IPA help - is it the water?

[Scraggybeard]

I have brewed a few IPA batches and they all seem to have a bitter finish to them, not hoppy bitter, but bitter. I've tried to do some troubleshooting (adding campden to help with any chlorine, decreasing bittering additions and adding more hops later [post-10mins]) but haven't seemed to have any luck. My most recent batch was one using Falconer's flight, Mosaic, and Equinox hops and I was hoping for a citrusy fruity IPA. I get a hint of the citrus but it is over-powered by the bitter flavor.
I've read about the possibility of high pH and bitterness resulting from that so my next plan was to use filtered water from a grocery store (I've been using tap water, water report says pH is 7.3) to see if that takes the bitterness away. Am I on the right track? The other complaint I have about my IPAs is that they seem to have the dull and bitter rather than a bright and "juicy" IPA flavor that a lot of the commercial ones do. Would that be related to a water issue? For what it's worth, darker beer styles seem to come out fine and I did a white IPA that didn't seem to have the excessive bitter flavor, but still didn't have that "pop" of hop flavor I'm looking for. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[ejf063]

I have brewed a few IPA batches and they all seem to have a bitter finish to them, not hoppy bitter, but bitter. I've tried to do some troubleshooting (adding campden to help with any chlorine, decreasing bittering additions and adding more hops later [post-10mins]) but haven't seemed to have any luck. My most recent batch was one using Falconer's flight, Mosaic, and Equinox hops and I was hoping for a citrusy fruity IPA. I get a hint of the citrus but it is over-powered by the bitter flavor.
I've read about the possibility of high pH and bitterness resulting from that so my next plan was to use filtered water from a grocery store (I've been using tap water, water report says pH is 7.3) to see if that takes the bitterness away. Am I on the right track? The other complaint I have about my IPAs is that they seem to have the dull and bitter rather than a bright and "juicy" IPA flavor that a lot of the commercial ones do. Would that be related to a water issue? For what it's worth, darker beer styles seem to come out fine and I did a white IPA that didn't seem to have the excessive bitter flavor, but still didn't have that "pop" of hop flavor I'm looking for. Thanks in advance for any help.

No doubt its the water. I have had the same problem before I started brewing with 100% distilled water. There is a lot of information on this site about using distilled and building your water. A real easy rule of thumb for beginning would be just adding a half tsp of gypsum and a half tsp of calcium chloride to every 5 gal of water used. The salts would go right in the mash tun. So on a five gallon batch, where you are hoping to get 7 gallons in the boil, this would be perfect.
There is software like Bru' N Water that helps one build water. If it seems complicated and you want to have a quick fix to this issue, you can start simple and do as I mentioned above.
Also, with these two minerals, the gypsum improves the hop bitterness while the calcium chloride helps malt flavor. with that in mind, it is okay with a five gallon batch to add more than just a half of a teaspoon each. there is plenty here on the calcium chloride to sulfate ratio. A rule of thumb is to have about 2:1 or even 3:1 ratio of sulfate to calcium chloride in an ipa.
I love big hoppy ipas. my last two batches I went heavy on the calcium chloride where my ppm was twice that of the sulfate. so I took the reverse method. I still get bitterness, indeed. Like you, I was trying to get away from that.... offensive(?) bitterness. It all depends on what you are looking for and what you like. So for me, I did a lot of research on water and started building up from there.
When you brew a darker beer and the bitterness isn't an issue, you are on the right track when guessing that your pH is off.
Oh, and for the hops, I have started brewing with a single bittering charge. Depending on my brew, I will either do a FWH charge, a full 60 min boil addition charge, or a "hop burst" where my only bitterness charge comes in at 20 mins left in the boil. All of my flavor and aroma hops come in after I turn off the flame. My ipa's have hit a new level going this route. I also increased my dry hop to about 1 ounce per gallon. Aroma=flavor perception....


Brew on

 

[Natdavis777]

Sounds like it may be an elevated bicarbonate issue. Id recommend trying the same brew with some distilled/RO water and utilize the Water Primer in the Chemistry sub-forum. This should help with your pale beers.

