Infection Prevention and Cleaning Discussion

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BrewFrisco

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Hello Mates – This seems to be one the most critical aspects to the success of our brew.

I am curious as to what process everyone else takes when preparing on brew-day. I am looking for details and any tips to speed up the process from staging and storing equipment.

Is it possible to sanitize days in advance and wrap with saran-wrap? I have to assume that if this is safe in the medical world, it is safe for beer!

Thanks in advance. :tank:
 
Is it possible - yes. I don't think I'd suggest it though.

For me, I have a bunch of 5 gallon buckets -- mainly from Home Depot, but also some measured out. For every batch I make one 5 gallon bucket of starsan mix which is typically enough for everything. Anything I plan on touching my wort after it's cooled just sits in the bucket -- simple enough. When I'm ready to use it, i take it out of the starsan, use it, and then drop it back in afterwards.

Unless you let it sit a long time or put a bunch of crap in it, that bucket of starsan sits in my basement until my next brewday where i can just dip instruments/airlocks/tubing as I need. I don't know if this is a best practice, but it's what I do.
 
It's actually NOT that "critical" because honestly what most new brewers think is an infection is usually something completely normal, and their fear of their beer.

"Good sanitizaion" is a an important issue...But "infection control" isn't, that makes it sound like infections are more prominant then they really are. Phrasing it that way is really coming from a fear based perspective.....

Honestly, especially to the new brewer with brand spanking new equipment and even the most rudiementary of sanitization and cleanliness, and plenty of yeast, our beer is hardier than most new brewer's give it credit.

Our beer and our yeast is more hardier than a lot of noobs think it is. People have done all matter of stupid things, and yet our beer manages to survive, as these stories can atttest.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

It really is more likely that I will get an infection than a brand new brewer (and I have) because my equipment has gotten more use, and there could be scratches or bio-matter lodged in it.

There is a lot of info in this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/has-anyone-ever-messed-up-batch-96644/

I hate to break it to you, but it's inevetable that you will have a bad batch or infection somewhere down the line...On Craftbrewer radio they said it usually happens around the 10th, the 30th and the 50th batch...even the pro's deal with it (the Brewer at New Glarus said in an interview on Basicbrewing radio that a commercial brewery operation gets a 3 year grace period before their first infection)

It's called a house germ...and it develops over time...

I got an infection around the 20th batch, I replaced my autosiphon, bottling wand and all my hoses and changed my sanitizer, in case the house germ was getting used to it...

This is one of the best posts on the subject....

If you pitch enough viable, healthy yeast to do their job, it's hard to contaminate your brew to the point it isn't drinkable. Trust me, I've had an infection in my brewery, and I had to work really hard to get it! :D In my case, it was on the fourth generation of re-using yeast which I had not washed properly (I was still a n00b back then). Every time you reuse yeast you are growing the level of contamination by 100-1000x, so I learned the hard way you have to be very careful going beyond 1 or 2 re-uses of yeast.

BUT A new brewer following sanitary procedures using new equipment is very unlikely to have ruined beer. The worst thing that may happen is your beer will go sour after 4-6 months of room temperature storage. I doubt your beer will last that long. :rolleyes:


The hosts of the podcast in Australia have 60 years of brewing experiencethis is a very good discussion on infection and infection control.

They talk about the "timeframe" of infections, and how it is less likely for a first batch to be infected...it tends to occur around the 10th batch and the 50th...When the equipment gets more used up, and "house germs" start to build up. They used the term "house mouth" in the discussion, how we may not even notice, because we're sort of used to the taste of our beers, it's usually NOT a regular drinker of our beers that notices it.

December#2,2006

“What is sour mashing?” I hear you ask. So said our brewmaster as he guides you thru this most interesting of ways of making a beer. In a nice compact show, we also cover feedback, Kit and Kilo infections, our beer superhero turns “gay”, and a faviourite beer song is requested yet again. Not enough, well also hear about WHO stuffed up his brew day.

http://radio.craftbrewer.org/shows/December2-06.mp3

So really, if it happens it's not the end of the world....but most people need to realize, especially new brewers that infections are still relatively rare, especially if it is your first batch of beer, and you gear is relatively new. Someone like me with several year old gear is more likely going to get a scratch or slip somewhere and get one.

