Interesting idea regarding Amylase Enzyme

[DNSDies]

So, after playing Dwarf Fortress for too long, I got to thinking about something.

The dwarfs in this game brew beer from mushrooms, which seems odd because most mushrooms have very very little in the way of sugars.

I did some research, however, and discovered something interesting. Your average 100g (about 3.5oz) of dried shiitake mushrooms has about 2.21 grams of sugar.
This is pretty much in line with most other edible mushrooms, but still the highest sugar concentration in the world for mushrooms.

What hit me as interesting though, was that they also have a whopping 75.37 grams of carbohydrates. That's a LOT of potential sugar.

When brewing beer, you use the malt's natural enzymes to break down the carbohydrates to simple sugars so your yeast convert them to alcohol, so why can't one just ADD enzymes to a wort with some finely chopped dried shiitake mushrooms and let those same enzymes convert the mushrooms into sugars, then brew that "mushroom wort" into a beer?

Well, I've decided that this is something I need to pursue.
The problem is, I have no real experience with amylase enzyme, how to use it, what the efficiency is, and how to test for sugar content.

This is where I need help.
How can I start with this?

 

[Woodbury419]

So, after playing Dwarf Fortress for too long, I got to thinking about something.

The dwarfs in this game brew beer from mushrooms, which seems odd because most mushrooms have very very little in the way of sugars.

I did some research, however, and discovered something interesting. Your average 100g (about 3.5oz) of dried shiitake mushrooms has about 2.21 grams of sugar.
This is pretty much in line with most other edible mushrooms, but still the highest sugar concentration in the world for mushrooms.

What hit me as interesting though, was that they also have a whopping 75.37 grams of carbohydrates. That's a LOT of potential sugar.

When brewing beer, you use the malt's natural enzymes to break down the carbohydrates to simple sugars so your yeast convert them to alcohol, so why can't one just ADD enzymes to a wort with some finely chopped dried shiitake mushrooms and let those same enzymes convert the mushrooms into sugars, then brew that "mushroom wort" into a beer?

Well, I've decided that this is something I need to pursue.
The problem is, I have no real experience with amylase enzyme, how to use it, what the efficiency is, and how to test for sugar content.

This is where I need help.
How can I start with this?

You sir, have an idea that I would have never EVER considered..lol, I applaud your idea :rockin: . Now, I have used Amylase enzyme when brewing with high adjuncts such as corn or rice when I lack 6-row and have Vienna or Pilsner malt as my base malt in stock. Now, the Amylase enzyme I procured was from Amazon and it came in a 1lb bag (its the stuff excreted from bacteria) it works wonders when I used it. Only 1-2 grams is all i ever need for that stuff, although I am curious how funky your wort would smell when mashing the Shrooms..haha! I'm totally thinking about Alice in Wonderland right now!! Shroomtastic Ale! lol

 

[MrFinstad]

No need to add any extra amylase for most mashes, just throw the boomers...I mean mushrooms right in. There should be plenty of enzymes to break down any carbs that are available.

Sure you can get sugar/carbohydrates from mushrooms, but it begs the question why? Barley has plenty of sugar that yeast can eat readily, and maltose which gives that awesome maltiness. What types of sugars do mushrooms have? Are these gonna taste good to anyone but trolls?

Let us know what you find out. But remember, you don't need to mash mushrooms to put them in your beer. I seem to remember trying mushroom tea once, and that worked just fine. Why not just toss them in the boil?

 

[DNSDies]

Well, here's the thing.

I don't want to use any barley or malt or grains.
I want this to just be MUSHROOM BEER, with maybe some hops for aroma and flavor.

I know that isn't technically a beer anymore, but I must try it.

Additionally, the 2.5% of sugars in shiitake mushrooms is dextrose (glucose).
The carbohydrates in mushrooms would likely break down into maltrose as well.

certain mushrooms actually produce a small quatity of amylase.
Portobella mushrooms, for example, produce some that converts their carbohydrates to a 80/20 mixture of glucose and fuctose, albeit in VERY VERY small quantities (2.5% by weight)
Maitake mushrooms actually are 0.33% lactose.

Here's a neat list of mushrooms and their sugar content per 100g I constructed during my reseach.

Crimini - 1.72g per 100
Portabella - 2.5g per 100 - 80% glucose 20% fructose
Shiitake - 2.38g per 100 - pure glucose
Maitake - 2.07 per 100 - 1.74 Glucose, 0.33 lactose
(Champignon)White - 1.65g per 100
Oyster - 1.11g per 100 - pure glucose
Enoki - 0.22g per 100
Chanterelle - 1.16g per 100
Morel - 0.6 per 100 - pure glucose

Shiitake - Dried
Sugars 2.21 grams per 100 grams
Carbs 75.37 grams per 100 grams
It's also worth noting that Shiitake mushrooms have the highest concentration of polysaccharides among all mushrooms.

 

[thegerm]

just like in a traditional mash, your sugar source isn't going to be the sugars in the mushrooms themselves, but the carbohydrates that are converted to maltose by the enzymes. so you probably need to research more into the carbohydrate structure of the mushroom flesh and how that relates to the carbohydrates in barley flour. Also what is the ideal method for making those starches available to the alpha amylaze, assuming that they are a kind of starch that can be broken down by alpha amylaze at all.

I think I'd start simply by boiling the mushrooms then mashing them or blending them into a paste, then take small batches and adding small amounts of enzyme with the mushroom mush at about 148 and seeing if it converts after an hour or so... easiest way is to taste the result and see if it's sweet.

you could also try just blending fresh mushrooms as well, but I'd have to imagine that you would probably need to cook them to increase the enzyme accessibility to the starches.

and you'd probably need some sort of lautering medium... like a metric ****ton of rice hulls.

sounds like a very cool experiment, anyway. good luck.

 

[BrewMU]

You should toss in some browned flour (beer or not, you don't want that raw-flour taste). Add some basic seasonings and German Ale yeast, you've got Jagerschnitzel Brau!
I bet it'd go great with pommes frites(french fries).

 

[DNSDies]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050218161310.htm

apparently, some cool science people in 2005 did a complete cataloging of all the carbohydrates found in various popular mushrooms.

Turns out that Shiitake and Maitake mushrooms are chock full of carbohydrates that can be broken down into sugars, making them excellent candidates for amylase enzymes.

This is really cool, I'm definitely going to do this.
I think I'll do a 1 gallon "show brew" with just mushrooms, enzyme, water, and yeast, and see if the flavor is worthwhile.

From there, I can decide on additives, like maybe the browned flour idea.

 

[Shooter]

I really think you two should talk!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/poor-mans-wet-cob-ale-279707/