If dark beers are coming out fine, you can keep using your tap water.

 

[rhys333]

Water almost for sure, as the others say. Definately read the water primer, and verse yourself with the brewing software, either Bru'n or EZ Water. Also, if you haven't already, build/buy an immersion wort chiller. Chilling quickly 'sets' your hops where you want them and prevents excessive bittering. Also, if you've been using the same syphon tubing since day one, change it. Nasties can build up on the inside leading to infection and possible off flavors. From your description its 99.9% water related, but it doesn't hurt to tackle other (possible) contributing factors too.

 

[daksin]

Let's see a recipe- I have judged a few homebrew competitions and am convinced that more than a few homebrewers neglect to take boil time into account or don't realize its effect on the hop character of a beer.

 

[ChucknBeer]

My water is VERY hard, but the main issue I saw in the analysis I requested was the magnesium... too high and it adds to the bitternes... I have like 70ppm... way too much and you can feel it, specially in IPAs and Ales.

My advice would be to go 50/50 with tap water - distilled water and see if there is any change.

 

[ajdelange]

It could be the water or it could be the choice of hop cultivar, hop charge schedule and/or mash program. Sweetness offsets the perception of bitterness and chloride influences the perception of sweetness. At the same time sulfate tends to render perceived bitterness harsh. High mash pH tends to dull malt flavors. Controlling mash pH (which means neutralizing or eliminating water alkalinity) and the levels of sulfate and chloride (don't get taken in by the 'ratio' nonsense) is about all you can do to the water. Proper mash pH is a sine qua non for good beer but the effects of water chemistry are, otherwise, minor. Use a low alpha hop. The varieties with lots of punch tend to deliver coarse bitterness. Hold till late in the boil and maintain a low kettle pH so that essential oils are retained and there is less isomerization of the bittering principles. Mash at higher conversion temperature to keep sweet dextrines in the wort. Use a less attenuating yeast strain. These are all non water related suggestions which may or may not work. Experiment but do have a water analysis done and hope yours isn't like ChucknBeer's.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I would guess that your not tasting the effects of over sparging your grains and introducing tannins into your wort, right? Over sparging will result in a beer that is astringent, it leaves your mouth dry, bitter and puckering.

 

[ejf063]

Sounds like it may be an elevated bicarbonate issue.

I guess I didn’t realize high biocarbonates end up in bitterness…. I would like to learn more about that. Can you site your source? What is the biocarbonate number one should stay under in order to avoid over bitterness? I just did an APA with a biocarbonate of 109 and total hardness was 294. The water was built up from DI, and hopped with one ounce of warrior at FWH for a 5 gallon batch. It’s not astringent or harsh, but there is some (excess?) bitterness there. Don’t want to hijack the thread, but I am seeking clarity on this. Thanks!

 

[m00ps]

My early IPAs were mostly dull and muddled in hop character. Ive been pretty hung up on making juicy, salivating IPAs with a buttload of hop character but no lingering bitterness and heres what Ive found

Do like 95% late hop additions and do not skimp on the hops. My last 5 or 6 have had more than 1lb per 5gal with 1oz at 60min, 1oz 10-15min, and the rest at flameout or dry hops

hopstand/whirlpool is an absolute must. I like to add the majority of my hops here. 4oz or more at flameout and another addition after the hopstand has been going for 30min. I do 60min hopstands usually before chilling

if you can, add 1-2oz of hops in the keg. it helps immensely with the nose of the beer fresh out the tap. You dont need to worry about grassy off flavors from leaving it in the keg

try 20-30% wheat in your IPAs. This really pulls out the juicyness of fruity hops. Sometime soon I want to try a 50/50 2row/wheat IPA and see how far itll take me

I also add 1-2tsp of gypsum to help with the hop character. Though I should note that I dont get any farther than that into water analyzation

these little tweaks have enabled me to make what I would refer to as hop flavored gatorade. Its so drinkable it seems to walk the line between beer and like vitamin water

 

[daksin]

I would still like to see the recipe before deciding that water (or anything else) is OP's problem.