Ingredient Prices?

[onipar]

I'm very new to brewing, and I was just wondering if there is much "wiggle room" in terms of finding ingredients at different prices.

I've only been to my LHBS once (not to mention I'm only into my first batch of beer), but I got a decent idea of their prices. The cans of malt extract ranged from $18-$30 (along those lines), and then they had these small "kits" that they put together themselves that ranged from $25-$50. Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure what comes with he kit, nor did I get separate prices on grains and hops.

I looked online at some outlets and they seemed comparable in pricing.

I guess what I'm asking is if you "bargain hunt" for the best prices on ingredients or not. Along those lines, do ingredient prices pretty much range about the same no matter where you buy?

 

[passedpawn]

Buying kits online are probably your best bet. I believe most of them come with DME (dried malt extract), which is equivalent but weigh than LME (liquid). I've never bought a kit, so I hope others chime in here (I brew with grain).

Here are two places with great web sites and an extensive collection of "recipes' that you can order. They both have fixed shipping costs, so ordering more than 1 kit at a time is the best way to reduce your cost.

www.northernbrewer.com
www.brewmasterswarehouse.com

Nothern Brewer has an excellent, free, paper catalog. Make sure you sign up for that. Loads more online suppliers, and I'm sure the posts below will contain some of those. I personally recommend the ones above as I've used both.

Good Luck!

 

[Swib]

I had success finding better prices on line for malt extracts, other basics, and equipment (not carboys though). I also lived in an Chicago at the time, so that could be why LHBS was more expensive.
I've now moved and also switched to all grain brewing. I'm lucky that in my area they do group grain buys, the price of a 55lb sack is a lot less than what you'd pay at a LHBS.

 

[onipar]

Great! Thanks, Passedpawn and Swib.

Yeah, I still have my first batch fermenting, so it'll be a while before I go all grain. I want to do a few batches of extract brews using hops and specialty grains, and then after that a couple brews with mini-mash. I'll eventually go AG, but I have a lot to learn first.

I'll definitely sign up for that catalog. Thanks again.

 

[barrooze]

The catalogs are great. Here are the four I've found:

Midwest Supplies - http://www.midwestsupplies.com/comments/request
More Beer! - http://morebeer.com/content/catalog_request
Northern Brewer - http://www.northernbrewer.com/catalog-request/
Williams Brewing - http://www.williamsbrewing.com/FreeCatalogRequest.aspx

Also, the kits that the LHBS, online and B&M, are likely going to be just fine. I've brewed many kits from my LHBS, Midwest Supplies, and Austin Homebrew Supply and have drank quite a few from Northern Brewer. All delicious. There's many, many online vendors. Decide what type/style of beer you want to make and look take a look at the Vendor List on this forum. Also, peruse the catalogs. You'll start salivating reading the descriptions of their kits.

Also, keep in mind that you can't always compare two different kits from two different vendors on a price basis. They're two different kits with two different sets of hops, malts, yeasts, extracts, etc. Just read the descriptions and get whatever sounds tastiest. Picking up a copy of Brewing Classic Styles could also be helpful for you. You can put together your own kits using the recipes in that book, which is geared for the extract brewer. I highly recommend it.

Best of luck!

EDIT: As an addendum, I always look around to see who has the best prices for the recipe I'll be making. If the LHBS isn't too far over the cheapest online vendor, I will go to them, just to help ensure they're going to be there to help others get into this awesome hobby and for when I need that pack of dry yeast unexpectedly.

 

[bgburdman9]

Over the past year I have started buying most of my ingredients in bulk to save money. Once you progress to partial mash or all grain you can buy bulk grains and pay only about 60-75 cents/lb of 2 row, get hops for less than a dollar/ounce for most varieties, and when using certain dry yeast they can be had for less than $2 per packet. I can brew a beer such as biermunchers centennial blonde for about $11.

 

[bob1852]

Check out austinhomebrew.com, especially if you bulk buy.

They have free shipping for orders over $100 - including bulk items that most companies won't ship for that prices (50lb grain sacks, mills, etc.)

 

[onipar]

Thanks, everybody. I'm bookmarking all the online venders now. And I like the idea of picking a variety first and then checking the prices for that kit at different places.

