Interesting Article On "Juicy" NE-IPA's

[Dgallo]

The problem with this style for some of you that aren’t too found of them is that there are so many terrible representations of them. Like most were saying, everyone brewery has one and will just throw flaked grains and heavily dryhop them, then push them out. So many breweries are pushing these murky NEIPAS with hop astringency and no true body or mouthfeel. I don’t blame the players though, I blame the game.

Again you could make the same argument for all the dessert/milk/pastry stouts that are coming out. As long as it’s slick and taste somewhat like a dessert people go crazy about them. Even if there isn’t even the slightest hit of roasted grains.

 

[cactusgarrett]

From the article you linked:

"Unlike its west coast brethren, hazy IPAs are made with a process known as dry hopping (whereby hops are added to already-fermented wort) to impart aroma and tropical flavors without bitterness."

Yeah, author lost a LOT of credibility in my eyes when trying to talk shop.

 

[wepeeler]

Every style of beer has a peak window and NEIPAs seem to have a much shorter window for sure. I bought a few cases of various Tree House beers a couple years ago and they definitely started to 'fade' over weeks and months but they were always good and drinkable.

If you ask TH staff, they'll tell you to consume it within a month. TH beer doesn't fade as fast as a lot of other breweries who's claim to fame is the neipa. But I've had reputable names go bad in cans in less than 2 weeks. It's a shame. It has to be a canning/oxygen issue.

I transfer my neipas with an auto-siphon and an open fermenter, and (I don't even want to jinx myself by posting this, but...) I've never had oxidation issues. Beer is bright and fresh to the last drop, often 6 weeks or more.

 

[Broothru]

Thanks to the OP for copying the article. I saw it when it first was published, forwarding it to my son and son-in-law, but then didn't send it to myself.

When NEIPAs first became a "thing" the wife and I headed up to Vermont to check out the source (Alchemist) but had to turn back due to a death in the family before getting the chance to try one. Since then I've tried MANY and can say without equivocation that I haven't found ONE that has lived up to the hype. Conversely my first Pliny (consumed at the brewery) has become the beer by which I judge all others. And I've tasted many different beers and beer styles throughout Europe, Asia, South America and domesticly from coast to coast in the U.S.

But NEIPAs leave me perplexed and frustrated. I WANT to like them, but I just haven't found one out of the 2 dozen or so I've tried. I studied the style and perused the recipes and techniques here and other sources before brewing my own, and still didn't like the final product.

I'm hoping we head back to New England this fall so I can take one last bite of the apple, hopefully from Alchemist or Treehouse. But I'm afraid the article sums up the real problem with NEIPA: it's a fad being driven by the trend-setters and hipsters with man-buns, rather than true lovers of all things Beer. Once the "next shiny object" comes around, they'll drop their affectation as if it were a used Kleenex, leaving the breweries to lurch to the latest and greatest "in" thing.

Or I might just be Clint Eastwood in "Grand Torino" yelling, "Get off my lawn, kid."

Brooo Brother

 

[applescrap]

It's sad and probably the only problem with hbt imo, that I cant tell you what I really think.

 

[NeoBrew]

I'm a NEIPA hater. I've purposefully tried a handful. I think I finally had one that was actually not too old and at least got an idea what they are supposed to taste like. All the others I've tried were by accident because I ordered an IPA, and I got a cloudy glass of beer.

Last time I went out to eat I ordered a Bell's Two Hearted and got a cloudy glass of something. The poor waitress, she just couldn't understand why a Tow Hearted shouldn't look like that. (Turns out there was a mix up at the bar, the replacement glass was delicious.)

Maybe I'm just slow to change, but at their best I don't think a NEIPA embodies the qualities that I think of for a beer. They lack the crispness and bitterness that I find refreshing in a beer. For the most part I've found them to be much more in line with a fruit juice than beer. If I wanted alcoholic fruit juice I'd have a mojito or something.

NEIPA, the wine cooler of beers!

 

[Dgallo]

I'm a NEIPA hater. I've purposefully tried a handful. I think I finally had one that was actually not too old and at least got an idea what they are supposed to taste like. All the others I've tried were by accident because I ordered an IPA, and I got a cloudy glass of beer.

