Interesting PM...

[dnslater]

Sounds like both parties took the high road. Nice to see today. When I came up with my fictitious name below for my basement brewing operation I did a google search to make sure there was nothing like it, even though I have no intentions of moving out of expanding my "operation".

If you go pro, you could always go with "South County Brew House" or South County Brew Werks"

 

[Airborneguy]

For anyone who is interested, you can actually go to the Trademark Bureau's website and do a search to see if your "name" is in there.

 

[AnOldUR]

I think it was handled quite tastefully. Yes, this is a homebrew forum, but if you've been here long, you'd know going pro from this forum isn't exactly uncommon.

My thought also.

 

[BrewForMe]

Agreed that things were very professional. As stated many homebrewers may at some point make it to the big leagues. If thats the case, you would have found out when you tried to register your brewery name that it was already taken. What if... My only other thought is, which of our homebrewing members is his attorney?

 

[Bmorebrew]

This was handled about as well as it could have been by both parties as far as I can tell. It is true that the pro brewer has a mandate to inform - he's obviously not particularly thrilled about it, but it is something he has to do. illin8 I think took it the right way, and it seems most on here see it that way. I'm sure the pro is not a multimillionaire, just another one of use who decided to take the plunge, and so my hat is off to him. Cut the guy some slack.

 

[Pappers_]

That was a very nice, pleasant and thoughtful PM in my opinion.

 

[Gridlocked]

I agree with Pappers.

 

[bluemoose]

It's the pro brewer's responsibility to send that letter. As a businessman, he must or forfeit the trademark through inaction. I don't think it could have been handled in a nicer way and, frankly, I'm surprised at your comments.

I agree. I think he makes it quite clear this is a cost of his doing business. Hey guy, just letting you know I was here first. Don't start with this name and lay out a bunch of money for tee shirts cause I own the name. I Would do the same for someone using my business name. Who needs to get lawyers involved down the road.
Look what happend between Polar and Coca-Cola, and the bear.

 

[Homercidal]

Handled perfectly. The brewery made notice that this was no threat right up front. He informed the Homebrewer that the name was already taken and that the brewery recognizes the sometimes Homebrewers go pro. This was his way of letting the Hoembrewer know in advance that the names already used. This could potentially save the Homebrewer a LOT of headache and cash if by chance he did decide to open a business.

The brewery could have stuck their head in the sand and waited until the Homebrewer started his business before saying anything, thereby wasting tons of time and money on a necessary lawsuit.

There was no threat and no indication that the homebrewer need do anything.

 

[mikeysab]

If it was that easy for his lawyer to find the name in a Google search, then anybody can find it that easy. Lets say someone had their beer and liked it. They go home and do a search and come across a homebrewers sig saying "Yada yada yada brewery". With the stigma surrounding homebrewing by non homebrewers, the person could say "These guys make beer in their bathtub, i aint drinkin that no more". His thinking could be that he doesnt want a hobby brewer losing him customers. Although the hobby brewer might be making better beer than his. IMO he should have hand written the letter and stapled it to the side of a mixed case of his full lineup. THAT would have been sexy.

 

[Big_Belgian]

If it was that easy for his lawyer to find the name in a Google search, then anybody can find it that easy. Lets say someone had their beer and liked it. They go home and do a search and come across a homebrewers sig saying "Yada yada yada brewery". With the stigma surrounding homebrewing by non homebrewers, the person could say "These guys make beer in their bathtub, i aint drinkin that no more". His thinking could be that he doesnt want a hobby brewer losing him customers. Although the hobby brewer might be making better beer than his. IMO he should have hand written the letter and stapled it to the side of a mixed case of his full lineup. THAT would have been sexy.

This could be a concern, but as others have noted, the real issue is that the owner of a brand has to take steps to protect the brand, even in cases where there is no real threat of competition. This could have nothing to do with this particular homebrewer. In a future case, there might be a real threat to their brand from another source who is actually competing and using their tradename or logo. If they end up in a legal battle with that hypothetical future competitor, they now have at least one piece of evidence in their file showing a historical effort to enforce their rights in the brand. Conversely, had they done nothing, their opponent in that hypothetical future case could use their inaction against them, as evidence that they knowingly allowed others to use the brand, which is inconsistent with a claim that the brand is valuable and exclusive.

 

[Hernando]

Well said Big Belgian. Keepin mind this pro brewer has no idea what your financial situation is. Most pro brewers start some where and that some where is usually homebrewing. I thought it was cool he handled it personally and didn't sicc his lawyer on you.

Cheers and happy Friday!

 

[petep1980]

If you're concerned you could change the name of your "brewery", not really a big deal.

