Infected First Batch :(

[Sailor_Jack]

This is my first post so be gentle.

So as the title would suggest my first batch didn't go so well. I had purchased a brew kit online for what should have been a Chocolate Oatmeal Stout but after I opening up the bottles today it seems I got a Chocolate Oatmeal sour. Something of my mine wasn't sanitized enough obviously though I can't say to certain what. While I'm fairly confident it wasn't the fermenter or bottles, that still leaves quite of few things. I would guess my auto siphon because it was the one piece of equipment I was uncertain on the best way to sanitize. Regardless, I had to pour three 16 oz. bottles down the drain, and now I'm a little crestfallen in regards to home brewing. I don't want to give up after the first try though.

My question is there a simple way to guarantee good sanitization especially for a newbie like myself? The instructions with the kit were very vague when it came to that particular subject, and I don't want to risk another failed batch.

 

[LLBeanJ]

What product did you use for your sanitizing?

Edit: Oh, and sorry to hear your first batch turned out bad.

 

[Sailor_Jack]

What product did you use for your sanitizing?

Edit: Oh, and sorry to hear your first batch turned out bad.

It was just labeled as "No Rinse Sanitizer". Something similar to Star San, I think.

 

[Psylocide]

What did you use to sanitize with? Are you using star-san or something else?

EDIT: Oop, beat me to it.

 

[Chadwick]

How long did you let the beers condition in the bottles?

 

[Sailor_Jack]

How long did you let the beers condition in the bottles?

Seven days.

 

[flars]

Seven days.

Why did you pour three bottles down the drain? Did they not taste right or for some other reason?
It takes more than seven days of bottle conditioning, at about 70°, to determine whether or not the brew is a good one.
I would bottle condition a chocolate oatmeal stout for about six weeks before tasting.

 

[paperairplane]

I am a fan of star san - to sanitize a siphon, I like to have 2 containers / buckets / carboy - whatever - and just siphon back and forth. It's also handy to have a spray bottle with sanitizer close by - when in doubt you can just spray something down.

While you don't have to be crazy obsessive about sanitation, there are some areas where you have to be really conscious of your process. Fermentation vessel, bottling bucket, bottles and siphon are really high on that list.

Don't get discouraged. The number of people who knocked it out of the park their first batch are very limited in number and most probably had a really good mentor.

I would also keep trying your beer - might get lucky and it was just a couple dirty bottles or something.

 

[Chadwick]

Seven days.

Most beers taste exceedingly foul after only 7 days of bottle conditioning. Like the previous posted stated, give it 6 weeks before you try another.

When I was a new brewer I almost poured out my first batches of beer because of off-tastes and foul flavors. It was difficult to convince me that those beers would turn out wonderful. Fortunately, I was convinced to let them age. They did indeed turn out wonderful. I even had one that I was convince had turned to vinegar, once again, it was only the effect of not being properly aged.

Regardless of what any recipe says, beer is rarely ready to drink after 2 weeks of bottle conditioning. I don't even bother to open many of my beers until after 2 months of aging. Some of my big barleywines age for 12 months or more.

 

[Sailor_Jack]

Why did you pour three bottles down the drain? Did they not taste right or for some other reason?
It takes more than seven days of bottle conditioning, at about 70°, to determine whether or not the brew is a good one.
I would bottle condition a chocolate oatmeal stout for about six weeks before tasting.

They were horribly sour and there was definite funk smell when I took a whiff. The instructions I got with the kit said seven days, so that's what I went with. I assumed that if I waited the time and beer was that sour, it must have been infected. Seems I might have jumped the gun possibly.

Glad the ingredient kit was cheap, though a waste is still waste.

 

[GHBWNY]

Seven days.

Yeah, as flars said above, let them condition a LOT longer. You can't judge a beer's future that soon after bottling. Let them sit at room temp for AT LEAST another couple of weeks, then put one in the fridge overnight and taste it. I think you'll find it has improved noticeably. Or if it's truly infected, you'll know that for sure. I routinely bottle-condition my ales @ 70F for 3 weeks and then 1 week in the fridge. A chewier beer like a stout takes even longer to condition than your average ale and usually improves with age.

 

[Psylocide]

I'm with flars on this one... light beers can take 2 weeks to taste right. A somewhat complex or darker brew can take longer.

