Installing ball lock gas post onto a sanke keg?

[Golddiggie]

Pinging out there to see if anyone has installed a ball lock gas post into the top of a sanke keg before. If so, how did you go about it?

I ask because I ferment in sanke kegs and transfer via CO2 push. Right now I'm using the orange carboy cap, but that can be a PITA to get on sometimes (you have to heat it to get it to go on fairly easily). I'm thinking that if I could get ball lock gas posts in the top of the fermenters, I could then just use the airlock hole in the bung to feed my stainless racking cane in, to get the brew/fermentation out of the keg. This would make it easier both to rack my beers to keg and other fermentations to other kegs as they need it.

Right now, I'm thinking that I should be able to drill and tap the hole in the top, and then simply install the fitting so that I can push CO2 in. I don't see the need for a gas dip tube, since this is not going to be for serving and such. Basically, like you would do on a Blichmann beer gun to get it adapted to use QD's instead of threaded fittings for the gas side.

 

[bf514921]

i don't remember where i read it but i believe 2.5 inch sanitary fittings fit on the sanke, with a little work, but thats single port not multiple, but if you could mod that with a racking cane, also brewers hardware makes something that might give you something to work with.
Brewers Hardware Sanke Keg Fermenter Kit with Thermowell

 

[Golddiggie]

I've got the hardware from Brewers Hardware already, it doesn't have any allocation for CO2 IN... Hence my desire to install gas ball lock posts on the sanke kegs. I believe the ball lock posts (inner part) connect to 1/4" MFL threads. So I really only need to find the actual thread of that fitting (I have one right here, just need to figure out what the other end thread actually is) then I could just drill/tap holes in the top of the kegs, install that fitting, and then install gas ball locks to that. Or I could just connect a swivel nut line to it. Either way will be easier than what I've been doing.

 

[bf514921]

ok now i get it, i think you have the right idea, drill and tape for a post wo you can have a gas disconnect, you know i have 2 old poney sanke kegs i have been wondering what to do with, might make good fermentors.

 

[Golddiggie]

I have two tall pony kegs that make GREAT fermenters. I also have a pair of 25L kegs, six 1/6 barrel kegs, and a cute 3.875 gallon sanke keg that are all fermenters (for one stage or another, or both)... I started the 2011 mead batches in two of the 1/6 barrel kegs, racking them today (CO2 push :rockin. I plan on starting another batch this week, maybe even a second before the weekend is out. When I start these really depends on if I can get the posts installed before the end of the weekend, or if it's going to take longer. If I'm only a few days out from getting this done, I'll hold those batches until I get the kegs modified. I'm also planning on modifying all my beer fermenters (the larger kegs)...

I also have a short pony keg that I'm not in a rush to use as a fermenter. I have a 50L (13.3 gallon) keg that is going to be my first fermenter when I start making 10 gallon batches (for me, that will probably mean 11-12 gallons in primary).

BTW, it's 'drill and tap' not tape...

 

[bf514921]

yeah, i got in a hurry, sometimes i my hands don't type fast enough

 

[Golddiggie]

Bad hand/brain coordination??

 

[Golddiggie]

I'll need to check with some other people I know, but it looks like the fitting I can use to get the ball lock gas post onto the keg is 1/4" MFL to 1/4" NPT... So, if I drill and tap for the 1/4" NPT thread, the fitting will go in. Or I could just install some threaded gas shutoff valves in the hole and not worry too much. I like the simplicity of the QD option, since I won't need to use the plastic washers on the gas line, but whichever will do the job. Maybe even both.

Once I have the first one installed, I'll post up some pictures. Maybe even start a new thread for it...

 

[JuanMoore]

IMO the easiest option is using a sanke coupler. That's what I do, and it works great. Used couplers are cheap and relatively easy to find. I bought several on the classifieds here for $5 each. It also allows you to use the kegs as serving vessels which can be handy, and makes attaching a spunding valve easy if you ever want to go that route.

 

[Golddiggie]

Totally useless since I've removed the spears from the kegs and have zero interest in ever installing one again. I have a coupler by the way, which I use to release the pressure and get rid of what remains in kegs as I purchase them. It's far easier to do it that way than the old screwdriver to the center of the valve (with towel covering it of course)...

This is so that I can ferment in the kegs, then rack either to my serving kegs (2.5 and 3 gallon corny kegs) or move to another keg for aging/next steps. Such as for the batches of mead I'm currently fermenting. Also, I use a stainless steel racking cane to go into the kegs to get the fermentation out. The other end is either connected to a ball lock QD, and post (when filling my serving kegs), or sent to the bottom of the receiving sanke keg (when just racking).

