IPA burnout

[NoIguanaForZ]

Calling IPA's "trendy" or a "fad" is ridiculous. I also think it's ridiculous to imply that many of the people drinking them are hipsters or doing it to be cool. Why would that even be a thing? Did I miss the Matthew McConaughey IPA commercial?

Three words: "Ick Measuring Contest."

People drink IPA's because they're delicious and hops are awesome! If you disagree, there's a great thread floating around on here about True Beer (TM) that you might be interested in.

Must be hard to brew over there, since by this logic the only possible states for your beer are either frozen solid or boiling.

 

[patto1ro]

Ron Pattinson has dug up plenty of IPA recipes over the years, both on his blog and if you poke around Google Books - it's always courteous to buy a book if you're using the recipe though.

Although the weight of hops seems large, you have to remember that this would have been before the days of cold chains and protective atmospheres/mylar vacuum packs, so you have to wonder a bit as to what state the hops were in. In air at room temperature, the half life of alpha acids in hops can be less than six months.

Also you have to consider what varieties were being used - for instance Tolhurst was widespread in Mid Kent between the wars, and I've seen that analysed at just 2.2% alpha, it was definitely the "cheap and cheerful" hop with great yields of not so good hops (as well as a notoriously poor keeper). One would hope that as premium beers IPAs would get the premium hops like EKG, but when have big brewers ever taken the more expensive option....?

In terms of commercial beers - all the "original" ones have suffered through the 20th century and are now a pale shadow of what they were, your best bet are the breweries that make heritage recipes, such as the guys at the Burton museum and Beer Nouveau (who even made the infamous cock ale for IndyMan this year).

Hops weren't stored at room temperature. Ones that weren't going to be used immediately were kept in a cold store.

Expensive beers like IPA usually contained the best quality hops, EKG or Farnham. And they were usually from the most recent season. Cheaper beers might well contain hops that were two or three years old.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I think I figured out what I do not like about British ales in general, at least about the ones I had here in the South of UK.

They are all painfully sweet to my German Pilsener influenced taste and I think I really really do not like the crystal malt character that they all show so highly accentuated.

A while back I was talking to a, shall we say "less sophisticated", beer drinker, who was raving about this beer he'd just come across called... Hobgoblin. I nodded politely but I realised that I probably hadn't had Hobgoblin since before the Marston takeover. The two are not unrelated, but also Hobgoblin is just something that you don't see in the pubs I go to.

Anyway, I was at a party where I spied a bottle of Hobgoblin so I thought I'd try it rather than some of the stuff I usually drink. Boy did I regret it - soooo sweet, ridiculously sweet. I can't remember when I last tipped a beer that wasn't off, but I couldn't finish it. So yep, if that's the kind of thing that's been shaping your ideas on British bitters, then I'm not surprised that you think they're all cloyingly sweet - I guess the Thames Valley is the heartland of that style of thing, but even Speckled Hen isn't that sweet. And yes, they're not all like that across Britain.

 

[Miraculix]

A while back I was talking to a, shall we say "less sophisticated", beer drinker, who was raving about this beer he'd just come across called... Hobgoblin. I nodded politely but I realised that I probably hadn't had Hobgoblin since before the Marston takeover. The two are not unrelated, but also Hobgoblin is just something that you don't see in the pubs I go to.

Anyway, I was at a party where I spied a bottle of Hobgoblin so I thought I'd try it rather than some of the stuff I usually drink. Boy did I regret it - soooo sweet, ridiculously sweet. I can't remember when I last tipped a beer that wasn't off, but I couldn't finish it. So yep, if that's the kind of thing that's been shaping your ideas on British bitters, then I'm not surprised that you think they're all cloyingly sweet - I guess the Thames Valley is the heartland of that style of thing, but even Speckled Hen isn't that sweet. And yes, they're not all like that across Britain.

At least there is now some room for hope

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Hi Ron. Glad you replied, as hop storage is something that noone seems to talk about even though it's as important as beer recipes when it comes to working out how old beers would have actually tasted.

Hops weren't stored at room temperature. Ones that weren't going to be used immediately were kept in a cold store.

Expensive beers like IPA usually contained the best quality hops, EKG or Farnham. And they were usually from the most recent season. Cheaper beers might well contain hops that were two or three years old.

I'm interested in the timings of this, because things like ammonia refrigeration didn't come in until the 1880s which is obviously late for IPAs. I've not heard of anyone using ice houses for hops, but maybe they did?

Looking at the climate data, these days you have around 2 months after harvest where just putting hops in a barn in Faversham would leave them at 10-15C, then they wouldn't get above 10C until March. Mebbe knock off 1-2C for climate change but I guess it's not much of a problem until after Easter. Is there any evidence of deliberately brewing IPAs in autumn/winter to capture hops in the best state?