What specific flavor are you tasting? Could you describe it based on any of these examples?

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

 

[Sailor_Jack]

I'm with flars on this one... light beers can take 2 weeks to taste right. A somewhat complex or darker brew can take longer.

What specific flavor are you tasting? Could you describe it based on any of these examples?

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

Astringent would probably fit the best. There was also a definite funk to the aroma like I mentioned earlier.

 

[lowtones84]

That no-rinse sanitizer is likely "one step" that is included in most kits. It's not technically a sanitizer, though many people (myself included) used it for a while before not knowing about star-san with no trouble.

It's more likely the process you used while sanitizing. Did you taste at bottling time? As far as the autosiphon and tubing, etc. I usually just hook it up and keep the bottom of the siphon in the bucket and pump to get the solution running through it for a while.

 

[smizak]

Ugh, bad internet advice alert.

Most beers taste exceedingly foul after only 7 days of bottle conditioning.

Not always, actually, not usually. Under-carbed, but foul?

Like the previous posted stated, give it 6 weeks before you try another.

Ok for a stout I guess, but I still find fresher beer better regardless of the style

Regardless of what any recipe says, beer is rarely ready to drink after 2 weeks of bottle conditioning. I don't even bother to open many of my beers until after 2 months of aging.

OP, please never wait for a beer to be 2 months old before you try it. Heaven forbid with any hoppy beer. My beer never tastes better than at two weeks after packaging.

 

[Sailor_Jack]

That no-rinse sanitizer is likely "one step" that is included in most kits. It's not technically a sanitizer, though many people (myself included) used it for a while before not knowing about star-san with no trouble.

It's more likely the process you used while sanitizing. Did you taste at bottling time? As far as the autosiphon and tubing, etc. I usually just hook it up and keep the bottom of the siphon in the bucket and pump to get the solution running through it for a while.

Looks like I need to invest in some Star San then.

I didn't taste at bottling time, just siphoned directly into the bottles. I did try running the apparently not-so sanitizer through the auto siphon though. Wasn't sure if that was the proper method or not.

 

[MaxStout]

Maybe it was an infection, maybe it was insufficient time conditioning. Maybe it was both. It sucks to lose a batch (most of us have), but it's a good learning experience.

Next batch, you will be better prepared on two fronts. Switch to a true no-rinse sanitizer (i.e., Starsan) and be very diligent about sanitizing anything that will contact or be close to your wort and beer.

Then give those bottles more time to condition. I would say 3 weeks MINIMUM, and 4 or 5 are better. Store the bottles in a dark place, at temps around 65-70F. If it's cooler, it will take longer. It also depends on the type of beer. Generally, the bigger the beer, the longer it takes. Ignore those LHBS instruction sheets when they say "1 week." They are just trying to make the process look easier in order to sell more kits.

 

[BDS]

A Chocolate oatmeal sour sounds interesting haha. What yeast strain did you use?? What temp did you pitch it at?? How did the fermentation go?? Even if you cleaned everything correct however, if the yeast didn't get going fast other things could have took over before the yeast got a chance to start... The count of saccharomyces (brewers yeast) would be higher so it would eventually take control but not before you get a lot of lactic acid and other off flavors. However a sour can be drinkable in the long run, as long as you pitched it at the right temp and it did a good ferment. Lactobacillus, Brettanomyces, and Pediococcus are not necessarily bad. You would be better off checking ph first as long as the ph is in the low range and you actually fished with a lower Fg then the Og you should be good. Bad things have a hard time living in things with that much acidity and that much ethanol. Im not an expert on sours but I have done a lot of research and brewed up one. Don't feel so bad bud. I pitched at over 87f the first time I brewed, needless to say I ended up with something dangerous. I hope you decide to keep brewing its a lot of fun and the mission of learning how to is the best part..

 

[russell58]

First don't get discouraged about brewing it can be a lot of fun once you figure out what to do . I use Star San for anything that could even come close to my brew. I also soak everything in PBW or Oxiclean before brew day then rinse, re-rinse then drop in Star San. Keep at it until you figure out what happen and use as a learning opportunity. Good luck with the next brew.