Last time I went out to eat I ordered a Bell's Two Hearted and got a cloudy glass of something. The poor waitress, she just couldn't understand why a Tow Hearted shouldn't look like that. (Turns out there was a mix up at the bar, the replacement glass was delicious.)

Maybe I'm just slow to change, but at their best I don't think a NEIPA embodies the qualities that I think of for a beer. They lack the crispness and bitterness that I find refreshing in a beer. For the most part I've found them to be much more in line with a fruit juice than beer. If I wanted alcoholic fruit juice I'd have a mojito or something.

NEIPA, the wine cooler of beers!

You’re the type of person that frustrates me so much when it comes to this style. I understand you don’t like it and that’s cool and all but you have no idea how difficult it is to brew a trully quality example of this beer, just to mock it. I personally cannot stand clove-phenol producing belgians yeast that over power the flavor of the complex grains, but I don’t crap on the style because I know it takes skill to produce the right flavor for the style.

For NEIPAS, To take a hop and get a complex flavor from it by using different timing and temperatures to pull out bright flavors. With the correct combination of hops and proper ratio of each variety to be non conflicting. Also To manage the beer post fermentation so delicately to minimize any oxygen contact. If you aren’t able to get your hands on a fresh exemplary beer of the style or don’t like hops, then you’ll never get it.

 

[couchsending]

I could go on and on about this topic..

I can't even stand the term "NEIPA".

Don't get me wrong I love me some hazy beer but that terms has come to mean a completely different thing than
the best versions of the style or the brewers that made the style popular. The biggest issue with this "style" is
that people like John Kimmich and Shaun Hill, and even Nate from Tree House were very tight lipped about how they
were making these beers. Rightfully so, the places (although maybe not Tree House as much) are located in sparsely
populated areas, they needed to hold certain things cost to the vest in order to get people to travel to their locations
to keep their businesses viable. Consequently you had all these home brewers trying to come up with all these
shortcuts to make the beers hazy, so everyone now thinks you need a super sweet beer made with piles of wheat and
oats, with no hops in the kettle, and "biotransformation" dry hopping. You end up with a thick, muddled, often astringent mess that sure smells like fruit but is impossible to consume more than one of.

Alchemist beers are bitter, most Hill Farmstead hoppy beers are bitter. It's not lingering bitterness though. They're
bitter right up front but the bitterness fades cause the water is correct and the beer is brewed a specific way, the right way.

There's more hops added hot side and in the kettle in Julius than in the dry hop. There's no oats or wheat in Alchemist beers, no flaked adjuncts in any core Tree House beer. No wheat or oats in Hill farmstead hoppy beers unless otherwise noted (at least not a significant amount). But you have people like Randy Mosher saying you need a grist bill of 50% high protein adjusts to make these beers.

Shaun Hill and John Kimmich were just trying to make better hoppy beers. They didn't want all the caramel malt, a slightly softer profile, but a more aromatic, flavorful hoppy beer. They don't make NEIPA, they just make IPA. It's just not fined or filtered, or even centrifuged so they're hazy. The brewers just believe that their beers were worse when they made them clear so they didn't bother. Why would you make something taste or smell worse just to make it clear and theoretically shelf stable if it didn't need to be??? Since the beers weren't being distributed, except within a very short radius of the brewery in the case of the Alchemist, they didn't need to worry about shelf stability. If you didn't instantly put your delivered Heady in some sort of refrigeration they would say you couldn't sell it any more. It would last maximum two days on the shelf back in the day.

Too you get all these small breweries that think they can turn these crazy hazy super dry hopped beers in two weeks, and frankly they need to in order to make money. Except you can't do that with heavily dry hopped beers, they need time to condition if you're not going to filter or fine them. That time is money and all these small breweries can't hold up a tank for an extra week to get all the polyphenols to drop out. Consequently there's all this astringent, bitter, horrible beer on the market that looks like sludge and is painful to drink, but man does it smell great. Then all the sludge falls out and drags the hop oils with it and two weeks later you're left with a clear beer that's started to oxidize cause most likely that brewery doesn't know what their TPO levels are. And frankly they don't care cause it all sell every week, right.