I can't help feeling that there's evidence of this being a factor in the way that Britain has some of the best-storing traditional hops, it feels like a result of concerted selection. Certainly storage stability was a factor in Tolhurst losing out. I'm not sure how sophisticated brewers were about hop varieties - I get the impression that geographical descriptions like "Mid-Kent" persisted until at least the wilt crisis of the mid-20th century, and "Mid-Kent" can cover a multitude of sins (such as Tolhurst). Even now you still see people using "Styrian Goldings" as a generic term for Slovenian hops covering not just Savinjski but derivatives like Celeia etc.

 

[shoreman]

Ron Pattinson has dug up plenty of IPA recipes over the years, both on his blog and if you poke around Google Books - it's always courteous to buy a book if you're using the recipe though.

Although the weight of hops seems large, you have to remember that this would have been before the days of cold chains and protective atmospheres/mylar vacuum packs, so you have to wonder a bit as to what state the hops were in. In air at room temperature, the half life of alpha acids in hops can be less than six months.

Also you have to consider what varieties were being used - for instance Tolhurst was widespread in Mid Kent between the wars, and I've seen that analysed at just 2.2% alpha, it was definitely the "cheap and cheerful" hop with great yields of not so good hops (as well as a notoriously poor keeper). One would hope that as premium beers IPAs would get the premium hops like EKG, but when have big brewers ever taken the more expensive option....?

In terms of commercial beers - all the "original" ones have suffered through the 20th century and are now a pale shadow of what they were, your best bet are the breweries that make heritage recipes, such as the guys at the Burton museum and Beer Nouveau (who even made the infamous cock ale for IndyMan this year).

Great info thanks for posting. I also have this book - http://www.durdenparkbeer.org.uk/publications.htm

Which has a couple old pale & IPAs in it if I remember.

I'd like to brew a couple of Ron Pattinson's recipes but I find it hard to get the proper ingredients locally and what's the point if you are subbing in something to take its place - awesome blog though.

 

[MaryB]

I had a Summit Brewing Saga IPA not to long ago... all I could taste for 2 hours was bitterness from hops... Some rate it good, personally? Blech!

 

[patto1ro]

Hi Ron. Glad you replied, as hop storage is something that noone seems to talk about even though it's as important as beer recipes when it comes to working out how old beers would have actually tasted.



I'm interested in the timings of this, because things like ammonia refrigeration didn't come in until the 1880s which is obviously late for IPAs. I've not heard of anyone using ice houses for hops, but maybe they did?

Looking at the climate data, these days you have around 2 months after harvest where just putting hops in a barn in Faversham would leave them at 10-15C, then they wouldn't get above 10C until March. Mebbe knock off 1-2C for climate change but I guess it's not much of a problem until after Easter. Is there any evidence of deliberately brewing IPAs in autumn/winter to capture hops in the best state?

I can't help feeling that there's evidence of this being a factor in the way that Britain has some of the best-storing traditional hops, it feels like a result of concerted selection. Certainly storage stability was a factor in Tolhurst losing out. I'm not sure how sophisticated brewers were about hop varieties - I get the impression that geographical descriptions like "Mid-Kent" persisted until at least the wilt crisis of the mid-20th century, and "Mid-Kent" can cover a multitude of sins (such as Tolhurst). Even now you still see people using "Styrian Goldings" as a generic term for Slovenian hops covering not just Savinjski but derivatives like Celeia etc.

Artificial refrigeration arrived around 1870. But even without it a cellar will keep pretty cool. They're from the 1920's or 1930's.

There's very little loss of alpha acid in the first 12 months:

storage period alpha resin
6.28
5 months 6.22
9 months 5.72
14 months 5.84
19 months 5.15

(The hops were Fuggles.)

I have numbers for how hops deteriorate in cold store or a warehouse.
The hops sold today as EKG aren't necessarily Goldings. Several varities of white bine as sold as EKG.

October was the month for brewing Stock Pale Ales. On Victorian pricee lists it quite often mentions that the Pale Ales were brewed in October.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I don't have enough experience drinking IPAs to have burned out on them. Most of them I didn't like at first taste, but I've grown steadily more tolerant of them the more I drink my own homebrew. I really do like Bell's Two Hearted. Like a lot.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I don't have enough experience drinking IPAs to have burned out on them. Most of them I didn't like at first taste, but I've grown steadily more tolerant of them the more I drink my own homebrew. I really do like Bell's Two Hearted. Like a lot.

