Intertap beer faucets

[meckisland]

That was my first thought too... I have the 425SS and they look pretty much just like them.
Good to know the spout's are the same thread size. I would only be interested in attachments, really like the 425SS faucets.

How do you think they compare?

Quality appears to be the same. I have not used the tap since the nozzle threads are the same as my 425s and I was just curious about this new tap as a spare. The growler filler is nice and the stout nozzle looks good. I have not had the opportunity to use. I might try this coming weekend for kicks.

 

[Turb]

I did contact the other distributor listed on Keg Kings website but they say they are wholesale only

 

[yeastylad]

I ordered 3 of these taps on Saturday. They arrived today (Monday). $6.99 shipping. That's faster than Amazon. Unbelievable! Great job Williams Brewing!!!

 

[mucci2k]

I sent Williams the following question and got the following reply. Might be a canned reply, but I suspect it's accurate.

That is the same answer I got. I figure the more we ask the more they push Keg Kings.

 

[Yesfan]

I like the fact that I can have a stout tap that's much cheaper and would match my 425ss. What is the difference between the stout spout and English sparkler Spout?


On a side note, what kind of tap handles are those in the video? They look shorter than the cheap generic black handles.

 

[mucci2k]

I sent Williams the following question and got the following reply. Might be a canned reply, but I suspect it's accurate.

We are unsure at this time if or when we will be carrying these parts.
Cheers

That is the same answer I got. I figure the more we ask the more they push Keg Kings.

 

[jczippy]

I ordered two of these and got them yesterday along with a growler filler and stout nozzle. I know some were looking for feedback on the stout pour. I replaced a micromatic JESF-3 with this. Clearly not the same control I had with the micromatic, but I was still able to manage pouring a Black and Tan (one intertap pouring an amber, the other with a dry stout and the stout attachment). Overall, with a much less bulky faucet and the ability to just change out the nozzle when changing to a stout, I think I'll be happy with these. Just let me know if you have any specific questions I could help with.

 

[passedpawn]

Clearly not the same control I had with the micromatic

Please explain. Thanks. I don't have a stout faucet, which is one of the reasons I'm interested in the Intertap.

 

[jczippy]

Please explain. Thanks. I don't have a stout faucet, which is one of the reasons I'm interested in the Intertap.

The micromatic has a two stage pour. You pull the handle down, it's fully open, and pours very similar to a standard faucet, but agitates the beer giving it the waterfall effect and the creamy head you would expect. All dependent on nitro and higher pressure, of course. The Intertap matches this portion of the pour. The micromatic, though, also allows you to push the handle forward instead of down for the last part of the pour. The speed of the pour is controlled by how hard you push. The biggest use I've had for this is topping off a Black and Tan with a slow pour to avoid disrupting the separation of the two brews. The Intertap doesn't do the second part. Still works fine, just less control.

I'm no expert, just started with my nitro setup in the fall, but that's the biggest difference based on my experience so far. I hope that helps.

 

[BBBF]

Do you have it on beer gas or are you just pouring a normal co2 beer through that stout nozzle?

 

[PlexVector]

Assuming the ID is roughly an inch and going with your 1.5" depth, the total volume would be .65 ounces (sans the displacement caused by the spring) - or about .5 ounces more than using a standard shank.

I'd guess there's at least that much trapped inside the faucet proper, so I'm not sure there's a game-changing issue there...Cheers!

If at least that much trapped inside the faucet proper, then the total is now 1 oz. I use a 4 oz tasting glass if I happen to be passing by while doing yard work, so that's about 1/3 the pour if I only pour 3 oz to allow for the extra head caused by the warmer portion of beer.

But I still agree with you!

 

[jczippy]

Do you have it on beer gas or are you just pouring a normal co2 beer through that stout nozzle?

I have it on beer gas. Not sure if the pour through the restrictor plate would work without the high pressure.

 

[gnef]

Those faucets definitely strike me as a knock off of the ventmatic design. If they were based in the US, I would expect a lawsuit unless proper royalties have been paid (this is as long as the patent is still good).

With that said, the surface roughness would definitely concern me. My ventmatics were machined and polished to an impressive degree. My Perlick faucets weren't even polished that well, though they are still smooth.

They do seem like they are trying to innovate with the self closing mechanism as well as the new spouts that they are trying to come out with, including the stout spout, which is an interesting thought.

Have any of you sent an email to ventmatic to see if they licensed his design?

 

[passedpawn]

Have any of you sent an email to ventmatic to see if they licensed his design?

You might be right, but why go looking for dragons to slay?

I was first considering the Vent-Matics, and likely will get them anyway considering the unavailability of the add-on stuff from the Intertaps. A guy on the ausiehomebrewer forum said the autoclosure thing drove him crazy and he hated it (different tap, same function though). So maybe that particular feature wasn't really useful.

 

[gnef]

You might be right, but why go looking for dragons to slay?

I guess to confirm what kind of company you are supporting. This may or may not be important to everyone though.

 

[passedpawn]

I guess to confirm what kind of company you are supporting. This may or may not be important to everyone though.

