Insurance Company Forbids Homebrewing!?

[Thorsbrew]

I dont usually boil 5 gallons of pasta for an hour do you? 90% of home brewers make more than 2.5 gallons at a time... the policy isnt going to go into specifics...

Specifics? It was an analogy.

Ok sure you dont boil for that long but it was just an example. Doesnt change the fact that that is what a vent hood is for...

Until we know what the wording is the only thing i've heard so far that makes any sense (as many of the other examples can be compared to any number of cooking related items) is the propane. In which case that should apply to bbq's too, but only homebrewing was mentioned so again, not seeing the sense.

I can boil 5 gallon batches of extract on my gas stove in the kitchen. In fact I may do that tomorrow since it is to cold to run the garden hose to the garage to brew... it is an extract kit that was free so I can get away with partially covering the kettle to bring it to a full boil! I really need to bury a water line to the garage...

You can? wow. I dont know how much more power a gas stove has but my electric stove took like 1.5-2 hours (if i remember correctly) to bring ~4 gallons of water to a boil while my propane burner took 20 or 30 minutes.
Which i suppose means its technically possible but boy does it take a lot longer.

 

[augiedoggy]

Specifics? It was an analogy.

Ok sure you dont boil for that long but it was just an example. Doesnt change the fact that that is what a vent hood is for...

Until we know what the wording is the only thing i've heard so far that makes any sense (as many of the other examples can be compared to any number of cooking related items) is the propane. In which case that should apply to bbq's too, but only homebrewing was mentioned so again, not seeing the sense.

It has everything to do with it though and why your analogy is comparing apples to oranges though dont you think? When you boil a large amount of liauid as vigorously as you would for that long, the exhaust fan (If its even an outside vented one because many are just a metal filter that recirculates) wont be able to catch it all and the condensation builds up all over the walls..

I used to manage and do all the maintenance on an apartment building along with some houses and Ive seen the mess it can make even when someone just happens to like to do a lot of cooking that requires boiling for long periods.

Many apartment building have rules against things like even charcoal grills (or thier own grills at all) outside or having a satellite dish because its unsightly... Those of use who dont have these restrictions think its horrible but its just a tradeoff to letting someone else own,manage and maintain the property which they are renting and can walk away from.

Remember when a person could legally ride in the back of a pickup? There are a lot of neighborhoods were even if you OWN your house you are not allowed to do what you want with it... I cant build a pole barn even though I have a large double lot. On some streets you have to use concrete and not blacktop to pave your driveway or choose your house and roofing color from a predetermined group of colors. In the city next to me its illegal to hang your clothes on a clothesline to dry because people complained and said it was unsightly... It sad but its what this country and world is coming too Because its usually the intolerant narrow minded, snobs or people with money that make these rules happen.

The bottom line here is the insurance company made the rules for a reason... The most likely reason is homebrewing has already cost them enough loses in claims for them to change the policy... That or someone complained enough about the smell that the owner had them add it. Many peoples wives wont let them brew inside for the same reasons.

 

[Thorsbrew]

It has everything to do with it though and why your analogy is comparing apples to oranges though dont you think? When you boil a large amount of liauid as vigorously as you would for that long, the exhaust fan (If its even an outside vented one because many are just a metal filter that recirculates) wont be able to catch it all and the condensation builds up all over the walls..

I used to manage and do all the maintenance on an apartment building along with some houses and Ive seen the mess it can make even when someone just happens to like to do a lot of cooking that requires boiling for long periods.

Many apartment building have rules against things like even charcoal grills (or thier own grills at all) outside or having a satellite dish because its unsightly... Those of use who dont have these restrictions think its horrible but its just a tradeoff to letting someone else own,manage and maintain the property which they are renting and can walk away from.

Remember when a person could legally ride in the back of a pickup? There are a lot of neighborhoods were even if you OWN your house you are not allowed to do what you want with it... I cant build a pole barn even though I have a large double lot. On some streets you have to use concrete and not blacktop to pave your driveway or choose your house and roofing color from a predetermined group of colors. In the city next to me its illegal to hang your clothes on a clothesline to dry because people complained and said it was unsightly... It sad but its what this country and world is coming too Because its usually the intolerant narrow minded, snobs or people with money that make these rules happen.

The bottom line here is the insurance company made the rules for a reason... The most likely reason is homebrewing has already cost them enough loses in claims for them to change the policy... That or someone complained enough about the smell that the owner had them add it. Many peoples wives wont let them brew inside for the same reasons.

Ok so you've made a case for absurdity. I'll stick to my original idea (that i'd do at least) as others have mentioned too...stick to small stove top batches and they'll be none the wiser.

 

[augiedoggy]

Ok so you've made a case for absurdity. I'll stick to my original idea (that i'd do at least) as others have mentioned too...stick to small stove top batches and they'll be none the wiser.

Oh I agree that if he just made it on the stove there wouldnt be an issue. In fact I wonder how it even got brought up to be an issue? was the OP trying to use the 208v plug in the laundry room to brew with electric? Or did he approach the landlord with some sort of request for home brewing or did he just stink the place up enough where a neighbor is complaining?

 

[Texconsinite]

If it's not in your lease, then it doesn't matter what your landlord's insurance says. You didn't sign a contract with their insurance company, you entered a rental agreement with the landlord. If it's not in the rental agreement, I wouldn't change anything I'm doing.