For me Hill Farmstead is the pinnacle of IPA. They won't blow you away with explosive aromatics or overly saturated
juice profiles like beers you get at Other Half or The Veil, Monkish or Trillium. They're incredibly well balanced with
plenty of bitterness to make them drinkable, an incredibly soft profile that explodes with flavor at the the front of
your palate yet disappears mid palate and leaves you wanting more. They are also great representations of the hops
used in them. You can pick out the Simcoe in a 3 hop blend. You have a single hop Mosaic beer and it tastes exactly like awesome Mosaic does. They don't taste like rotting (or overripe as a lot of breweries like to say now) fruit salad, they taste like awesome representations of the hops. I do think Shaun selects more fruit forward version of the hops where as Kimmich seems to like more of the dank, weedy, later harvest versions. With so many breweries now and these hops
being in such demand there is a ton of horrible Mosaic and Citra out there. If it's smell like onions and BO it's simply bad. So many small breweries can't afford to not use a bag of hops they paid decent money for if they open it and it smells like onions or cheese. It's sad but it's the truth unfortunately.

The best breweries are making the best beer. It's the same with every style. The issue with this "style" or what
people think this "style" should be can be very polarizing if it's bad cause it's meant to have such a huge impact,
and often that impact isn't great.

If you've never been to Hill Farmstead, I'd highly suggest you go. It's an amazing experience. World class hoppy
beers, world class old world lagers, world class Belgian inspired mixed fermentation beers, and probably the best
4% or sub 4% beers you'll ever drink. Not sure there's another place in the world doing what they do at the level
that they do it. The attention to detail that goes into the liquid across so many styles can't be found at many places.
Wish I could say the same thing about a lot more craft breweries right now but unfortunately that's the sate of
craft.

 

[lowtones84]

I could go on and on about this topic..

Consequently you had all these home brewers trying to come up with all these
shortcuts to make the beers hazy, so everyone now thinks you need a super sweet beer made with piles of wheat and oats, with no hops in the kettle, and "biotransformation" dry hopping. You end up with a thick, muddled, often astringent mess that sure smells like fruit but is impossible to consume more than one of.

I highly agree with most of what you're saying here. Unfortunately this is not limited to homebrewers. There are a lot of commercial breweries out there putting out what you described above. I love a good "NEIPA" but even something like Treehouse I can't really drink more than 2 of in one sitting. The character saturates the palate and they are sweet, as over in the TH we've been discussing beers with an FG near 1.020. Their beers are delicious though, and I can't fault them. It's more my taste.

Too you get all these small breweries that think they can turn these crazy hazy super dry hopped beers in two weeks, and frankly they need to in order to make money. Except you can't do that with heavily dry hopped beers, they need time to condition if you're not going to filter or fine them. That time is money and all these small breweries can't hold up a tank for an extra week to get all the polyphenols to drop out. Consequently there's all this astringent, bitter, horrible beer on the market that looks like sludge and is painful to drink, but man does it smell great. Then all the sludge falls out and drags the hop oils with it and two weeks later you're left with a clear beer that's started to oxidize cause most likely that brewery doesn't know what their TPO levels are. And frankly they don't care cause it all sell every week, right.

That's another problem with the over-saturation of the market with this style. Most breweries can't manage a product that has more than a two week window that it's pleasurable to drink. It must be refrigerated at all times, and even then some have a tiny window. I don't think the average consumer is actually treating these beers correctly, and sometimes people say "WOW!" and give it 5 stars on untappd because of hype, not because it's a good beer.

With so many breweries now and these hops being in such demand there is a ton of horrible Mosaic and Citra out there. If it's smell like onions and BO it's simply bad. So many small breweries can't afford to not use a bag of hops they paid decent money for if they open it and it smells like onions or cheese. It's sad but it's the truth unfortunately.

I've tasted this in most beers heavily featuring late Citra in the past two years, even from good breweries. Examples from Equilibrium, Monkish, and Toppling Goliath. I used to be lucky enough to live right near Three Floyds when they were hot, and Zombie Dust never tasted anything like that. What's going on? Literally some of the worst beers I've had in my life are some of these IPAs with basically no bitterness and a ton of late citra, so it just tastes like a sweet, thick, oniony mess.

All this said, I'm not a "NEIPA" hater. Great examples are great and will always have a place on the shelf in my refrigerator. I do think the massive fad will die down, but that type of beer existing is probably here to stay.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I could go on and on about this topic..

