Ipa recipe help

[Jag75]

Looking for advice on this IPA recipe . I'm trying to do a clone of Luponic Distortion #11
This is a 5 gallon batch . Using my tap water and diluted with RO water

Profile
Calcium 114
Sodium 40
Sulfate 237
Chloride 50
Ph 5.28

11# 2 row
2 # Munich
12.oz crystal 75

Mash 60 min @ 150
Mash out 10 min 170
Boil 90 min

.75 oz Denali 60 min - 31.6 ibu
.25 oz Warrior 30 min - 8.6 ibu
.50 oz Citra 15 min - 8.4 ibu
.25 Enigma 15 min - 5.2 ibu
.50 Azacca 5 min - 4.2 ibu
1oz Lemon Drop - 3.9 ibu
Total IBU = 61.9

Dry hop for 5 days
1 oz Citra
1 oz Azacca
1 oz Lemon drop
1 oz Denali

 

[WBB]

I’d love to help you, but are you going to change something because someone you don’t know on the inter webs told you to?

I say it looks good, brew it and see what happens. Do a blind taste test with someone who is not a beer geek and see what they say.

So my advice? Looks good. Brew it and let us know how it tastes.

 

[IslandLizard]

I've had a Luponic Distortion once a couple years ago, and was pleasantly surprised about the flavor and aroma aspects.
Haven't seen or had one since. The growler I brought kicked, but I don't think many at that party (all homebrew club members) were very impressed. Then again, there was a ton of other good beer, mostly big Belgians, but no other IPA, so that may have played a role.

Where did you get this? Why the Denali as 60' bittering hop? What is Enigma contributing with only 1/4 oz at 15'?

I'd bitter with Warrior to get 70-80% of the bittering and push all other flavor hops toward the end and whirlpool. But that's my take. Dry hop looks appropriate.

Dry hop in (primary) fermenter?
Are you kegging this?

 

[Jag75]

They change their hop additions all the time . They started on Luponic #1 and now they're on #11. They use 6 hops from 3 continents. Pacific Northwest, Australia and Germany. Google it and they give a little info but not a whole lot. Yes dry hop in primary fermenter and I'm kegging . I'm still looking at the hops and possibly could alter . I'm just trying to get as close as I can to their IPA that they give little to no info on. Some of the hops I will whirlpool

 

[IslandLizard]

They change their hop additions all the time . They started on Luponic #1 and now they're on #11. They use 6 hops from 3 continents. Pacific Northwest, Australia and Germany. Google it and they give a little info but not a whole lot. Yes dry hop in primary fermenter and I'm kegging . I'm still looking at the hops and possibly could alter . I'm just trying to get as close as I can to their IPA that they give little to no info on. Some of the hops I will whirlpool

Yeah, I know it's an ever changing series, didn't know about the 3 continents, like a play on Tektonic Distortion?
The one I had was a #6, perhaps.

I read somewhere that Denali is a souped up Nugget derivative, and to be careful with it. I've never brewed with it, so I don't know what it gives.

I've seen Denali used in many NEIPA recipes from late addition to dry hop, never as the main bittering hop, hence my remark before to move it up. From what I read Denali seems to have a candied citrus-like flavor. Using it at 60' per that recipe it will kill most of its flavor, so whatever left is a mere ghost.

I'm just trying to get as close as I can to their IPA that they give little to no info on.

You're saying there's not much known about these L-D recipes. Who came up with this recipe?

 

[Jag75]

I thought about switching the Denali and warrior. Denali has a pineapple character . Not sure who the master brewer is at Firestone Walker. It just says that the Pacific Northwest hop is the lead hop

 

[Jag75]

I found out a little more about the beer . Theirs is @59IBU. Mine was @ 62 . Not a bad guess . I'm liking my hop choices on the most part but I will be adjusting here and there . I underestimated how fun this would be .

 

[IslandLizard]

I found out a little more about the beer . Theirs is @59IBU. Mine was @ 62 . Not a bad guess . I'm liking my hop choices on the most part but I will be adjusting here and there . I underestimated how fun this would be .

IBUs tend to be an estimate, especially in homebrew. But commercial breweries do get their IBUs tested at times.