 

[SFBrewer]

To address all the speculation, my situation is fairly specific. I have access to a legally unusable apartment (for tax reasons) which is a workshop, storage and "tradesman bathroom" for the building as well as my modest brew space. Never a problem or concern prior. This situation came out of the property owner changing insurance companies. They sent an inspector out who asked to see the space. Saw the gear, had a discussion about it, to which he replied that shouldn't be a problem at all. That's where this all went south. Hoping to get a copy of the policy with the exclusion language to review this week.

 

[BudBernerBrewer]

welcome to the communist republic of california, it stars there and then spreads. like smoking bans, ect. tex is on to something. if it isn't in the lease it's unenforceable. i managed apts up the road in the wine country. 30 day notice to change anything if month to month, which usually is in cali because of professional scam artists that take months to remove if leased. notice for others to not let inspectors see your gear if you rent...i feel for ya buddy

 

[SFBrewer]

welcome to the communist republic of california, it stars there and then spreads. like smoking bans, ect. tex is on to something. if it isn't in the lease it's unenforceable. i managed apts up the road in the wine country. 30 day notice to change anything if month to month, which usually is in cali because of professional scam artists that take months to remove if leased. notice for others to not let inspectors see your gear if you rent...i feel for ya buddy

On some level, yes the lease agreement is the guiding star here. However, I am an employee of the building, not a tenant. Therefore, I have limited rights. Further, I have to enforce the wills/desires of the owners to the best of my ability as unless I want to lose my home and displace my family. Not to mention the rather unappealing job hunt.

Regardless, I don't think that banning a legally permitted practice is enforceable. My suspicion is that if for some reason it actually went to court for any reason the insurance company policy would be declared inapplicable/unreasonable. I already spoke with my renters insurance company and my liability insurance covers any damage that I or my stuff could cause. Doesn't seem to matter to the property insurance company.

Sadly, it's not a battle I can fight even if I wanted to, my resources are limited.

Still believe the best course is to play find the loophole for now.

 

[kh54s10]

I see the word "banned". An insurance company cannot ban anything. They can however refuse to pay out on a claim for damage due to homebrewing. Cancel a policy to save themselves from claims. Etc.

If a person brews in the apartment building and no one is around to see it, has anything been brewed?

 

[SFBrewer]

Yes, banned was poor choice of words.

Not sure about the brewing koan...perhaps I'll ask that guy waving one hand in the air.

 

[Grinnan5150]

I'm a property insurance adjuster and have never seen one property policy that contains any exclusions or conditions regarding homebrewing. It may be the company's underwriting practice to not write a policy if there are certain brewing operations on the premises but again, I would ask to see that in writing.

I can understand their concern if people are on their balconies with propane burners, which is probably what they are referring to. Brewing in an apartment on a stove top is no different than cooking and I don't think a ban on that would be enforceable.

 

[McKnuckle]

It seems fairly straightforward. As noted, it's not a ban. It's a statement by the insurer that they will not cover damages caused by homebrewing. So it's really up to the property owner to either allow or disallow brewing on site. If s/he allows it, that's at his/her own risk. If s/he forbids it, you - as an employed property manager - are expected to both comply and enforce. Which most definitely would suck.

So the way I see it, have a chat with the property owner and get their take on the matter. They'll either say "Sure, it's okay, just be careful" or "Sorry man, I just can't risk it with this new insurance policy."

 

[kh54s10]

I can understand their concern if people are on their balconies with propane burners, which is probably what they are referring to. Brewing in an apartment on a stove top is no different than cooking and I don't think a ban on that would be enforceable.

Unless the tenant make a deal out of it, no one really would know.

As to the vent hood, my big burner is to the front of my range. It sticks out from under my microwave that has a vent. I have to open the door with the vent fan going. It captures maybe half of the steam. By the time I am finished there is moisture on the cabinet doors above and on the ceiling. For this reason I limit the brewing I do inside. I could easily see a significant amount of damage done by a lot of inside brewing.

 

[applescrap]

It seems fairly straightforward. As noted, it's not a ban. It's a statement by the insurer that they will not cover damages caused by homebrewing. So it's really up to the property owner to either allow or disallow brewing on site. If s/he allows it, that's at his/her own risk. If s/he forbids it, you - as an employed property manager - are expected to both comply and enforce. Which most definitely would suck.

So the way I see it, have a chat with the property owner and get their take on the matter. They'll either say "Sure, it's okay, just be careful" or "Sorry man, I just can't risk it with this new insurance policy."

This.

And maybe strike a happy medium. Is there someplace you can Brew Outdoors? Maybe he will allow you to brew in a safe space once a month or something like that. One thing I have learned from my brother is that any agreement you guys can come too as in catch more flies with honey is going to be your best bet.

 

[GHBWNY]

"My first guess would be it's related to the use of burners. Lots of apartment buildings only allow propane grills on their decks, others ban grilling altogether due to the fire risk."



Then the prohibition should be against open-flame propane burners inside the building, not against brewing beer. I sometimes do it on my stovetop --- how is that any different than cooking?

 

[madscientist451]

You can't enforce what you don't see. Officially, there isn't any brewing going on, as far as you know. If you friends tell you about it, politely inform them that as the manager, you have to enforce the rules, so they should stop telling you about their brewing adventures. If they insist on telling you about brewing in their apartments, inform them that you will confiscate all their homebrew until they stop talking about it. Then have a party and invite them over.