Cheers

 

[Sailor_Jack]

A Chocolate oatmeal sour sounds interesting haha. What yeast strain did you use?? What temp did you pitch it at?? How did the fermentation go?? Even if you cleaned everything correct however, if the yeast didn't get going fast other things could have took over before the yeast got a chance to start... The count of saccharomyces (brewers yeast) would be higher so it would eventually take control but not before you get a lot of lactic acid and other off flavors. However a sour can be drinkable in the long run, as long as you pitched it at the right temp and it did a good ferment. Lactobacillus, Brettanomyces, and Pediococcus are not necessarily bad. You would be better off checking ph first as long as the ph is in the low range and you actually fished with a lower Fg then the Og you should be good. Bad things have a hard time living in things with that much acidity and that much ethanol. Im not an expert on sours but I have done a lot of research and brewed up one. Don't feel so bad bud. I pitched at over 87f the first time I brewed, needless to say I ended up with something dangerous. I hope you decide to keep brewing its a lot of fun and the mission of learning how to is the best part..

Hindsight is in 20/20. xD

Honestly, I can't even answer those first few questions off the top of my head. All I know is that every time some posts on this thread, I learn another thing I should have done. Apparently those instructions I got aren't worth following to the letter though.

 

[BDS]

Hindsight is in 20/20. xD

Honestly, I can't even answer those first few questions off the top of my head. All I know is that every time some posts on this thread, I learn another thing I should have done. Apparently those instructions I got aren't worth following to the letter though.

haha Getting the first batch right is overrated! But this is good for everyone.

 

[midfielder5]

I would stop tasting and put em aside for three more weeks. Then try a taste, and then wait more time. Your recipe is complex, ingredient wise.

Brew an easy blonde or pale ale-- should be ready to bottle 2 weeks from brew day if you have the right amount of yeast and ferment at the right temps.

Some kit instructions have you rush a beer through the process, so you can buy more kits. As a newb, it is hard to tell the good from bad instructions. So go read How to Brew by JP along w/ StarSan(!!and then do a second batch after you understand things a bit better. and try to brew with an experienced person near you, some things are better seen than read.
good luck.

 

[bottlebomber]

They likely aren't infected. Sometimes the bottle conditioning process can make some funky flavors, maybe some sour apple. Shoot, even when I keg the freshly CO2 infused beer tastes bad to me compared to a week later. It's really not that easy to get an infection.

 

[Psylocide]

They likely aren't infected. Sometimes the bottle conditioning process can make some funky flavors, maybe some sour apple. Shoot, even when I keg the freshly CO2 infused beer tastes bad to me compared to a week later. It's really not that easy to get an infection.

Strong username to post irony ratio.

 

[bbohanon]

Been brewing a while now and I have only had one infected batch which I found to be attributed to 2 fruit flies that landed in my beer when I was dry hopping it. Those buggers are nasty and ruined a great beer.

As others have stated, its really hard to get an infection unless you are just very lax on sanitation. I second the previous poster that bottle conditioning a dark beer takes much longer than 7 days time to get everything to come together and turn itself into an awesome beer.
I would also make sure you are getting a good kit with fresh ingredients.

Keep it simple and dont sweat it. Great beer takes time. Patience I have found is yours and your beers best friend.

Bill

 

[Qhrumphf]

Ugh, bad internet advice alert.


Not always, actually, not usually. Under-carbed, but foul?


Ok for a stout I guess, but I still find fresher beer better regardless of the style




OP, please never wait for a beer to be 2 months old before you try it. Heaven forbid with any hoppy beer. My beer never tastes better than at two weeks after packaging.

This.

For new brewers, yes, age is usually better. But that's because parts of the process (usually the yeast/fermentation management) are substandard. I brew session beers, put em in the cask at about 10 days, and tap the first by 15 days, and it's absolutely wonderful fresh ale.

You mentioned sour and funky. Funky can mean a lot of different things. In normal beer lexicon it usually means barnyard, goat, horse, that kind of thing. But it may not necessarily be infection. Poor fermentation management can give off some flavors that I suppose one could call "funky".

Sour though, is much more specific. How would you describe it? Kind of tart with a green apple character? Like vinegar? Like spoiled milk? If it's the first, it's an intermediary fermentative compound that should age out. If it's vinegar (acetic acid) or sour milk (lactic acid), then yes, you probably do have an infection.