 

[Stevo2569]

I had the same problem a while back.Sanke Keg BallLock
Got the fittings but have not installed them yet. Hopefully in the next week or two I'll probably get them TIG'd on cause my experiments with my MIG and Silver Soldering do not seem to be good enough. Weldless threaded in was another option but the Tap size is expensive and thought it to be near impossible to get an o-ring and nut(also rare)on the other side.

 

[Golddiggie]

Since I'm only looking to push a few psi through this, I don't think the nut and o-ring will be needed. I'll apply Teflon tape to the fitting that goes into the threaded hole, and then wrench it down tight. I plan on testing with one of my 1/6bbl kegs first, since I'll not have any issue not using that one, or getting a plug welded in it eventually, if things go sideways. Or maybe just get a nut welded over the hole, and install the fitting there. Although, I would need to locate a 1/4" NPT stainless steel nut for that. IMO, easier to go no-weld.

I'm also not looking to get anything from chi co. due to a previous experience with them (seems to be more the norm than not). Fortunately, I do know of someone that could have all the parts needed, on hand, to alter at least a couple of my kegs. I want to get one of my tall pony kegs done, plus a few others first. Then I'll get the hardware needed to do the balance as I have time.

I just checked the material thickness on my keg mash tun (at the cut opening)... It's enough to have about two full threads cut into it, for the fitting to go into. On the pony kegs, there's a shoulder that is on an angle before it gets to the opening. I could install the fitting there, and possibly get a wrench behind it if needed (for the nut). I still think that there's enough material to securely hold the fitting in place, under the conditions I'll place it.

One thing for certain. Once this is done, chances of these kegs ever being used to dispense brew is pretty much over. :rockin:

 

[Stevo2569]

Haven't ordered from chi. Ended up getting mine from Midwest. Post any updates would love to see it done. I'll do the same.

 

[zazbnf]

I believe the ball lock posts (inner part) connect to 1/4" MFL threads.

I believe the inner ball lock post threads are actually 19/32"-18 so you will probably need an adapter to go from 1/4 mfl to 19/32"-18 noticed you don't want to use CHI Company but Northern Brewer has them.

Adapter for Cornelius Keg Posts 1/4" FFL x 19/32"-18 : Northern Brewer

 

[Golddiggie]

Saw those on the other thread (listed earlier)... Got them in my cart now... I plan on ordering everything before too long into tomorrow for this. That way I can get at least a keg, or three, done over the coming weekend.

The hardest part could be cleaning the keg out after the drilling and tapping.

 

[JuanMoore]

Ball lock posts come in several different thread sizes, so make sure you have (or buy) 19/32"-18 posts if you plan to use the adapter linked above. The 19/32"-18 only fit pin locks, Spartans, and Super Champions. There is a range of different thread sizes for the posts of other keg types, including 9/16"-18, 5/8"-18, 11/16"-18, and 3/4"-18.

 

[Golddiggie]

Ball lock posts come in several different thread sizes, so make sure you have (or buy) 19/32"-18 posts if you plan to use the adapter linked above. The 19/32"-18 only fit pin locks, Spartans, and Super Champions. There is a range of different thread sizes for the posts of other keg types, including 9/16"-18, 5/8"-18, 11/16"-18, and 3/4"-18.

Wow, two posts that really don't help me out any. I already know what adapter I need to mate to the post I've ordered (it's internal threads). I'm going with one of the 1/4" NPT to 19/32-18 parts so that I just install that into the sanke top, and the post goes to it.

I plan to start with the threaded hole for the bottom piece. Later, IF I need to, I might investigate having the lower fitting TiG welded to the keg.

Right now, I have 8 Corny posts coming. I plan on getting a few more in the coming weeks/months so that all my sanke kegs will be fitted with at least gas posts. There is a chance, at some point, that I'll also install liquid posts on some to make transfers easier. But that's a far lesser need (for me) than the gas posts.

Oh, and I'm intending to only push a few PSI in through these posts right now. If I get them welded in place, then I could go a bit higher. I'll worry about that later though.

I'll try to take some good pictures of the process this weekend and post them up.

 

[bf514921]

that would be cool, i would love to see it, sounds like a really good idea

 

[zazbnf]

Wow, two posts that really don't help me out any. I already know what adapter I need to mate to the post I've ordered (it's internal threads). I'm going with one of the 1/4" NPT to 19/32-18 parts so that I just install that into the sanke top, and the post goes to it.

I could care less if my post was helpful to you or not. (It's really not all about you.) I posted it so the next person that thought this might be something they wanted to try wouldn't think you knew what you were talking about when you posted not once but twice that you thought the fitting was 1/4 ffl.

as for the post by JuanMoore regarding different post thread sizes, I found it most informative.