Pfft. Do you do a patent search on every product you buy? Of course not. And, BTW, given the irresponsibility of the US patent office, the entire patenting thing is irrelevant and just a way for lawyers to stay busy. I've been involved in this stuff (patents, which I have, and infringement lawsuits) for a long time and it's just rubbish.

 

[gnef]

Pfft. Do you do a patent search on every product you buy? Of course not. And, BTW, given the irresponsibility of the US patent office, the entire patenting thing is irrelevant and just a way for lawyers to stay busy. I've been involved in this stuff (patents, which I have, and infringement lawsuits) for a long time and it's just rubbish.

Well, as you seem to be the expert, I'll just say one last thing and be done. This, to me, seems to be a pretty clear knock off (similar to the Perlick 425ss which had to be discontinued due to the patent issues, if I remember correctly). There aren't that many game changing innovations in the homebrew world, and I consider the ventmatic faucet to be one of the very few, as he essentially invented the forward sealing design. I could understand if we still couldn't purchase his faucets (lots of drama there, and in full disclosure, I did buy 425ss faucets when ventmatics weren't available), but now that he is selling direct, it just doesn't seem right to me, unless intertap has either paid royalties, or have done their due diligence to ensure they are not infringing on intellectual property. To each their own, I suppose.

 

[passedpawn]

Well, as you seem to be the expert, I'll just say one last thing and be done. This, to me, seems to be a pretty clear knock off (similar to the Perlick 425ss which had to be discontinued due to the patent issues, if I remember correctly). There aren't that many game changing innovations in the homebrew world, and I consider the ventmatic faucet to be one of the very few, as he essentially invented the forward sealing design. I could understand if we still couldn't purchase his faucets (lots of drama there, and in full disclosure, I did buy 425ss faucets when ventmatics weren't available), but now that he is selling direct, it just doesn't seem right to me, unless intertap has either paid royalties, or have done their due diligence to ensure they are not infringing on intellectual property. To each their own, I suppose.

Don't go away. Why don't you contact Vent-Matic and post their response here. I was playing the devil's advocate; I'd prefer to buy 100% American-made products and I have no hesitation spending more $ to ensure I get the best product.

 

[gnef]

Don't go away. Why don't you contact Vent-Matic and post their response here. I was playing the devil's advocate; I'd prefer to buy 100% American-made products and I have no hesitation spending more $ to ensure I get the best product.

Well, I sent them an email, and received a quick response. I asked if I could post it, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.

In summary though, this is an infringement of their patents, and they did not license the use of Ventmatic's intellectual property.

With that, I can only recommend brewers not purchase these faucets, and for those that already bought them, to complain to the retailer that they are selling what amounts to a counterfeit product.

 

[passedpawn]

Just post it. Certainly if they responded to some stranger's email, they aren't being secretive.

Well, I sent them an email, and received a quick response. I asked if I could post it, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.

In summary though, this is an infringement of their patents, and they did not license the use of Ventmatic's intellectual property.

With that, I can only recommend brewers not purchase these faucets, and for those that already bought them, to complain to the retailer that they are selling what amounts to a counterfeit product.

 

[gnef]

Just post it. Certainly if they responded to some stranger's email, they aren't being secretive.

Well, I asked for their permission, so I'd prefer to wait at least a full business day first. If they don't get back to me by tomorrow evening, I'll post it in this thread.

 

[Yesfan]

Well, I asked for their permission, so I'd prefer to wait at least a full business day first. If they don't get back to me by tomorrow evening, I'll post it in this thread.

You went through all this trouble and got on a soapbox and everything, why not just post it? I don't think Ventmatic is going to sue if you do.


I don't see why you're making a big deal of this. The screw on spouts seem to be the only thing in common with the Ventmatics as others seem to indicate the closing mechanism is different and the diameter of the spout is different due to the auto shut off spring. You stated you have the Perlick 425, which is a knock off, so if you feel so strongly about the Intertaps infringing on Ventmatic's patent, why did you buy the 425s? Just seems like a double standard to me.


Back on topic.


Those who have these taps, does the accessories work with the Perlick 425 or Ventmatic? I wouldn't mind being able to turn one of my taps to a stout faucet. I have the growler filler and cleaning adapter from CHI and I know those work on my Perlicks. Just wondering if Intertap's spouts also work.

 

[afro_lou]

Well, shoot. This thread has now not only convinced me to buy one (got it last week), but now made me feel like a jerk for buying one.
Thanks.

Anyway, I hated my perlick, now I love the Intertap! If there is some sort of patent infringement, let the lawyers figure it out.

 

[EJay]

Well, shoot. This thread has now not only convinced me to buy one (got it last week), but now made me feel like a jerk for buying one.
Thanks.

Anyway, I hated my perlick, now I love the Intertap! If there is some sort of patent infringement, let the lawyers figure it out.

What did you hate about Perlick? I ask because I'm new to kegging and my state-of-the-art system is a plastic picnic tap, and I'm trying to decide between all the options at all the price points.

