Interested in an Electric Kettle Set Up? Come on in....

[kzimmer0817]

Regarding the following 2 photos from Spikebrewing:

***BIG Update***
Camco 02963 5500W 240V water heater element installed

Heater element screwed in with gasket

Would it not be quite easy to install a Kal-like electrical box to this? Perhaps like that of the DIYers who use a single gang box instead of the double. Would placing the metal plate of the enclosure between the gasket and the element (or between gasket and kettle) provide for a water tight enclosure?

Another question: Since I am interested in the 10 gallon kettle: Ben mentioned that he was considering making the 10 gallon kettle the 110/120V and using 220V in the 15+ gallon kettles. From what I've read on these forums, I have been under the impression that it's difficult to bring 6-7 gallons (pre-boil volumes for 5g BIAB batches) to a boil using the elements available at 120V. True, some guys are doing this with 2 elements connected to separate circuits, but I only want the simplicity of a single element/circuit.

Thanks,
Keith

 

[tre9er]

You will have a hard time boiling a 5g. batch (~6.5g boil) with a single 120v element, yes. I can attest to this. A 2000w LWD element would be your best bet, but it still would take 26 minutes from 160* to get to a boil...guess that's not horrible, but that's also at 95% efficiency which means you better insulate the kettle well, too.

Now, as a HLT, no problem. You're probably crushing grain and doing other things while heating strike-water anyways.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Couplers look good. Looking forward to a complete plug in play. I've got time to wait

 

[kzimmer0817]

I hate to keep beating the horse, but I'd like to restate the question that I asked three postings up. I'm hoping that knowledgeable folks who have built e-kettles will offer answers.

[Looking at the photo of the element installed into the fitting on the new Spikebrewing e-kettle] Would it not be quite easy to install a Kal-like electrical box to this? Perhaps like that of the DIYers who use a single gang box instead of the double. Would placing the metal plate of the enclosure between the gasket and the element (or between gasket and kettle) provide for a water tight enclosure?

I am about to either (1) build an e-kettle out of the keg I just cut or (2) purchase one of these from Spike Brewing. At first glance, and after reading thru Kal's description of his build, I don't see why it wouldn't work to place the metal cover plate between the element and the gasket in this above photo.

Impatiently, but respectfully,
Keith

 

[DustBow]

Would be better to place the element connections on the inside of the box and let the element face make the seal. Attach the back of the element to the box. That way if there is a leak it won't be inside the box with the connections

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/show-us-your-element-housings-pots-how-did-you-do-212079/index2.html#post2506114

Hole needs to be 1" conduit punch or 1 & 3/8" wide I believe

Also, take a look at ****yM's welding spuds and the silver soldering thread for the element connections to the kettle.
Good luck

 

[kzimmer0817]

Would be better to place the element connections on the inside of the box and let the element face make the seal. Attach the back of the element to the box. That way if there is a leak it won't be inside the box with the connections

1. Exactly how do you attach the back of the element to the box?

2. If the element is screwed into a fitting as Spikebrewing will be doing, I would think that the attachment of the box to the element must be movable. What position will the box be in when the element has been tightened.

3. Element position isn't as important if the element is slid thru an opening in the kettle with the o-ring and nut being on the inside of the kettle.

Thanks,
Keith

 

[kzimmer0817]

I may have answered my own question. Scroll down to postings #6 and #7 of the following thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/show-us-your-element-housings-pots-how-did-you-do-212079/

If I'm looking at these correctly, this is exactly what I asked in my previous messages. The photo by hatfieldenator in message #6 of the above thread shows an element being screwed into a coupling just like what Spikebrewing will be doing. Same thing by trigger in #7 except that he used a single box.

Cut a hole in the metal box just large enough to slip over the element mount. pass the element thru the hole in the box, put the gasket onto the element, then screw the element into the threaded coupling.

I'd appreciate any comments,
Keith

 

[BlackNotch]

Nice! Will there be an option on the coupling placement?

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Well guys it's not looking good for the welded electric coupler. After discussing it with a lawyer friend they advised against it because of the high risk. So it looks like the months of machining, our planning and your planning might be in vein. We would love to see this happen but UL ratings, insurance, etc make this project very unappealing. It only takes one person to get hurt and we're hurting.

Sorry guys....

 

[Bsquared]

What if I only want a 1"coupler welded on, I have a really big pump.

 

[kzimmer0817]

Well guys it's not looking good for the welded electric coupler. After discussing it with a lawyer friend they advised against it because of the high risk. So it looks like the months of machining, our planning and your planning might be in vein. We would love to see this happen but UL ratings, insurance, etc make this project very unappealing. It only takes one person to get hurt and we're hurting.

Sorry guys....

This is certainly bad news. So you can't simply offer the option of having a threaded coupler (that happens to have a little threaded screw hole in the side) welded to the side or back of the kettle for the brewer to use as s/he wishes?!?

What about an option of including a welded ferrule for the tri-clamp adapters.

Kal is somehow able to sell the element and mounting box in kit form as well as ready-made. It's rather obvious what this is intended for: installation thru the wall of a kettle full of liquid.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/heating-element-kits

Thanks for trying so hard.

Keith

 

[SpikeBrewing]

What if I only want a 1"coupler welded on, I have a really big pump.

(wink wink) This is usually how I operate but it seems the risk is really high for something like this.

This is certainly bad news. So you can't simply offer the option of having a threaded coupler (that happens to have a little threaded screw hole in the side) welded to the side or back of the kettle for the brewer to use as s/he wishes?!?