From the look of it so far, it seems like brewing extract is more expensive than AG because I'll have to buy ingredients a little at a time for each brew, but I guess that's to be expected.

Thanks again.

 

[broadbill]

Thanks, everybody. I'm bookmarking all the online venders now. And I like the idea of picking a variety first and then checking the prices for that kit at different places.

From the look of it so far, it seems like brewing extract is more expensive than AG because I'll have to buy ingredients a little at a time for each brew, but I guess that's to be expected.

Thanks again.

FWIW, you can also buy extract (DME/LME) in bulk as well. Many of the LHBS I've been to buy in bulk and repackage for retail sale. If you are planning on doing a few batches you may want to look into that.

Extract brewing is more expensive than AG just because the DME/LME is a more expensive product...that's all. It's analogous for to making a pie from scratch from $2.00 worth of ingredients versus buying a pie for $5.00. Convenience costs money.

As for kits, check out the vendor section of this website. Many times vendors have sales/specials on their kits.

 

[kapbrew13]

I had success finding better prices on line for malt extracts, other basics, and equipment (not carboys though). I also lived in an Chicago at the time, so that could be why LHBS was more expensive.
I've now moved and also switched to all grain brewing. I'm lucky that in my area they do group grain buys, the price of a 55lb sack is a lot less than what you'd pay at a LHBS.

I second the grain group buys. I'll end up paying $0.55 lb compared to $2.35 lb.
BIAB is an easy cheaper way to get into all grain brewing.

 

[BrewThruYou]

I've only been to my LHBS once (not to mention I'm only into my first batch of beer), but I got a decent idea of their prices. The cans of malt extract ranged from $18-$30 (along those lines), and then they had these small "kits" that they put together themselves that ranged from $25-$50. Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure what comes with he kit, nor did I get separate prices on grains and hops.

Was the LHBS in Bethlehem?

If so, those kits contain pretty much everything you need - malt extract, hops, yeast, muslin bags, and priming sugar. I think I'm getting everything. The advantage of these over the cans of DME is that it's better quality stuff. Sometimes, the cans are prehopped and have crappy DME and old yeast.

I've done 3 of those kits - bavarian hefeweizen x 2 and an American IPA. They gave me fresh White Labs yeast from the fridge (it's not in the box) and 1oz hop bags from the fridge (also not in the box when it's on the shelf). But the hops and yeast are included in the price. The hefeweizens turned out great. The IPA was a disappointment...not nearly enough hops. The IPA kit also had some speciality grains to steep.

I find that yeast prices are pretty much similar everywhere. Seems like $7 for liquid yeast wherever you go and $3 or $4 for US04 or US05 and like $1.50 or $1.75 for Nottingham dry yeast.

I do all grain batches now, so I'm not sure if online is cheaper than LHBS for DME or LME. I'd imagine it is. Online is a lot cheaper for hops. I only buy hops from my LHBS if I'm in a pinch and need them ASAP. Otherwise, I'll order them online for 1/3 of the price.

I would recommend those kits. On my first few batches, they were a great help with the printed instructions.

 

[onipar]

Thanks, BrewThruYou.

Yes, we did go to the LHBS in Bethlehem. It's like 45 minutes away, but it's also the closest one. That's partly why I was asking about prices, because we probably won' be making that drive again until bottling day on our first batch.

Thanks for the info on their kits. That actually helps a lot knowing that the yeast and bags come with it, because the kits I've been looking at online seem to require separate purchase of those things. Also, when I consider shipping, I think the kits might come out to be about the same, if not better at the LHBS.

Couple questions:

Do the kits from the Bethlehem store come exclusively with DME? I know you mentioned the quality is better than the cans, so I was wondering what it is you get with the kit.

Also, you mentioned that hops are much cheaper online in bulk. Is it advisable to buy all the ingredients separately when doing extract brews (with specialty grains and hops) rather than getting the kit, or is that really just when you get into AG?

I can't wait to start AG, but as I read more about it, I know I need to take my time getting to that point. Not only do i feel like I should get the technique down with extract brews, but it's becoming pretty obvious to me that brewing AG requires a hefty increase in equipment.