 

[gnef]

You went through all this trouble and got on a soapbox and everything, why not just post it? I don't think Ventmatic is going to sue if you do.


I don't see why you're making a big deal of this. The screw on spouts seem to be the only thing in common with the Ventmatics as others seem to indicate the closing mechanism is different and the diameter of the spout is different due to the auto shut off spring. You stated you have the Perlick 425, which is a knock off, so if you feel so strongly about the Intertaps infringing on Ventmatic's patent, why did you buy the 425s? Just seems like a double standard to me.


Back on topic.


Those who have these taps, does the accessories work with the Perlick 425 or Ventmatic? I wouldn't mind being able to turn one of my taps to a stout faucet. I have the growler filler and cleaning adapter from CHI and I know those work on my Perlicks. Just wondering if Intertap's spouts also work.

Actually, pretty much the entire design of the function of the faucet as a faucet is exactly like the ventmatic. So much so, that I would be pretty confident that if these were manufactured in the USA, there would already be a hefty lawsuit. That is really the problem here, and why these are available though, they aren't manufactured here, and IP laws are difficult to enforce internationally - also quite expensive.

As to why I had the 425ss, it was because ventmatics were not available for years. Once they became available again, I bought them immediately. I no longer have the 425ss.

Also, I consider the Intellectual Property to be quite germane to the topic at hand, and in my opinion should be important to us as homebrewers. If we don't stand up for those that are innovating for us, we are hurting future innovations in the field.

As I said before, I want to provide ventmatic with an appropriate amount of time to decline for me to post their email. A singular email is different than an online posting, and I want to show them as much respect as possible.

Again, this may or may not be important to everyone (obviously, you feel different than I do), but I do think that we can agree that everyone should have as much information as possible to be able to make an educated decision.

I assume most that bought this counterfeit faucet didn't know about the design characteristics of the ventmatic faucet, or even know that they have patents for the unique forward sealing design. I've followed ventmatic for about a decade at this point (the story is long and complicated), so when I saw these new faucets, it struck me immediately. Most posters in this forum most likely do not know the history compared to those of us who have been part of this community when the forward sealing design just came out (trust me, it was extraordinary).

I'd rather this not turn into an argument, I'm simply trying to present facts as best I can.

 

[cfrazier77]

Patents work a little differently than as being discussed. Patients not only affect the country of manufacture, but also the country of sale. So, if Vent-Matic has a current patent they can legally prevent the sale of these in America with a simple cease and desist letter.
I know this from the roller skate and hockey industry. I have family in that field and almost none of those products are made in the US, they are made in various countries like China, Thailand, and Mexico. But the patents are filed in the US. Infringing products brought into the US can and do get shut down pretty quickly. If you have high priced lawyers it can be drug out, but it still comes to an end. This is exactly what recently happened with Samsung and Apple phones, neither which is made in the US.

So the question is does Vent-Matic have valid current patent? Patents do expire after a number of years.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, Here is the key patent in question, with a filing date of Dec 13, 2001.

As this is a utility patent filed after June 8, 1995, "in the United States, under current patent law, the term of patent, provided that maintenance fees are paid on time" is 20 years...

Cheers!

[edit/ps] If you go to the end of that linked page you'll see an array of related patent references - including a few from competitors - and some interesting faucet designs...

 

[JoshuaW]

As far as the patent issues, of course Vent-matic is going to think they are infringing, why would they want competitors! From the design, it looks to me like Intertap has made adequate improvements. I'm not a patent lawyer though, and even if I was, this isn't our battle. Patent infringement isn't the copying of an idea, but rather copying the execution. Intertap isn't from a country that is known for knock offs, so I trust them to have done their due diligence. If they are delivering a superior value, I'm interested. Whether or not they get sued doesn't impact me.

With that said, I can appreciate the level of respect that people have for manufacturers in this hobby, and I think the fact we are having this discussion at all is very cool. Hopefully it will turn out that everything is on the up and up so we can all enjoy seeing some competition in this area where it is severely lacking.

 

[okiedog]

Now, you have me wondering: did Perlick steal the forward seal design from Ventmatic? Didn't Ventmatic precede Perlick by a few years?

 

[gnef]

Now, you have me wondering: did Perlick steal the forward seal design from Ventmatic? Didn't Ventmatic precede Perlick by a few years?

The short of it that I recall now, is that Perlick did not have proper rights to use the design.

The longer version deals with a lot of patent law (which I've forgotten a lot of the terms) when a business goes out of business, and the patents were transferred to a third party, things moved around, came back to original patent holder, perlick had to stop manufacturing and selling the 425ss, and thus developed the perl line. You will notice that there is no removable spout, and no shuttle on the newer ones from Perlick. This is all from memory, but that should give you a general idea of what happened.

I am now on all 650ss faucets because I need the flow control for my particular setup. If I could use regular faucets, I would be using only ventmatic faucets. The machining, finish, reliability, and overall quality are top notch on the ventmatic faucets. The ones I had, I had used for at least 9 years, and when I took them off, they still looked fantastic.