What I would do is put your bottles somewhere safe and sturdy (inside a plastic tote bin with the lid on) just in case they ARE infected, as wild yeast/bugs can eat things that beer yeast can't, and you may end up with bottle bombs. And then give it a few more weeks before you try again.

 

[Sailor_Jack]

This.

For new brewers, yes, age is usually better. But that's because parts of the process (usually the yeast/fermentation management) are substandard. I brew session beers, put em in the cask at about 10 days, and tap the first by 15 days, and it's absolutely wonderful fresh ale.

You mentioned sour and funky. Funky can mean a lot of different things. In normal beer lexicon it usually means barnyard, goat, horse, that kind of thing. But it may not necessarily be infection. Poor fermentation management can give off some flavors that I suppose one could call "funky".

Sour though, is much more specific. How would you describe it? Kind of tart with a green apple character? Like vinegar? Like spoiled milk? If it's the first, it's an intermediary fermentative compound that should age out. If it's vinegar (acetic acid) or sour milk (lactic acid), then yes, you probably do have an infection.

What I would do is put your bottles somewhere safe and sturdy (inside a plastic tote bin with the lid on) just in case they ARE infected, as wild yeast/bugs can eat things that beer yeast can't, and you may end up with bottle bombs. And then give it a few more weeks before you try again.

Someone earlier sent me a link to taste guide, and the best I could narrow it down to was "astringent". The funk I mentioned early was the smell really. Then again, I can't say entirely for certain now consider the bottle was fed to the drain. I think the paranoia of "OMG my beer is infected!" overrode my common sense. With everything mentioned in this thread and what I know now, it's just as possible that the beer needed a lot more conditioning than what I gave it. I wish I had put in a lot more background research than simply just assuming the instructions were full proof. Navy logic for ya'.

 

[midfielder5]

You also need to take a hydrometer reading.. this 4oz sample is the beer you taste at bottling time-- don't pour it back in!
Hydro reading is necessary to determine if the yeast has reached FG. So you must not have taken this measurement. again, there is a lot to learn so don't be too hard on yourself, but keep learning!

 

[mfgann]

I had the same thing happen to my first batch. I trusted the powder they included as a cleaner/sanitizer, and it did not work. It was a simple amber ale, and despite waiting for the sour taste to subside, it just got worse.

I invested in some Star San, which others have mentioned, and love it. Mix up a batch for sanitation, and also fill up a spray bottle with it. I use it liberally on anything that touches the Wort post-boil.

So far I haven't seen an infection like that pop up again, so I'm blaming it on the lack of a good sanitizer in the kit. It sounds like you were bit by the same thing.

Try not to let it discourage you. The Hefeweizen I brewed just after that batch was the best Hefeweizen I've had. .. hmm .. I think it may be time for me to brew up another batch of Hefe.

Cheers!

 

[desabat]

Dont give up, my first batch got infected as well and I havent had one since. I took samples without sanitizing my siphon and ruined it. It gets better once you make some more batches.

 

[Malty_Dog]

That's real unfortunate (1st batch and all), but lessons have been learned. My 1st brew was hideous...I didn't know 80+ degrees was bad fermentation practice - for an Oktoberfest (LOL). Hang in there, buy Star San, control ferm temps, all will be well.

 

[kh54s10]

Sorry about the lost bottles. Do you have more? I have tasted my beers at 7 days bottle conditioning (once or twice). They did not taste "foul". There was very little carbonation though. At 2 weeks some were carbonated. At 3 weeks ALL of them have tasted better. Some bigger beers took even longer to condition properly, one took 6 months.

Kit instructions seem to be written to get you drinking the beer ASAP, often to the detriment of the beer itself. Maybe the reason is to sell more kits. They are also written so they don't overwhelm the new brewer.

Keep learning, start a new kit. As soon as you taste it and don't have another problem get 2 more going. Once you have good beer, it will disappear very quickly.

I did 4 extract kits, then 2 Partial mash kits and 2 partial mash recipes, I then did one all grain kit then started using my own ingredients (to save money) on proven recipes. After a couple of those I started experimenting by altering recipes, then designing my own. Through more than 70 batches I am still learning and trying new things.

This is a great hobby!