I guess that's the double-edged sword part of this for me. I can save money on ingredients by buying bulk grain, but to do that I first need to spend a lot of extra cash on equipment.

I'll get there. Every time I see pictures of AG brewing I get impatient and want to do it. :rockin:

Anyway, thanks again for all the help. I'm leaning towards just picking up those kits at the LHBS since the prices seemed comparable, especially considering they come with everything you need.

 

[kapbrew13]

Thanks, BrewThruYou.

Yes, we did go to the LHBS in Bethlehem. It's like 45 minutes away, but it's also the closest one. That's partly why I was asking about prices, because we probably won' be making that drive again until bottling day on our first batch.

Thanks for the info on their kits. That actually helps a lot knowing that the yeast and bags come with it, because the kits I've been looking at online seem to require separate purchase of those things. Also, when I consider shipping, I think the kits might come out to be about the same, if not better at the LHBS.

Couple questions:

Do the kits from the Bethlehem store come exclusively with DME? I know you mentioned the quality is better than the cans, so I was wondering what it is you get with the kit.

Also, you mentioned that hops are much cheaper online in bulk. Is it advisable to buy all the ingredients separately when doing extract brews (with specialty grains and hops) rather than getting the kit, or is that really just when you get into AG?

I can't wait to start AG, but as I read more about it, I know I need to take my time getting to that point. Not only do i feel like I should get the technique down with extract brews, but it's becoming pretty obvious to me that brewing AG requires a hefty increase in equipment.

I guess that's the double-edged sword part of this for me. I can save money on ingredients by buying bulk grain, but to do that I first need to spend a lot of extra cash on equipment.

I'll get there. Every time I see pictures of AG brewing I get impatient and want to do it. :rockin:

Anyway, thanks again for all the help. I'm leaning towards just picking up those kits at the LHBS since the prices seemed comparable, especially considering they come with everything you need.

All I had to purchase was a Swiss voile bag ( curtain) to start BIAB all grain. But I had a 10 gallon kettle, propane burner, and made an immersion cooler.

 

[onipar]

All I had to purchase was a Swiss voile bag ( curtain) to start BIAB all grain. But I had a 10 gallon kettle, propane burner, and made an immersion cooler.

Yeah, I don't have the propane burner, my pot is fairly small (and it's not stainless steel), I only have buckets (no glass carboy), I need the immersion cooler, and to be honest I'm not entirely sure how the mash/sparge process works yet. Guess I need that "curtain" too?

Beyond that, I'm also a bit overwhelmed in terms of the whole cooling/heating rigs that a lot of the AG brewers have set up. Right now I'm basically just putting the bucket in a room that has a decent ambient temp, so getting a temp controlled rig together would be even more money.

Unfortunately I'm out of work for the summer (I teach college), so I have to stay on a budget.

 

[barrooze]

my pot is fairly small (and it's not stainless steel

Keep in mind that you don't have to go with SS. Aluminum pots work great and can be found cheap. If you have access to a Dremel, just go on CL and find a keg for ~$40. Cut off the top and you have a 15.5g SS pot. I would've done this if I didn't already have a 10g Al pot.

 

[onipar]

Keep in mind that you don't have to go with SS. Aluminum pots work great and can be found cheap. If you have access to a Dremel, just go on CL and find a keg for ~$40. Cut off the top and you have a 15.5g SS pot. I would've done this if I didn't already have a 10g Al pot.

Sounds like great idea. I'll definitely keep that in mind when I'm ready for AG. Sorry, what is CL? I'm still a noob. :cross:

 

[barrooze]

craigslist. I've seen many kegs on there for $30-$40 in my area. I'll bet those prices are similar around the nation.

 

[onipar]

craigslist. I've seen many kegs on there for $30-$40 in my area. I'll bet those prices are similar around the nation.

Right on, I'll check that out. Similarly, I've been having this unfounded hope that I'd find really cheap brewing gear in the classified section or at a yard sale. Fingers crossed.

Thanks again.

 

[barrooze]

I hear ya. I'm always hoping also, but only once have a stumbled upon a deal. A friend of a friend gave me his 2 cornies since he hadn't brewed in over 10 years. Hopefully you'll get a deal one of these days. Good luck!