I can't even stand the term "NEIPA".

Don't get me wrong I love me some hazy beer but that terms has come to mean a completely different thing than
the best versions of the style or the brewers that made the style popular. The biggest issue with this "style" is
that people like John Kimmich and Shaun Hill, and even Nate from Tree House were very tight lipped about how they
were making these beers. Rightfully so, the places (although maybe not Tree House as much) are located in sparsely
populated areas, they needed to hold certain things cost to the vest in order to get people to travel to their locations
to keep their businesses viable. Consequently you had all these home brewers trying to come up with all these
shortcuts to make the beers hazy, so everyone now thinks you need a super sweet beer made with piles of wheat and
oats, with no hops in the kettle, and "biotransformation" dry hopping. You end up with a thick, muddled, often astringent
mess that sure smells like fruit but is impossible to consume more than one of.

Alchemist beers are bitter, most Hill Farmstead hoppy beers are bitter. It's not lingering bitterness though. They're
bitter right up front but the bitterness fades cause the water is correct and the beer is brewed a specific way, the right way.

There's more hops added hot side and in the kettle in Julius than in the dry hop. There's no oats or wheat in Alchemist beers,
no flaked adjuncts in any core Tree House beer. No wheat or oats in Hill farmstead hoppy beers unless otherwise noted
(at least not a significant amount). But you have people like Randy Mosher saying you need a grist bill of 50% high protein
adjusts to make these beers.

Shaun Hill and John Kimmich were just trying to make better hoppy beers. They didn't want all the caramel malt, a slightly
softer profile, but a more aromatic, flavorful hoppy beer. They don't make NEIPA, they just make IPA. It's just not fined or filtered,
or even centrifuged so they're hazy. The brewers just believe that their beers were worse when they made them clear
so they didn't bother. Why would you make something taste or smell worse just to make it clear and theoretically shelf stable if it
didn't need to be??? Since the beers weren't being distributed, except within a very short radius of the brewery in
the case of the Alchemist, they didn't need to worry about shelf stability. If you didn't instantly put your delivered Heady in
some sort of refrigeration they would say you couldn't sell it any more. It would last maximum two days on the shelf back
in the day.

Too you get all these small breweries that think they can turn these crazy hazy super dry hopped beers in two
weeks, and frankly they need to in order to make money. Except you can't do that with heavily dry hopped beers,
they need time to condition if you're not going to filter or fine them. That time is money and all these small breweries
can't hold up a tank for an extra week to get all the polyphenols to drop out. Consequently there's all this astringent,
bitter, horrible beer on the market that looks like sludge and is painful to drink, but man does it smell great. Then all
the sludge falls out and drags the hop oils with it and two weeks later you're left with a clear beer that's started to
oxidize cause most likely that brewery doesn't know what their TPO levels are. And frankly they don't care cause it all
sell every week, right.

For me Hill Farmstead is the pinnacle of IPA. They won't blow you away with explosive aromatics or overly saturated
juice profiles like beers you get at Other Half or The Veil, Monkish or Trillium. They're incredibly well balanced with
plenty of bitterness to make them drinkable, an incredibly soft profile that explodes with flavor at the the front of
your palate yet disappears mid palate and leaves you wanting more. They are also great representations of the hops
used in them. You can pick out the Simcoe in a 3 hop blend. You have a single hop Mosaic beer and it tastes exactly like awesome
Mosaic does. They don't taste like rotting (or overripe as a lot of breweries like to say now) fruit salad, they taste like
awesome representations of the hops. I do think Shaun selects more fruit forward version of the hops where as
Kimmich seems to like more of the dank, weedy, later harvest versions. With so many breweries now and these hops
being in such demand there is a ton of horrible Mosaic and Citra out there. If it's smell like onions and BO it's simply bad.
So many small breweries can't afford to not use a bag of hops they paid decent money for if they open it and it smells
like onions or cheese. It's sad but it's the truth unfortunately.

The best breweries are making the best beer. It's the same with every style. The issue with this "style" or what
people think this "style" should be can be very polarizing if it's bad cause it's meant to have such a huge impact,
and often that impact isn't great.