 

[Stevo2569]

I'll post this for anyone interested.
KEG THREAD SIZES

 

[bja]

It all seems like a lot of unnecessary work and expense when all you need to do is drill a 1/2" hole and pop a valve stem for a tire in there. Then just put a tire chuck on your co2 line. Probably cost about 50 cents per keg and a couple minutes to drill a hole.

 

[Golddiggie]

It all seems like a lot of unnecessary work and expense when all you need to do is drill a 1/2" hole and pop a valve stem for a tire in there. Then just put a tire chuck on your co2 line. Probably cost about 50 cents per keg and a couple minutes to drill a hole.

Actually, the valve stem's your talking about are ~$4 each (Amazon.com: Milton S413 1 1/4 Tire Valve: Automotive) plus shipping (if you're not a Prime member). Then there's the fact that I'd have to have a dedicated gas line for this (with the filler fitting on the end) or somehow adapt the standard tire filler compressor attachment to go to my CO2 line. IMO, a poor design. Not to mention that the per unit cost isn't what you think it would be. Top that off with the fact that I have the drill size I need for making the 1/4" NPT threaded hole. I'd need to purchase the 1/2" bit (or whatever size the stem needs). Then how do we even know IF the tire stem is food/beverage safe? We don't (or it isn't, I lean towards it not being rated safe). IMO, having black car tire valve stems sticking out of a keg is just ugly and looks like a hick did it. With the gas post, it will look more professional. Plus, I won't need to make any additional gas lines since I have ones with the 1/4" MFL swivel nuts needed to connect my gas QD's (all my ball lock QD's are mfl).

Also, drill time will be the same either way. The only difference is time to actually tap the hole. Even there, I don't think it will take too long, since I could use my cordless drill on low, or the ratcheting tap holder I have coming (will get more use than just this project).

If you want to install the tire valve stems in your kegs, go right ahead. You won't see them on any of my fermenters.

 

[Golddiggie]

zazbnf, I'm not going to get into it with you, it's simply not worth my time. IF you had bothered to read what was already posted, you would have seen this information was already covered. I had already selected the post, since I already had a source for the inner fittings. I didn't just randomly pick items.

 

[Bobby_M]

Nothing constuctive to add but why is there so much petty bickering going on? Everyone drinking ****** wine tonight?

 

[Golddiggie]

Nothing constuctive to add but why is there so much petty bickering going on? Everyone drinking ****** wine tonight?

Not over here... Just tired of people posting what's already been posted (more than a few minutes earlier) or having an attitude when I point out how they're posting something useless, since it's already been covered. Or a really ghetto version that won't even come close to what I'm talking about. Sorry, but tire valve stems, IMO, have no place that close to my fermenting beer/mead/other. They belong on my wheels.

I almost have everything I need to do this, with the final items arriving tomorrow. Got the posts from Keg Connection for <$8 each. They might even be carrying the 1/4" NPT to 19/32"-18 fittings soon, so the cost per post install could drop a few dollars...

Personally, I'm not looking to do this super-cheap. I'm looking to do it RIGHT. I want this to last for a long time, without issue. Which is one of the reasons I'm leaving TiG welding the bottom fittings into the keg open for future exploration. But, if these do the job (I'm tasking them with), without any leaks, then I'll leave them as is.

 

[Stevo2569]

Nothing constuctive to add but why is there so much petty bickering going on? Everyone drinking ****** wine tonight?

****** wine? Is that what my wife's been drinking? I'm going to dump that Sh!t right now.

 

[bf514921]

i am very curious how this works out for you Golddiggige, and pictures, i am kinda interested in mybe trying to do closed permentation. good luck on the morrow

 

[Golddiggie]

i am very curious how this works out for you Golddiggige, and pictures, i am kinda interested in mybe trying to do closed permentation. good luck on the morrow

Do you mean closed fermentation?

IMO, having the gas post on/in the keg opens up other possibilities too. I'm not yet sure if this same hardware selection will work with a liquid dip tube too, but I should know this weekend.

 

[bja]

It sounds like you knew how you were going to do this before you started this thread. So why did you even bother posting?

BTW, I can go to the local tire shop and buy valve stems for 50 cents each.

The rest of this will be useless information to you Golddiggie, so you'll want to ignore it.

If it needs to be pretty, you can buy these from your local auto parts store for $2 each:

If you're concerned about the rubber gasket not being "food safe" even though it should never come in contact with the beer, you can replace it with a silicon o-ring.

Adapting an air chuck to your co2 line would be a matter of one brass fitting.

 

[Dert]

BJA,

I was thinking of these as well:

Mine are brass and could be used with silicon o rings as well.