 

[kapbrew13]

Right on, I'll check that out. Similarly, I've been having this unfounded hope that I'd find really cheap brewing gear in the classified section or at a yard sale. Fingers crossed.

Thanks again.

Keep checking Craigslist, once in blue moon, cheap gear will pop up.
Remember. The boil and every step after that is almost identical for extract and all grain brewing. Keep at it and have fun and enjoy your finished product.

 

[Homercidal]

AG is really not very difficult to do. BIAB is very easy and you can start without any of the other stuff you need for AG if you simply scale down your batch size to fit your stovetop kettle.

Besides the savings in grain vs extract, AG brewing gives you a bit more flexibility in your wort. It can take a lot of learning to understand the majority of brewing, but rest assured, you don't have to know a lot of it to start brewing AG!

You could start doing AG NOW on your stove top with nothing more fancy than a new 5 gallon paint strainer bag. Keep your eyes on CL or even post your own WANTED ad for turkey fryer setup and you could do full batches (even full boil extract!) right after you get it. A cooler Mash Tun is not hard to build and a used cooler is usually very easy to find.

I think that if you enjoy the hobby, and see yourself doing it for years, treat yourself to starting AG as soon as you can. As soon as you are comfortable with moving liquids between vessels and right after you get a good method of keeping your fermentation temps at the right place (fermentation temps > AG IMO).

I know that if you ask for help in brewing AG, you will get a lot of of help from the people here.

 

[kapbrew13]

Besides the savings in grain vs extract, AG brewing gives you a bit more flexibility in your wort. It can take a lot of learning to understand the majority of brewing, but rest assured, you don't have to know a lot of it to start brewing.

Take me for example. Lol

 

[onipar]

I'll keep that all in mind. Maybe I can get to a partial mash by the fall, and AG by winter. What's concerning me more than any of that at the moment is the realization that I won't have anywhere to keep my fermentation bucket once summer hits hard. We don't even have air conditioning, and I think my garage (where I keep the bucket now) will most likely be too hot too.

I'm currently searching through old threads for the cheapest method of keeping a fermenter cool.

Thanks for all the tips. I'll look into that BIAB too, and maybe can get going on AG that way as soon as this fall.

 

[kapbrew13]

I'll keep that all in mind. Maybe I can get to a partial mash by the fall, and AG by winter. What's concerning me more than any of that at the moment is the realization that I won't have anywhere to keep my fermentation bucket once summer hits hard. We don't even have air conditioning, and I think my garage (where I keep the bucket now) will most likely be too hot too.

I'm currently searching through old threads for the cheapest method of keeping a fermenter cool.

Thanks for all the tips. I'll look into that BIAB too, and maybe can get going on AG that way as soon as this fall.

Search swamp cooler. Maybe.

 

[barrooze]

You can get a huge rope bucket from Home Depot for a little over 5 bucks. If you got two of those and a can of expanding spray foam, you could make a huge cooler in which you can put your bucket surrounded by water and frozen water bottles to keep the temps down. If you got some thick foam board, you could make a lid similar to what Yooper uses for her lager cooler. For under $20 you could have a pretty big, well-insulated ferment chamber.

Also, I agree with the previous posts, fermentation temp control is far more important than going all grain. Looking back upon my brewing evolution, I like how I progressed. I started with partial boil extract brewing, then went to full boil in a big kettle with a propane burner, then got a Johnson Control temp controlled fermentation chamber, then progressed to AG using an old cooler as an MLT. My brews have significantly improved with each evolution of my process/equipment.

Best of luck, and don't forget, stay within your means. There's nothing wrong with using the equipment and processes at hand, as long as you understand what you're doing and how it affects your beers. Also, probably trumping all process evolutions is sanitation! Practice sanitary brewing and you and your beer will be happy.

 

[onipar]

Kapbrew, It's already too humid here.

Thanks, Barrooze, I think I'll try that temp control method you laid out. I figure with a little ingenuity and home depot, I can create a cheap enough cooler chest.

Yeah, I'm at the very beginning stage where I'm still so new that I read all the info out there and simultaneously become overwhelmed *and* impatient.