If you've never been to Hill Farmstead, I'd highly suggest you go. It's an amazing experience. World class hoppy
beers, world class old world lagers, world class Belgian inspired mixed fermentation beers, and probably the best
4% or sub 4% beers you'll ever drink. Not sure there's another place in the world doing what they do at the level
that they do it. The attention to detail that goes into the liquid across so many styles can't be found at many places.
Wish I could say the same thing about a lot more craft breweries right now but unfortunately that's the sate of
craft.

But who decided that those examples you gave as the best are everyone's preference? Is it possible that people actually prefer a sweet neipa over a bitter one hence why it's the best selling beer and not the other way around? If those examples you gave are so different from what everyone else is making and selling like wild fire what's your point? Pliny the elder might not be everyone's favorite old fashioned ipa either. Doesn't mean everyone that doesn't prefer it is wrong. Cheers

 

[couchsending]

I highly agree with most of what you're saying here. Unfortunately this is not limited to homebrewers. There are a lot of commercial breweries out there putting out what you described above. I love a good "NEIPA" but even something like Treehouse I can't really drink more than 2 of in one sitting. The character saturates the palate and they are sweet, as over in the TH we've been discussing beers with an FG near 1.020. Their beers are delicious though, and I can't fault them. It's more my taste.



That's another problem with the over-saturation of the market with this style. Most breweries can't manage a product that has more than a two week window that it's pleasurable to drink. It must be refrigerated at all times, and even then some have a tiny window. I don't think the average consumer is actually treating these beers correctly, and sometimes people say "WOW!" and give it 5 stars on untappd because of hype, not because it's a good beer.



I've tasted this in most beers heavily featuring late Citra in the past two years, even from good breweries. Examples from Equilibrium, Monkish, and Toppling Goliath. I used to be lucky enough to live right near Three Floyds when they were hot, and Zombie Dust never tasted anything like that. What's going on? Literally some of the worst beers I've had in my life are some of these IPAs with basically no bitterness and a ton of late citra, so it just tastes like a sweet, thick, oniony mess.

All this said, I'm not a "NEIPA" hater. Great examples are great and will always have a place on the shelf in my refrigerator. I do think the massive fad will die down, but that type of beer existing is probably here to stay.

I was referring to professional breweries not home brewers actually. The style was fueled by home brewers, who often times then opened their own breweries. Tree House beers all finish between 1.014 and 1.1016. At least the 6 or 7 beers I've degassed over the last two years. It's not just final gravity that makes them sweet, that has a lot of do with calcium content in the water as well, which is the IMHO the case with Treehouse. But yeah there are plenty of these beers that finish over 1.020 with no bitterness which I would agree is gross.

I haven't had a super oniony/garlic/BO Citra beer in a while but I would agree with you there was a few years there where Citra and Mosiac production ramped up so much that the quality was really bad and unless you had a great contract for a very specific picking window from a specific farm you had no idea what you were going to get. I've heard a lot of professional breweries speak to this. 2018 crop seems to be better? Just had some awesome Pseudo Sue and King Sue from TG that had no weird BO/Stank to them. I was fortunate enough to get an 11lb bag of hand selected 2108 Citra from one of the better hoppy beer producers in CA and it has no weird off flavors or aromas and it's actually Idaho grown Citra which I thought was interesting. I don't really believe it has much to do with how you use it hot side more so than the quality of the hops and how much of it you dry hop with. This style has pushed the dry hopping loads so far it's nuts. Vinnie talks about how they thought they were extreme using 2lb/bbl DH on Pliny now everyone is doing 4lb/bbl on a 5% Pale Ale.

 

[couchsending]

But who decided that those examples you gave as the best are everyone's preference? Is it possible that people actually prefer a sweet neipa over a bitter one hence why it's the best selling beer and not the other way around? If those examples you gave are so different from what everyone else is making and selling like wild fire what's your point? Pliny the elder might not be everyone's favorite old fashioned ipa either. Doesn't mean everyone that doesn't prefer it is wrong. Cheers

Those are the breweries that created the "style" or what people think this "style" is. That's who everyone has been trying to "copy" since this whole thing started. That's why I picked them.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Those are the people that created the style that everyone has been trying to "copy" since this whole thing started. That's why I picked them.