AND SOME BREWERS NEVER GET ONE....So even though the odds are higher for older brewers, it is still small.

But after I found the source of mine (in my autosiphon) I replaced it, got new hoses, thoroughly cleaned everything, and began alternating between Starsan and iodophor to keep ahead of any germs...I haven't had any more issues in a year.

But there's nothing "special" that has to be done for "infection control" beyond the basic sanitization.

You'll find that since beer has been made for millenia even before anyone understood germ theory, that even just the basic fact that we have indoor water, clean our living spaces and ourselves regularly and have closed waste systems, and a roof over our heads, that we are lightyears ahead of our ancestor brewers.

And despite the doomsayers who say that ancient beer was consumed young because it would go bad, they forget the fact that most of those beers were usually HOPLESS, and that the biggest reason hops were placed in beers was for it's antisceptic/preservative function.

So even if the beer had to be consumed young, it still must have tasted good enough to those folks most of the time to survive culturally for 4,000 years, and not go the way of pepsi clear or new coke. I'm sure even a few hundred or thousands of years ago, people were discerning enough to know if something tasted good or nasty...

Go take a look at my photo walkthrough of Labatt's first "pioneer" brewery from the 1840's https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f85/labatt-pioneer-brewery-128740/

Wood fermenters, open cooling pans, open doors, cracks in the logs and beams letting air in, and not one bottle of starsan in sight. :D

The way I figure even just having some soap and water, basic 21st century hygiene, and a basic understanding of germ theory trumps how it was done from Gilgamesh's time through Louis Pasteure's....

In most places we don't have to even worry about boiling our water before drinking it. :D

Best advice I have for new brewers, If you brew from fear, you won't make great beer!

You might make drinkable beer, or you might make crap...but until your realize that your beer is much hardier than you think it is, you will find that this is much more enjoyable of a hobby.

But infection worry, It is NOT something we have to freak out about, like new brewers do...It's just something to be AWARE of and keep an eye out.

But it's kinda like when you have a brand new car, you park at the far end of the lot away from everyone else, you are paranoid about getting every little scratch on it...Then you are backing out of the garage and take off a mirror, or get a ding on the bumper, then you no-longer stress out about it, because you've popped the cars cherry...If you do pick up a bug, you just treat it and move on.
 
Is it possible to sanitize days in advance and wrap with saran-wrap? I have to assume that if this is safe in the medical world, it is safe for beer!

Thanks in advance. :tank:

Actually imho, THAT would more likely cause an infection....The sanitizers we use are "wet contact,no-rinse" sanitizer that means as long as the object you sanitize is still wet with sanitizer it kills anyting that it touches....if you do something like that, you only kill any germs already on the stuff....the minute you remove the saran wrap, and any micro particle comes into contact with it...then it is no longer sanitized.

I believe firmly in sanitizing fresh on brewing or bottling day.

I have answered a lot of questions, and provided a lot of tips to sanitzing here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/sanitizer-question-54932/?highlight=sanitizer+question
 
I'm breaking my seal to officially request that Revvy's response get moved to the Equipment/Sanitation forum and STICKIED at the top of the list. That is a spectacular response and deserves to be one of the first things every newly addicted homebrewer should read. Thank you, Revvy, for the very thorough info and reassurance.
 
+1 on Revvy's comments. Frankly, I can't see how a sanitized piece of saran wrap is going to cause a problem, but why not just sanitize everything on brew day?? It literally only takes a few moments for me. Star San and a spray bottle are FANTASTIC! I usually mix up about 1 gallon on a brew day and when it's all done I refill the spray bottle.

Clean up takes much more time for me than sanitizing, but I usually sanitize everything after cleaning it and putting it away.
 
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