Taking your advice, I think my next evolutions will include temperature control and *maybe* a secondary fermentation vessel. From there I'll probably get a bigger cook pot so I can try the BIAB method. And after that, depending on a number of factors, I can go full boil/AG.

I guess I'd need one of those wort chillers prior to BIAB though, so that may get pushed back too.

Thanks for all the advice. Since summer is upon us, I'll probably throw all my focus behind building a cheap cooler for primary.

EDIT: I have a mini fridge from back when I was in college, so I may try to do something like this: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-diy-fermentation-chamber-244512/

 

[kapbrew13]

Warning warning. Brewing is very addictive. Your already thinking of improving you brewing. Building things, buying things. I only made 4 batches but already planning on slanting and freezing yeast, just got into a group buy, planning on getting a grain mill. Stop the insanity!!
Its a great hobby and this forum is a wealth of knowledge. Enjoy

 

[onipar]

Warning warning. Brewing is very addictive. Your already thinking of improving you brewing. Building things, buying things. I only made 4 batches but already planning on slanting and freezing yeast, just got into a group buy, planning on getting a grain mill. Stop the insanity!!
Its a great hobby and this forum is a wealth of knowledge. Enjoy

Ha! You're not kidding. I haven't even finished my *first* brew (it's in its second week of primary), and I'm already neck deep. This was my brother's idea, and the past few days he's been giving me this look like, "Calm down already." Never! :rockin:

 

[kapbrew13]

Is there a home brewers anonymous? Like gamblers and alcoholics anonymous .. lol!!

 

[onipar]

Oh , hey, Kapbrew. I owe you an apology. Earlier I made a pretty dim-witted remark about it "being too humid here" when you suggested a swamp cooler. I just searched the forum and realized you were talking about something *completely* different than what I thought.

You must have been scratching your head, wondering what the heck I was talking about. :cross:

I am going to use the swamp cooler this summer. It seems the cheapest method, and sounds like it works fine for ales.

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[kapbrew13]

Oh , hey, Kapbrew. I owe you an apology. Earlier I made a pretty dim-witted remark about it "being too humid here" when you suggested a swamp cooler. I just searched the forum and realized you were talking about something *completely* different than what I thought.

You must have been scratching your head, wondering what the heck I was talking about. :cross:

I am going to use the swamp cooler this summer. It seems the cheapest method, and sounds like it works fine for ales.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Lol. With the day at work I just had read it as humid and didn't know what to make of it. I guess swamps are humid. Lol

 

[Homercidal]

Swamp cooler FTW! It's something that's probably cheap and easy enough to be used on your next batch, no matter how you brew it.

And the biggest thing to think about is not how fast you progress, or what method you are using at the time, it's whether or not you are enjoying brewing. You can make very good beer using a varieties of methods and equipment. You can get too caught up in trying to have everything at the start, and that's no way to brew. RDWHAHB!

But, as I said, it's really not too hard to learn how the mash works and BIAB can be done by practically anyone who brews extract on the stove. It's a great way to get started mashing while you work on getting a Mash Tun built and something big enough to boil a full batch.

 

[BrewThruYou]

Do the kits from the Bethlehem store come exclusively with DME?

I think the hefeweizen kit had both LME and DME (1 can LME and 1 bag Muntons DME). It came with White Labs Hefeweizen IV ale yeast. The IPA kit had DME and specialty grains. I remember them giving me a big bag in the box and I had to steep specialty grain. It used White Labs American Ale II yeast if I remember correctly. The people there are really helpful (at least the Montgomeryville location), so if you ask them, they'll open the box, show you the instruction sheet that it comes with, and show you what the kit comes with.

Also, you mentioned that hops are much cheaper online in bulk. Is it advisable to buy all the ingredients separately when doing extract brews (with specialty grains and hops) rather than getting the kit, or is that really just when you get into AG?

I think those kits are great starting points. They are much better than the precanned kits that could be on the shelf for a long time. If you pick a style without a huge hop flavor, the hop expense won't be much. If you make an IPA with 5 or 6oz of hops, that's when you feel the pain when it's $2 to $3/oz at the LHBS and possibly $1 or less per oz online.