I've never had those examples. But from what you described there nothing like the current neipas that everyone loves so it seems there not copying them but instead just making beer that people want to buy. Crazy business model I know. It's possible the original style neipas you referenced could also be as popular worldwide as the current neipas but we will probably never know as they brew so little of it to keep the hype going few get to actually try it. Cheers

 

[lowtones84]

I haven't had a super oniony/garlic/BO Citra beer in a while but I would agree with you there was a few years there where Citra and Mosiac production ramped up so much that the quality was really bad and unless you had a great contract for a very specific picking window from a specific farm you had no idea what you were going to get. I've heard a lot of professional breweries speak to this. 2018 crop seems to be better? Just had some awesome Pseudo Sue and King Sue from TG that had no weird BO/Stank to them.

I picked up a hint in both versions of Sue, but very little. I think my palate is more sensitive to that flavor than some people. Once it warmed up a bit that was mostly gone, and I enjoyed both of those beers. The one that had quite a bit was Scorpius Morchella.

To me 1.016 is still a high FG, but my personal preference is toward dry beers anyhow.

 

[Dgallo]

I've never had those examples. But from what you described there nothing like the current neipas that everyone loves so it seems there not copying them but instead just making beer that people want to buy. Crazy business model I know. It's possible the original style neipas you referenced could also be as popular worldwide as the current neipas but we will probably never know as they brew so little of it to keep the hype going few get to actually try it. Cheers

Dude.... treehouse, Hill Farmstead,Trillium, and alchemist .... those are what everyone who has ever brewed this style of beer is trying to imitate. If you haven’t had a beer from then “you know nothing, John Snow”. No disrespect but it’s just the truth. They are the creators(more Hill and alchemist) and why everyone started making them.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Dude.... treehouse, Hill Farmstead,Trillium, and alchemist .... those are what everyone who has ever brewed this style of beer is trying to imitate. If you haven’t had a beer from then “you know nothing, John Snow”. No disrespect but it’s just the truth. They are the creators(more Hill and alchemist) and why everyone started making them.

You missed my point entirety.im well aware those examples are very good beers. Who cares about any of that. People love the current neipas the way they are which is apparently nothing like those examples every is trying to reproduce. If the trillium, farmstead etc don't taste anything like the neipas that sell so well and are so hated by few what's the point comparing them?

 

[Blazinlow86]

Actually that got me thinking anyone who's tried heady topper have a clone that's similar. I'd like to give it a try. Cheers

 

[NeoBrew]

You’re the type of person that frustrates me so much when it comes to this style. I understand you don’t like it and that’s cool and all but you have no idea how difficult it is to brew a trully quality example of this beer, just to mock it. I personally cannot stand clove-phenol producing belgians yeast that over power the flavor of the complex grains, but I don’t crap on the style because I know it takes skill to produce the right flavor for the style.

For NEIPAS, To take a hop and get a complex flavor from it by using different timing and temperatures to pull out bright flavors. With the correct combination of hops and proper ratio of each variety to be non conflicting. Also To manage the beer post fermentation so delicately to minimize any oxygen contact. If you aren’t able to get your hands on a fresh exemplary beer of the style or don’t like hops, then you’ll never get it.

It may be that I've never had a "good" version of this beer. I have no way of really knowing. This is the one I had recently that I am assuming is how they are supposed to taste. For sure it is the best one that I've ever had. My friend got it directly from the owner of the brewery and it was supposed to be extremely fresh. It had no off flavors that I could detect.

My problem with the style has nothing to do with the style itself or the people who enjoy it. And I can geek out as much as anybody on trying to perfect a difficult thing. My problem with the style is that it has taken over the taps everywhere I go, it doesn't seem to suit my palate, and most importantly, it is impossible to avoid buying one by accident. My biggest complaint is in fact that it wasn't given it's own style/name soon enough in it's evolution so that it is generally just called "IPA" on the menu. Servers at most restaurants and bars I go to seem to be quite clueless about the differences between a NEIPA, a west coast IPA, or certainly a more traditional English IPA. So, I do my best to educate them about what I'm looking for, but the only way I can seem to ensure any control is to ask for a sample first, which is generally a douchey thing to do if you are with a party of people who are just there for dinner. In my story above I had to work to convince the waitress (at an Old Chicago Restaurant) that what she brought me was in fact NOT a Two Hearted. I'd rather not have to work so hard to avoid these beers.