Pretty sure theres a two hearted clone in recipe section. Its made with all centennial hops I believe

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I recently drank some seasonal Great Lakes Brewing 'Ohio City Oatmeal Stout', and it's excellence made me all the more convinced that IPA does not even rate by comparison.

 

[day_trippr]

"I liked a stout so all IPAs blow chunks! Film at eleven!"

This thread just got too crazy to follow

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

"I liked a stout so all IPAs blow chunks! Film at eleven!"

This thread just got too crazy to follow

It merely reflects one single example of my personal opinion (conclusion) that the balanced intermingling of malts (and occasionally un-malted grains and adjuncts) in conjunction with noble type hops which are in balance is overall far more agreeable to my palate than any beer which emphasizes a balance disrupting overload of grapefruit predominated hops.

 

[applescrap]

"i liked a stout so all ipas blow chunks! Film at eleven!"

this thread just got too crazy to follow

+1

 

[plazola86]

There's no IPA burnout. You guys never liked IPA's to begin with!

 

[Devin]

It merely reflects one single example of my personal opinion (conclusion) that the balanced intermingling of malts (and occasionally un-malted grains and adjuncts) in conjunction with noble type hops which are in balance is overall far more agreeable to my palate than any beer which emphasizes a balance disrupting overload of grapefruit predominated hops.

IMO, Stouts are generally not "balanced". They are malt-heavy.
"Balance" in beer, like many other things, is a subjective thing that varies from person to person.

 

[bleme]

"I liked a stout so all IPAs blow chunks! Film at eleven!"

This thread just got too crazy to follow

I served a mango cider at a brewfest this year and one of the ladies tells me "Why would anyone drink beer when they could drink this?". I know she meant it as a compliment, but it was hard not to laugh.

I know people who don't like anything sweet and a few that act like they are dying from a faint trace of capsaicin, whereas I seem to be drawn to all intensities equally. It boggles the mind that there is such huge variances in the same gene pool.

 

[TimmyWit]

It boggles the mind that there is such huge variances in the same gene pool.

It's simple - those of us who can appreciate a good IPA are clearly a few steps higher on the evolutionary ladder than the Neanderthals who don't like them.

 

[Devin]

I know people who don't like anything sweet and a few that act like they are dying from a faint trace of capsaicin, whereas I seem to be drawn to all intensities equally. It boggles the mind that there is such huge variances in the same gene pool.

It is strange, but I think that this would be an incredibly boring place if we all liked the same stuff. What would we have to argue about then?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

There's no IPA burnout. You guys never liked IPA's to begin with!

Thanks for letting us know what we like

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

This thread just got too crazy to follow

Bye

 

[plazola86]

I have to ask OP how old are you and whats your favorite style of beer? Serious question don't mean any harm, just curious.

 

[frozengator]

There's no IPA burnout. You guys never liked IPA's to begin with!

Yep

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I have to ask OP how old are you and whats your favorite style of beer? Serious question don't mean any harm, just curious.

48
I grew up long before craft beer existed when everyone drank BMC and Heineken was considered premium. I still like my BL's and have no shame about it. I got into craft beers with Sierra Nevada and got the itch. I've been drinking mostly IPA's and different lagers since then and that was a long long time ago and loved every bit of it for years without burning out on anything

So to answer your queston:
Bud light
Stella
Lots of other lagers
Reds..(Smithwicks)
Ipa's
Octoberfest beers
And hate any beer that taste like coffee

Hope that qualifies me as someone whose been around the beer block and knows when he's hit the wall on a beer style....and if it doesn't the thread was about myself getting IPA burnout and I'd like to think I'm in control of my own tastebuds

 

[plazola86]

48
I grew up long before craft beer existed when everyone drank BMC and Heineken was considered premium. I still like my BL's and have no shame about it. I got into craft beers with Sierra Nevada and got the itch. I've been drinking mostly IPA's and different lagers since then and that was a long long time ago and loved every bit of it for years without burning out.

So to answer your queston:
Bud light
Stella
Lots of other lagers
Reds..(Smithwicks)
Ipa's
And hate any beer that taste like coffee

Hope that qualifies me as someone whose been around the beer block and knows when he's hit the wall on a beer style....and if it doesn't the thread was about myself getting IPA burnout and I'd like to think I'm in control of my own tastebuds

You're more than qualified! Like I said no pun or negativity in my question, just curious. You were drinking IPA's before i even knew i liked beer, I could see why the burn out would come. Especially when IPAs exploded and every brewery was playing into the IBU war. I only have a couple years in the craft beer scene, right in the middle of the whole IBU war. I'm glad I'm in it now though to see the start of the whole N.E style IPA (Im a fan as well) and how that just blew up overnight is crazy.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I'm a retiree, and I was drinking beer for a good number of years before the Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. existed (and got the craze going big time). The first craft beer (if you can properly call it that) which I took a huge liking to was Fuller's ESB. It's still a favorite of mine.