I can't wait to start AG, but as I read more about it, I know I need to take my time getting to that point. Not only do i feel like I should get the technique down with extract brews, but it's becoming pretty obvious to me that brewing AG requires a hefty increase in equipment.

It's up to you. This hobby can be as expensive as you make it to be. When I started doing all-grain, I went over a buddy's house to watch him because I got confused just reading about the process. When I wanted ingredients for AG, I'd take a list to Keystone, had them get all of them for me, crush the grains, and they put it in a big heat-sealed bag.

 

[onipar]

Thanks, Homercidal. I'm trying not to get too caught up in trying to get everything at once. Lucky thing I'm broke, otherwise I probably would have jumped into the deep end.

I'm having a blast so far. I just can't wait to have some homebrew ready to drink. That should do wonders for my impatience.

Thanks for the extra info, BrewThruYou. Yeah, the people at the store were real helpful. In fact when i was there they *did* open the box and showed me what was inside, but at that point I hadn't done any reading and had *no idea* what I was doing. At all. So when he was talking about the box kit versus the can, I though the box was all grain. :cross: I know...

Also, my brother and I looked at the price of the box and then the price of a can of LME, and we said, well, the can is cheaper, so lets do that. Little did we know that we also needed a bag of DME and other stuff that pretty much brought the price to around the $30 we would have spent on the box kit anyway.

The kit it is for our next batch.

 

[kapbrew13]

You could try the lower priced kits and see what you like. Beer style that is.
Also heard junk/scrap yards might have cheap soda and 15 gallon kegs. Just a rumor

 

[onipar]

You could try the lower priced kits and see what you like. Beer style that is.
Also heard junk/scrap yards might have cheap soda and 15 gallon kegs. Just a rumor

Cool cool. I'll check that out. Have my feelers out on Craig's List and the local classified section as well.

Yeah, the kits all seemed to be priced around the $30-$50 mark. That's really not that bad considering two cases would normally cost at least $40-$80, depending what I got.

 

[onipar]

I hit the LHBS today and purchased a Nut Brown Ale kit. It came with over two pounds of (4 types) of specialty grains, two ounces of (2 types) of hops, two cans of LME, all the muslin bags I need, Corn sugar, and a slap pack of liquid yeast.

It was 45.50 for the kit.

After purchasing it, I went to a bunch of the online site, and yes, most of them *start* cheaper. But then I add a comparable yeast, shipping, etc etc, and they all seem to come to about the same price.

One or two places, I'd save maybe 3-4 bucks online, but even then the ingredients seemed lesser than what I got from the LHBS.

Anyway, just wanted to follow up with this. It seems, for the time being, the LHBS is okay for the extract kits. Maybe once I go all grain it'll be a different story.

 

[samc]

I always buy local if I can as I like to support my own community. IF price becomes a major issue, ask for a discount if they can to compete on price. Also factor in local support if they give it and you deem it of value. I was in my LHBS yesterday and had conversations with several different customers who provided different input on a variety of beer related subjects, can't get that from an online purchase.

 

[onipar]

I always buy local if I can as I like to support my own community. IF price becomes a major issue, ask for a discount if they can to compete on price. Also factor in local support if they give it and you deem it of value. I was in my LHBS yesterday and had conversations with several different customers who provided different input on a variety of beer related subjects, can't get that from an online purchase.

I've only been to mine twice now (very new to this and it's 45 minutes away), but both times the people there have been super helpful. It is really nice being able to walk in and talk about what you're brewing, and ask any questions you have.

Honestly, so far everything I've purchased there is comparable to online prices, as long as you factor in shipping prices. The only thing I've noticed thus far to be a great price difference are the hops, but when doing the extract kits, I wouldn't be buying a pound at a time online anyway.

Yes, so I agree. I just wish the LHBS was closer. :cross:

 

[broadbill]

I always buy local if I can as I like to support my own community. IF price becomes a major issue, ask for a discount if they can to compete on price. Also factor in local support if they give it and you deem it of value. I was in my LHBS yesterday and had conversations with several different customers who provided different input on a variety of beer related subjects, can't get that from an online purchase.

My LHBS would need to give me a 40-50% discount to compete with Brewmaster's Warehouse prices (even with shipping).

I'm all for buying local too, but there is a limit.