Have you considered splitting the batch in 2 or 3, using the same hops but different hopping schemes in each?
For that you mash the whole recipe. Then either boil the whole amount with the same bittering hops, but drain off 1/2 or 2/3 and finish the leftover fraction with one hop schedule. Put in fermenter. Then repeat for the other fractions.
Or split before the boil to change up the bittering schedule as well.

 

[Jag75]

I think splitting the boil and changing up the bittering is the best way to do that. I wonder if that would change my boil off rate if I pumped from my Gf to a couple pots . But honestly I have 1 fermenter that has the capability to dry hop well . I guess I could dry hop in a carboy but I like to use bags with dry hopping. This is probably a brew that I will do back to back to adjust certain things .

 

[IslandLizard]

I think splitting the boil and changing up the bittering is the best way to do that. I wonder if that would change my boil off rate if I pumped from my Gf to a couple pots . But honestly I have 1 fermenter that has the capability to dry hop well . I guess I could dry hop in a carboy but I like to use bags with dry hopping. This is probably a brew that I will do back to back to adjust certain things .

Apart from laying down a bittering base of say 20-40 IBU with a neutral bittering hop (Magnum is excellent, Warrior being a bit more herbal is next), if you rely on significant bittering from late additions and whirlpool hops, I'd split after a 30-40' boil to save time and effort.

Your boil off rate is essentially the same whether you boil 1 gallon or 6 in the same kettle. Actually at lower boil volumes the boil off rate may go up, as the wort may boil more vigorously. So yeah, you need to count/estimate for that.

You can always top up as you go with (dechlorinated) water or 2nd or 3rd runnings. You may want to keep those extra runnings hot (near boiling) on a separate (spare) burner, so you don't lose the boil when topping up, which would only be a minor issue IMO.

 

[IslandLizard]

Most breweries use a separate whirlpool tank after the boil kettle, from which boiling wort is pumped into.

It's specially designed to separate trub from the wort, after the boil, so clearer wort goes into the fermenters. It takes some time for that to happen 10-40' depending on the system and size. That while the temp drops gradually. During that time, any hops, especially late and flameout hops, are still in the hot wort extracting flavors and aromas.

During said whirlpool Alpha Acids are still being isomerized as well (creating bittering compounds), which continues all the way down to around 150F. Many breweries have been adding hops to the whirlpool as it's ongoing to get more and better hop extraction and some bittering at lower temps although it's never seen a boil. This goes on until the whirlpooling wort goes through the chillers.

In short, transferring, whirlpooling, and chilling, whether it's 10 or 200 barrels of wort takes time during which hops are still extracting, isomerizing, etc. Keep that in mind.

Many of those processes and techniques haven't been carried forward into homebrew recipes, until fairly recently. So if you want to get closer to true clones, think about their processes, and perhaps try to mimic some of the essential ones.

Most homebrewers have been intentionally using similar techniques for only the past 5-7 years, maybe. Especially with the rise of the IPA/NEIPA rage. But I'm sure almost everyone of us has been whirlpooling (or doing hopstands) long, long before that, as chilling is not instantaneous.

 

[couchsending]

You can find a lot of info about how they brew FW beers online. It’s a similar process for most of their hoppy beers. I would guess LD is not that different.

Their yeast is similar to 1968 I believe, I’d recommend that yeast. In order to get it to dry out you’ll need to either step mash it or do a long low mash. They often do 145/154/168.

Almost any recent recipe I’ve seen from their head brewer has a 60 minute charge (just use magnum) for IBUs then a charge at either 20 or 10 then the rest in the Whirlpool.

Their hoppy recipes usually consist of 2row, touch of Munich, touch of light crystal.

They dry hop most beers twice. One at the very very very tail end of fermentation and since their yeast flocs so hard another a few days later after pulling yeast. Always at high temps though cause the yeast is very prone to diacetyl issues.

Pitch at 64, ferment at 66, bump to 68 then to 70 after fermentation.

 

[Jag75]

It's crazy how much they change the distortion. The grain bill is the same for each one , only the hops change . I'll look at their website and see. I live 1.5 hrs away from where they're located and have done a tour . Maybe it's time for another tour .

 

[couchsending]

Based on the description of the 001 there’s wheat in the recipe. It seems to light in color for C75.