 

[schematix]

I got hooked on SNPA when i was ~19 y/o (circa 2001) living in southern california. The costco by me sold cases for $20. I think a 36 pack of keystone light went for about $15 at the same time.

I didn't even know what it was when i bought it. The first one was a bit harsh, but i was hooked by the end of the first pack.

Now i can't even drink the stuff because its too watery.

 

[MaryB]

I don't hate IPA's I hate bitter for the sake of cramming as many hops into a beer as you can! I ave a 41 IBU IPA in the kegerator right now. Low end of the IPA bitter range, balanced, drinkable, I am not happy with the recipe 100% yet but for my own recipe not bad.

 

[Rhaop]

I hate when someone brings up a new local brewery and the first thing someone else says “no thanks, I’m not into ipas”

/facepalm

I enjoy a broad range of styles it just pisses me when most of the offerings in a local brewery are ipas and they either A just flat out suck or B have weird ingredients just to be different

I get the whole brew what sells but jeez make one or two ipas that are great not a bunch of swill so someone can have a flight of ipas to post on their multiple social media outlets

 

[bleme]

I hate when someone brings up a new local brewery and the first thing someone else says “no thanks, I’m not into ipas”

/facepalm

I enjoy a broad range of styles it just pisses me when most of the offerings in a local brewery are ipas and they either A just flat out suck or B have weird ingredients just to be different

I get the whole brew what sells but jeez make one or two ipas that are great not a bunch of swill so someone can have a flight of ipas to post on their multiple social media outlets

We just had a new craft brewery open in town that 'specializes' in sours. I ordered a whole flight of sours and they all tasted like lemon/vinegar. there was no complexity. I couldn't even tell a few of them apart except by color. I was so glad they also had an IPA to wash that nastiness out of my mouth.

 

[Rhaop]

We just had a new craft brewery open in town that 'specializes' in sours. I ordered a whole flight of sours and they all tasted like lemon/vinegar. there was no complexity. I couldn't even tell a few of them apart except by color. I was so glad they also had an IPA to wash that nastiness out of my mouth.

Hah touché

 

[Zekk]

We just had a new craft brewery open in town that 'specializes' in sours. I ordered a whole flight of sours and they all tasted like lemon/vinegar. there was no complexity. I couldn't even tell a few of them apart except by color. I was so glad they also had an IPA to wash that nastiness out of my mouth.

Which brewery?

Also, if a brewery has 10 beers on tap, 8 IPAs that sell like crazy and a stout and an amber that move slow. Why would the brewery make less IPA and more beer that doesn’t sell?

 

[lump42]

My go to is my house ale, a Extra Special English strong bitter(3 different people have put it in 3 categories, brown, ESB, plain biter...). Simple recipe, everyone likes it, great malt backbone...

First off - styles don't really matter, a rose by any other name and all that. But if you need to put it in a style, it's way too strong for a bitter or even a best bitter, and it's not really bitter enough for any of the English styles (depending on alpha content I make it 26 IBU, so BU:GU of 0.5?). Sounds a little bit too sweet for an English beer, USians generally seem to think English beers are sweeter than they are. And cask beers are rarely over 4.5%, things like ESB seem to be far more common in the US than in the UK.

You could just about call it a Scottish Export (leaving aside what I think of BJCP guidelines for Scotland ) but that hop bill really points to something on the Continent. It would need a change of yeast really, but you're not far off things like patersbier and marzen.

If its the house beer, MaryB should just start calling it something different, like a Minnesota Bitter or Minnesota Mild.

 

[MaryB]

I brew for myself and friends, no way am I turning a fun hobby into a job!

If its the house beer, MaryB should just start calling it something different, like a Minnesota Bitter or Minnesota Mild.

 

[Ed-Wort]

I pray one of them is not their chocolate cherry bock. God forbid. I hated that beer.

Dude, you are spot on with that assessment, freaking horrible stuff (I can't bring myself to call it beer.)

 

[Starderup]

It has been a few years since I would willingly purchase an IPA. It's a terrible fad, and I just won't participate. I have had a couple that weren't bad, but, no thanks.

 

[day_trippr]

"fad"?

 

[Starderup]

"fad"?

There, I said it.

 

[schematix]

Hazy IPA is a fad. Tongue thrashing crystal clear mega IPAs are coming back!

 

[Starderup]

I think all of them in the last 10 years or so is a fad, but the hazy is just the poster child. I just don't enjoy tongue thrashing beers, and I decline to consume them.