So again, I have no problem with the style existing, I have no problem with the people who enjoy it, and I have no problem with people who are striving to create that perfect beer. I just want to be able to get the beer I like, when I like it, without all the hassle of this style getting in my way.

 

[Blazinlow86]

It may be that I've never had a "good" version of this beer. I have no way of really knowing. This is the one I had recently that I am assuming is how they are supposed to taste. For sure it is the best one that I've ever had. My friend got it directly from the owner of the brewery and it was supposed to be extremely fresh. It had no off flavors that I could detect.

My problem with the style has nothing to do with the style itself or the people who enjoy it. And I can geek out as much as anybody on trying to perfect a difficult thing. My problem with the style is that it has taken over the taps everywhere I go, it doesn't seem to suit my palate, and most importantly, it is impossible to avoid buying one by accident. My biggest complaint is in fact that it wasn't given it's own style/name soon enough in it's evolution so that it is generally just called "IPA" on the menu. Servers at most restaurants and bars I go to seem to be quite clueless about the differences between a NEIPA, a west coast IPA, or certainly a more traditional English IPA. So, I do my best to educate them about what I'm looking for, but the only way I can seem to ensure any control is to ask for a sample first, which is generally a douchey thing to do if you are with a party of people who are just there for dinner. In my story above I had to work to convince the waitress (at an Old Chicago Restaurant) that what she brought me was in fact NOT a Two Hearted. I'd rather not have to work so hard to avoid these beers.

So again, I have no problem with the style existing, I have no problem with the people who enjoy it, and I have no problem with people who are striving to create that perfect beer. I just want to be able to get the beer I like, when I like it, without all the hassle of this style getting in my way.

You would think it would be pretty easy to train a server in a restaurant or bar that theres more than one type of IPA and to know what types they have on tap lol. I agree that would be annoying. At this point though I'd say it's a pretty safe bet if you order anything off a menu named IPA 90% of the time it's gonna be hazy. Cheers

 

[grampamark]

Here’s a slightly different twist on the problem of servers/bartenders not being aware of what, exactly, they are serving.

The low unemployment rate has caused a shortage of workers in low wage/entry level jobs in many parts of the country. There are a lot of places where anybody who is willing to work, show up on time, and pass a drug test can get a better job than food/beverage service. Bars and restaurants have to be willing to accept two out of three.

In the city where I live part time, almost every entry level or semi-skilled level employer is hiring, and at wages 40-50% above minimum wage. When there is no shortage of “real” jobs it’s hard to find committed, passionate people who are willing to work 30 hours a week for ten bucks an hour plus tips.

 

[couchsending]

I've never had those examples. But from what you described there nothing like the current neipas that everyone loves so it seems there not copying them but instead just making beer that people want to buy. Crazy business model I know. It's possible the original style neipas you referenced could also be as popular worldwide as the current neipas but we will probably never know as they brew so little of it to keep the hype going few get to actually try it. Cheers

What “current” NEIPAs are you referring to exactly? What is your “reference” beer?

These breweries I reference brew exactly the amount that their chosen business model allows for. Said breweries have no desire to produce above X amount as to them it would comprise the best product that they can make and they have no desire to go into debt or take on investors in such a volatile market. Great hoppy beer simply can’t be widely distributed successfully without a massive investment in packaging equipment that most breweries simply can’t afford.

You think these breweries keep production to a specific size just to maintain hype? Most often it’s because they’re actually intelligent business people who put the quality of their product over everything else.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Here’s a slightly different twist on the problem of servers/bartenders not being aware of what, exactly, they are serving.

The low unemployment rate has caused a shortage of workers in low wage/entry level jobs in many parts of the country. There are a lot of places where anybody who is willing to work, show up on time, and pass a drug test can get a better job than food/beverage service. Bars and restaurants have to be willing to accept two out of three.

In the city where I live part time, almost every entry level or semi-skilled level employer is hiring, and at wages 40-50% above minimum wage. When there is no shortage of “real” jobs it’s hard to find committed, passionate people who are willing to work 30 hours a week for ten bucks an hour plus tips.