What about an option of including a welded ferrule for the tri-clamp adapters.

Kal is somehow able to sell the element and mounting box in kit form as well as ready-made. It's rather obvious what this is intended for: installation thru the wall of a kettle full of liquid.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/heating-element-kits

Thanks for trying so hard.

Keith

It's something we'll have to look into more. In this day and age you need to cover your ass so much when it comes to legal things like this. I'm just as disappointed! We've spent a lot of time and money into this project. We won't give up until all options are explored though.

 

[lotbfan]

can you do a kettle with just an extra hole in it, i may then choose to add any sort of innocent weldless fitting into it that i wish (i just dont have the tools to make my own hole)?

 

[BlackNotch]

That sucks for your business. What about putting the coupling on there, and not specifying what it's intended to be used for?

 

[DustBow]

Yeah, maybe have the options for the 1" coupling but take the grounding lug off there....I think the grounding lug would be kind of hard to talk around....

 

[SpikeBrewing]

can you do a kettle with just an extra hole in it, i may then choose to add any sort of innocent weldless fitting into it that i wish (i just dont have the tools to make my own hole)?

We could do this for you.

That sucks for your business. What about putting the coupling on there, and not specifying what it's intended to be used for?

I would love to do the wink wink routine but the risk is too high.

Yeah, maybe have the options for the 1" coupling but take the grounding lug off there....I think the grounding lug would be kind of hard to talk around....

Like I said before we're going to try and figure something out so we can offer this to you guys!

 

[uberg33k]

Well guys it's not looking good for the welded electric coupler. After discussing it with a lawyer friend they advised against it because of the high risk. So it looks like the months of machining, our planning and your planning might be in vein. We would love to see this happen but UL ratings, insurance, etc make this project very unappealing. It only takes one person to get hurt and we're hurting.

Sorry guys....

How much would the UL certification cost? Maybe a Kickstarter would be in order?

Would it be possible to shift the cost to the supplier of your kettles? Basically, give them the specs for the heating coupler and then have them produce it? I would think that would shift the liability to them, since no one (sane) sues Home Depot if they buy a faulty electrical outlet from them.

If all that doesn't work out, would you consider open sourcing your plan for the coupling?

 

[Nated2755]

That's to bad. I'm ready to pull the trigger on one of these. Was hoping they would be ready soon. I wonder how highgravitybrew gets around it?

 

[DustBow]

HighGravity is a much bigger operation overall than Spike is. And an e-kettle is a niche of a niche business, can't expect him to go overboard on this.

Seriously guys, it's really not that hard to mount an element. Weldless, dimple tool, weld a coupling, weld/solder a welding spud - lots of ways to do it that really aren't difficult. You just have to read up on them and this forum is a great place to do so.

 

[ODI3]

Could not just sell a kettle and offer custom work with a disclaimer that the custom work voids any guarantee or liability on the kettle?

 

[tre9er]

You know what would be tight? If there was an element that had the plastic housing on the rear portion threaded so a pvc cap could thread onto THAT, rather than over the whole mating to the kettle. I wonder if you could use a die to create threads in the existing plastic, or how thick that plastic even is? That would cover the electrical connections but keep leaks outside as well.

 

[cliffhanger1821]

So what's up with this? Can this not be an add-on for someone with, say, larger than normal pipes?
I'd be willing to silver solder a nut on the side of the coupling, but that isn't something I'm interested in doing for a 1 inch coupler. Pretty please?

 

[SpikeBrewing]

So what's up with this? Can this not be an add-on for someone with, say, larger than normal pipes?
I'd be willing to silver solder a nut on the side of the coupling, but that isn't something I'm interested in doing for a 1 inch coupler. Pretty please?

Right now it's on the back burner. Let us look into the liability side and we'll get back to you guys. Sorry :/

 

[lschiavo]

Would be better to place the element connections on the inside of the box and let the element face make the seal. Attach the back of the element to the box. That way if there is a leak it won't be inside the box with the connections

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/show-us-your-element-housings-pots-how-did-you-do-212079/index2.html#post2506114

Hole needs to be 1" conduit punch or 1 & 3/8" wide I believe

Also, take a look at ****yM's welding spuds and the silver soldering thread for the element connections to the kettle.
Good luck

Thanks for the link Dust. It's a hard point to sell but it's nice to see that someone gets it.

Good luck Spike. I hope you find a way to make it happen. If I were in your shoes, I would be on the horn with some element manufacturers.

 

[tre9er]

Anyone on whether or not a die could cut threads in the element housing? Anyone have a fried element they'd be willing to try it on?

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Anyone on whether or not a die could cut threads in the element housing? Anyone have a fried element they'd be willing to try it on?

The housing I'm picturing is probably .050" thick. That's way to thin to tap.

 

[Jbatman]

Any update on these?

 

[kzimmer0817]

I still wonder if you could get away with offering a kettle that has a 1" NPS half coupler or spud welded into a side opening for the purchaser to use as s/he sees fit.

Thanks,
Keith

 

[SpikeBrewing]

6/16/13: Bringing back this old thread... So we have 1" NPS (straight thread) couplers that will fit directly up with an element. No more jimmy rigging an element into a NPT tapered threaded coupler.

Pricing will be $35/coupler. That includes the half 1" NPS coupler which will be sanitary TIG welded into any size kettle we offer. Lead times for these custom kettles will be 1-2 weeks.

For inquires or purchasing please email [email protected].

 

[masloki]

Ah. Come on! I just ordered and drilled a bunch of kettles. Well, hopefully others will take advantage of the time savings.