 

[olllllo]

Of note: Rarely enforced but we (HBT) do not encourage (actually can be bannable offense in some circumstances) re-posting of PM (Private Messages) on the public board without consent of all parties.

tl;dr Don't repost PM's please.

 

[mdgagne]

I hope that you took him up on the offer to send a bomber of ale. You should reciprocate with your version of a similar style and see what he thinks.

 

[stamandster]

Maybe he should start working for him?

I thought it was a professional, unoffensive letter.

 

[the_trout]

This could be a concern, but as others have noted, the real issue is that the owner of a brand has to take steps to protect the brand, even in cases where there is no real threat of competition. This could have nothing to do with this particular homebrewer. In a future case, there might be a real threat to their brand from another source who is actually competing and using their tradename or logo. If they end up in a legal battle with that hypothetical future competitor, they now have at least one piece of evidence in their file showing a historical effort to enforce their rights in the brand. Conversely, had they done nothing, their opponent in that hypothetical future case could use their inaction against them, as evidence that they knowingly allowed others to use the brand, which is inconsistent with a claim that the brand is valuable and exclusive.

I agree with Big Belgian. It's not about being threatend by this particular homebrewer its about the legalities of protecting a trademark/copywrite. Nice to see all parties took the high road and handled things with class. I'd send him a sample of my homebrew as well.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

Wow. I hope my brew house name is not trademarked yet. It's the "Hairy Beaver Brewing Company".

 

[LVBen]

Have a throwdown! Whoever makes the better beer gets to keep the name!

 

[bambam190]

I think he did a good job of pointing it out, in a non threatening way, no ill will wanted from either party, I' change the name of my home brewery if I recieved a letter like that, its no big deal and gives me something to think about when I'm having a beer.

 

[headbanger]

Legally you can refer to your garage, basement, or wherever you brew however you see fit. You could call it the anheiser bush brewery if you felt like it and there's not one dang thing anybody else can do about it.

 

[MBasile]

I think he did a good job of pointing it out, in a non threatening way, no ill will wanted from either party, I' change the name of my home brewery if I recieved a letter like that, its no big deal and gives me something to think about when I'm having a beer.

Legally you can refer to your garage, basement, or wherever you brew however you see fit. You could call it the anheiser bush brewery if you felt like it and there's not one dang thing anybody else can do about it.

Changing what he refers to his home brewing hobby as wasn't the issue. The brewer/owner didn't tell him to change anything. Just gave him a heads up that if he did try to take it pro, the name is already in use and protected.

Something something stitch in time.

 

[bambam190]

Changing what he refers to his home brewing hobby as wasn't the issue. The brewer/owner didn't tell him to change anything. Just gave him a heads up that if he did try to take it pro, the name is already in use and protected.

Something something stitch in time.

My point was that its just a name to me, its his business. Your point is valid, I just like the idea of guys making a go of this hobby professionally, and I support it.


BTW.... I googled the brewery, he just opened on July 1st. I bet he was looking around to see if anyone else had used his name.

 

[bluemoose]

If he recently opened the OP could make the case he has been using it at least since his first post on this site. I know this is not the point, but it is an interesting development. If he wanted to press the issue, he probably could.

 

[MBasile]

If he recently opened the OP could make the case he has been using it at least since his first post on this site. I know this is not the point, but it is an interesting development. If he wanted to press the issue, he probably could.

But does non-commercial use = trademark?

 

[bambam190]

Isn't it first trademark first served? like a patient?

 

[Airborneguy]

Copyrights can be pressed based on proof that the person was using it/created it/suggested it, etc. But trademarks must be registered. I don't see someone being able to overcome a registered trademark being used for commercial purposes using a forum signature as proof. If you look on the trademark website, it clearly states that even if you do register a trademark, it must be actually used commercially within 6 months or else you have to file for an extension.

 

[MBasile]

Copyrights can be pressed based on proof that the person was using it/created it/suggested it, etc.

Define "use" though. It seems like using it as your a label for our home brewing hobby wouldn't stand up against commercial use.

 

[Airborneguy]

Actually if anything would survive, it would be a label because it would be considered original artwork. If I could prove it was mine and they copied it, the type of use shouldn't matter.

I published a book a few years ago and never officially copyrighted it because I learned that as long as I could prove when I wrote the book (it was published, so duh), I would get some level of copyright protection anyway.

 

[ToddO]

Happened to Firestone-

http://www.brewbound.com/news/headlines/firestone-walker-to-change-name-of-abacus/

They handled it wonderfully. It happens. Put yourself in their shoes - would you have handled it as well? Come up with a new name and move on..