I see what your saying but I wouldn't accept that answer. "Sorry sir because we only pay 10 per hour our servers can't be expected to remember which 1 of the 8 beers we have on tap arent hazy"... I'd say that's a bar to avoid. Cheers

 

[NeoBrew]

I see what your saying but I wouldn't accept that answer. "Sorry sir because we only pay 10 per hour our servers can't be expected to remember which 1 of the 8 beers we have on tap arent hazy"... I'd say that's a bar to avoid. Cheers

The Old Chicago chain actually has quite a few beers on tap, but your point is well taken. Here is their current tap list.

You would think it would be pretty easy to train a server in a restaurant or bar that theres more than one type of IPA and to know what types they have on tap lol. I agree that would be annoying. At this point though I'd say it's a pretty safe bet if you order anything off a menu named IPA 90% of the time it's gonna be hazy. Cheers

Sadly for me I'm a "craft beer dinosaur", I like west coast IPA's. I'm a man 2 1/2 behind the times. lol

 

[Blazinlow86]

The Old Chicago chain actually has quite a few beers on tap, but your point is well taken. Here is their current tap list.


Sadly for me I'm a "craft beer dinosaur", I like west coast IPA's. I'm a man 2 1/2 behind the times. lol

I also like west coast IPAs and pretty much most other styles. I also don't hate on hazy beers for no particular reasons beside and blame it on neckbeards or man buns or whatever other sillyness you want to believe made them the most popular style currently.That's not directed at you. Cheers

 

[grampamark]

I see what your saying but I wouldn't accept that answer. "Sorry sir because we only pay 10 per hour our servers can't be expected to remember which 1 of the 8 beers we have on tap arent hazy"... I'd say that's a bar to avoid. Cheers

Not to put too fine a point on it, but, nobody who owns a business, or manages a corporate-owned business, cares about what you think.

The reality is, in many parts of the country, that if there’s a warm body who’s willing to show up and pull a shift when a warm body is needed, that’s all that matters. Being able, and willing, to describe the differences between the various beers on tap is nice, but not necessary, in the overall scheme of things.

To those of us who really care about beer, knowledgeable staff might be a BFD. In the real world, this is what full employment looks like.

 

[WBB]

Take a look at the what are you drinking now thread. Go back 10 pages, how many are drinking hazy/NEIPA beers. It’s not a fad, it’s a “new” style, just like west coast was at one time.

I personally like them. Who cares if you don’t. You might like ribeyes, I don’t, I like filets. Again, who cares.

It’s a free country. You like what you like, I like what I like.

If a brewpub served all lagers, ok I’ll try one. Yeah it’s good. But I like IPAs (west coast, east coast, ne, se, mw, nw, etc.), so unless you have have topless hotties serving the lagers, I’ll be going somewhere else.

This is why places are serving 5/10 beers as NEIPAS, that’s what majority wants. Funny how they’re still in business. I don’t see OH or TH going out of business anytime soon.

 

[wepeeler]

Take a look at the what are you drinking now thread. Go back 10 pages, how many are drinking hazy/NEIPA beers. It’s not a fad, it’s a “new” style, just like west coast was at one time.

I personally like them. Who cares if you don’t. You might like ribeyes, I don’t, I like filets. Again, who cares.

It’s a free country. You like what you like, I like what I like.

If a brewpub served all lagers, ok I’ll try one. Yeah it’s good. But I like IPAs (west coast, east coast, ne, se, mw, nw, etc.), so unless you have have topless hotties serving the lagers, I’ll be going somewhere else.

This is why places are serving 5/10 beers as NEIPAS, that’s what majority wants. Funny how they’re still in business. I don’t see OH or TH going out of business anytime soon.

Can you please describe these "topless hotties" you speak of? Just because I'm sure my idea of a topless hottie is different than yours, which is also different than Joe Smoe's. Funny how this parallels the neipa discussion!

Thread solved. Topless hotties = neipas. Water chemistry definitely helps.

 

[Steven Barrett]

Fair enough. Lots of people don't like what's popular just for the sake of not liking what's popular. Everyone's doing it because that's what the large majority of people are currently buying and that's what pays the bills. I like neipas because I enjoy the taste. Not because they're popular or hazy. I also like old IPAs, lagers,stouts,saisons, wheats and pretty much all the others. Cheers

The term is “contrarian.” For example, when I was an angsty teen, I hated the Beatles because they were so universally adored... until I finally caved and listened to their music.

But the beauty of homebrew is you can make whatever you want.