 

[Jag75]

Thanks for posting on this thread guys I appreciate it . The reason I started this thread was to look at different ideas and to catch something that I inputed wrong like the crystal should be 40 not 75 . So my hop sch will be
.75 oz Magnum @60 min
.75 oz Denali @10
Whirlpool with
Citra 1oz
Enigma 1oz
Azacca 1oz
Lemon Drop 1oz

Dry hop with the same as WP.

I will do a step mash as well.

@IslandLizard and @couchsending thank you for taking the time to search that particular beer and post your thoughts.

 

[IslandLizard]

YVW, I want to try this recipe myself.

I will do a step mash as well.

Is step mashing easy to do on your system?
After your initial mash for 15-20' at 145F you could do an infusion to get to 149F, instead of using direct heat.

If you batch sparge, a mashout is really not needed. Since we want highly fermentable wort, a mashout is not needed at all. You can let it mash for 2-3 hours at 148F if you want, it's beta-amylase's territory here. Especially with WY1968, which is a medium attenuator, it can't ferment maltotriose, which is formed and retained at higher mash temps.

 

[Jag75]

Yes I do step mashes easy. I use a Grainfather so I just input the info and it runs . When I sparge I just take the premeasured water and slowly pour once I lift my grain basket.

 

[IslandLizard]

Are you doing a mashout on your Grainfather with the grain basket in place? Or just lift the basket and start heating toward a boil? Then as it heats up you pour water over the grain in the basket to 'sparge?'

I don't think there is any advantage to doing the former, since your not (fly) sparging for an hour.

 

[Jag75]

I have my sparge water in a pot on my stove. I lift the basket up and as its draining the temp is ramped up to a boil . I pour the sparge water slowly with a small pot . Takes a little bit of time but not an hour .

 

[IslandLizard]

I have my sparge water in a pot on my stove. I lift the basket up and as its draining the temp is ramped up to a boil . I pour the sparge water slowly with a small pot . Takes a little bit of time but not an hour .

That works fine!
As soon as you start heating the wort after lifting the basket you're technically mashing it out. The relatively small amount of wort trapped in the grain will continue to convert, although after an hour mash there may not be much change anyway.

Most commercial breweries only mash for around 30 minutes. But they do use constant agitation, which helps a lot toward fast and thorough conversion. Then sparge while the wort is being heated to a boil.

 

[Jag75]

Fixing to brew this on sat . I'm making some last minute alterations. I'm coming up at 9.3 srm. I'm trying to get this down to about 5 srm. How could I drop the srm more ? Maybe go with a lighter crystal instead ?

I'm getting 80 from 2 row
14.5 from Munich
5.5 from crystal 40

 

[couchsending]

2% c40

Ideally British crystal if you have it

 

[Jag75]

2% c40

Ideally British crystal if you have it

That stuff has the same (L) color . I cut the crystal in half and added 2 row but it barely went down.

 

[couchsending]

I was just saying the British crystal is better than your typical US crystal.

Cut the Munich a bit. I’ve never used Munich in an IPA personally.

If you’re just trying to get a certain SRM I always suggest using a percentage of darker malt. It has the benefit of driving pH down and you don’t need to add much. Too much crystal malt can do some weird stuff to hoppy beer when they start to oxidize. I believe it can also speed up the oxidative process.

Most suggestions I see from great brewers is no more than 2% crystal in heavily hopped beers.

 

[Jag75]

Thanks @couchsending

 

[Jag75]

@couchsending

I've got a total of 13.75 #

I'm going with Carmel 15 . The guys at the LHBS said it's great. I think it may be British crystal.

2% of 13.75 = .275. if that's right that's just a shade over .25 # of crystal. Will 1/4 # do anything in a beer with a grain bill of over 13#'s?

 

[couchsending]

At that low of a lovibond you can use a bit more. It’s just when you start to get into the 40 and higher crystal that you generally don’t want too much of it for oxidative reasons. I generally don’t go with more than 4% at that level. Carahell from Weyermann or Caramalt from Crisp are your best bets for that type of crystal malt IMHO.

If I want to adjust color I’ll use very small percentages of Caraaroma. Like 1% of less.

 

[Jag75]

Thanks man. I went with a half pound of the Carmel. Came out to 3% of grain bill. I appreciate the info .

 

[IslandLizard]

The day I can taste color will be when I make adjustments for them...

 

[Jag75]

The day I can taste color will be when I make adjustments for them...

Tasting color ? You talking sweetness of different color grain?