself to drink it or dump it!! Maybe if I pinch my nose or rub some hop pellets on my upper lip?

That's why I usually brew 2 or 3 gallons of highly hopped beer.

 

[ZamaMan]

Just throw some whole hop flowers in there. That's what i dobwhen I have to drink something thats lacking on hops.

 

[ZamaMan]

BByBy there I mean in your glass.

 

[DonnieZ]

Thanks for the advice. I bet threw form temps did climb a bit too high, as it fermented at 70 degrees ambient, so the form temp at the height of fermentation might have been 10 or so degrees above that.

I'be got a batch of an all Citra pale ale that I'm going to bottle this weekend. I tried to get the germ temps lower on this one, but the room I ferment in is suspect to temperature swings. Unfortunately the day of active fermentation it was unseasonably warm and this one probably climbed to 70 or so in the room as well. I need to move out of my condo!!!

I'll try and get through this one faster than the last batch. The DFH 90 clone was made with Wyeast1098, I'm hoping the 1028 London Ale I used on this batch produces a little less fruit.

 

[calpyro]

Looks like I'm going to have to either drink more or make smaller batches.

Exactly what happens to the hop flavor and aroma? It's in a sealed container.

I have struggled with essentially the same problem and I have come with a fix.

My problem has been the oxidation of my IPA's due to dry hopping.
My fix was to "cask condition" my beer when I dry hop. Simply, I just add priming sugar to the keg when I dry hop. When the dry-hop is finished, I transfer to a brite tank (keg)

My working premise is that the renewed yeast activity after adding the priming sugar, will metabolize any oxygen introduced into the beer and make the beer more stable, for longer storage and thus keep the beer fresher.

So far, my beer have stayed fresh, about three-times longer than they used to.
Hope it helps.

 

[Hex]

Wow, that is good advice! You could even dry hop in a secondary carboy while adding some boiled sugar solution. I'll bet you would get similar results even off the yeast cake...

 

[calpyro]

Wow, that is good advice! You could even dry hop in a secondary carboy while adding some boiled sugar solution. I'll bet you would get similar results even off the yeast cake...

I agree.
One advantage of using a keg as your dry-hop/cask conditioning is that any C02 produced in the keg will be contained and any hop aroma will too.
In a carboy, some (not all) hop aroma will be lost through the airlock.

Either way, the oxygen will be metabolized and the potential of oxidation will be reduced.

 

[squirrelly]

While hop bitterness does fade with age, other complex flavors start coming through and become quite interesting after a year or two. A barley wine is a classic example of this. While when fresh the barley wine is pine tree, cut grass like when it's cellared it really begins to shine. That cut grass aroma/taste becomes nonexistent and a malty, nutty, carmel flavor really develops.

My double IPA goes through 3 dry hop additions and 4-6 hop additions in the kettle. It is normally cellared for 24 months before its consumed.

The thing that concerns me is you stated you are experiencing "off flavors." what are these off flavors? Maybe it's an infection you picked up and became detectable once the abrasiveness of the hops faded to the background, or it might be a problem that occurred during fermentation like diacytal or DMS.

 

[sudsmcgee]

While hop bitterness does fade with age, other complex flavors start coming through and become quite interesting after a year or two. A barley wine is a classic example of this. While when fresh the barley wine is pine tree, cut grass like when it's cellared it really begins to shine. That cut grass aroma/taste becomes nonexistent and a malty, nutty, carmel flavor really develops.

My double IPA goes through 3 dry hop additions and 4-6 hop additions in the kettle. It is normally cellared for 24 months before its consumed.

The thing that concerns me is you stated you are experiencing "off flavors." what are these off flavors? Maybe it's an infection you picked up and became detectable once the abrasiveness of the hops faded to the background, or it might be a problem that occurred during fermentation like diacytal or DMS.

To each their own, but IPA's are supposed to be consumed fresh as fresh can be.