Indoor AG brewing.

[Fingers]

So I'd like to set up an indoor operation for my AG brews in the basement so I can dodge the harsh Manitoba winters. Yes, I will be using a Banjo Burner indoors but I'm not one of those Darwin award winners that asphysiate themselves in a bout of stupidity. I also don't want to drive the humidity levels up in my house like some sort of grow op mould thing.

I have a large stainless steel hood I can set up over my pots to contain and expel the humidity from the boiling wort. I'll put a sealed duct fan in there to force the air movement to evacuate to the outdoors. Of course my biggest concern is for CO building up in the brew room.

My current plan is to build a metal cylinder of tin and seal it to the floor. The burner and pot will go in the center and I'll use a bathroom fan attached to the bottom of the cylinder to remove accumulated CO from the cylinder and send it up the stainless hood to be evacuated along with the steam. Because CO is heavier than air, I expect that the cylinder would trap the gas and keep it out of the room. I'm just not sure how quickly the gas accumulates and in what quantities so I don't know if the bathroom fan would be able to keep up.

I may be able to borrow a meter from work to measure CO levels so I can do a test run with just water before I risk a batch of wort. If it passes, I'll buy a CO detector and keep it in the room continuously just to warn me of any failures in the system.

Any comments?

 

[Beerrific]

If I were going to brew indoors with propane I would, as you said, have a CO detector and also have someone else in the house to check on me every now and then (SWMBO, friend, dog, whatever). Odds are that the day the CO detector stops and your burner starts throwing out deadly gas would never happen at the same time but you can never be too safe.

 

[Fingers]

I'd like to know the volume of gas produced at a given rate of burn. If I were sitting rather than standing, door open versus closed, etc. I think it can be done safely if it were done intelligently and with built in safeguards as you suggest. I'd also think about building an electric HLT so the whole exposure would be limited to the boil.

 

[Sean]

The first thing that comes to my mind is that in winter the house is pretty well sealed, and you are going to want to make sure you have some sort of vent for make up air. To replace the air that is being exhausted. Otherwise the exhaust is not going to go out.

The other is that although CO sinks there are going to be some jets pushing it up, so it will not sink immediately. If you build the hood large enough to cover the area around the pot and burner and keep it a couple of feet above the pot, you should be fine.

I am basing this on the way it works in a restaurant. I think you will want a decent size exhaust fan, but I don't think you need the bathroom fan as well.

Make-up air is essential.

 

[Fingers]

My first knee jerk reaction was that my old house has enough air leaks to more than make up for the discharge, but you got me thinking, Sean. I think combustion would be increased if I were to run two hoses from the burner surround. One to discharge CO and one to introduce fresh air. That way the burner would have its catalyst and I wouldn't have to heat the incoming air with my furnace. I wonder what effect the colder, heavier air would have? I really don't want to have a hose of -30 degree air discharging into the room unless it's feeding the Banjo.

 

[perry]

Call me Darwinian, but I brewed indoors for fifteen years with a pretty mega burner! My set-up was a small, steel-legged table with a wooden top and two eight-by-sixteen inch cinder blocks that the burner sat on. Heat rises, mostly. My windows were always open so as to avoid that sinking feeling that comes from inhaling too much CO.

The benefits were many... I brewed in all weather, at all times of the day and I was forced (by the series of co-habitants of the the opposite gender) to get my s#!t together enough such that I did not have to break out the mop after each brewing session. I never had the luxury of a garage in those days (still don't, come to think of it).

The biggest mis-hap I experienced (aside from the occasional boil-over ) was when I set the lighter down under the burner and forgot about it... when it blew, I thought a f#@%!#g bomb had gone off! Would have been considerably less dramatic had it happened out-of-doors...

I mentioned my in-door brewing here on this site awhile back and received a number of critical responses, most of which could be summarized by "man, are you ever a dumb-ass."

I say- go for it (and think it through carefully, as you seem to have done).

Cheers, -p

 

[FlyGuy]

Hey Fingers - I gotta say, man, this idea has me both very intrigued and very nervous! I can certainly relate to your desire to brew indoors. I still haven't figured out a way to do it outside -- I even have an attached garage, but no way to get water out there for the chilling without freezing my faucet later.

Anyways, it sounds like you are thinking through this pretty carefully, and I bet you will get an awesome system going that works really well. But what about the risk of fire? That would be my first concern. Murphy's Law states that if a burner can tip over or flare up or something bad, it will be most likely to occur indoors. Is your tin 'bowl' going to help at all?

And I know you probably don't want to hear these words in reference to your basement, but will your insurance cover any mishaps (like accidental fire)? That's what I would be most leary of. Or maybe after your ordeal this summer, you already punched out your insurance man and lost it anyways? Ha ha -- sorry, bad joke.

 

[Alemental]

I would suggest that you order a copy of Nov. 2002 vol. 8 no.7 from Brew your own magazine. It has a thorough article on setting up an indoor brewery, with all the do and don't do things you need to know.

 

[fifelee]

Your cylinder idea to trap the CO2 is interesting, but it might prevent O2 from getting to the burner and require a big exhaust fan. CO2 may be heavier at room temp, but I think it rises when hot otherwise indoor fire places wouldn't work. I can't remember where I heard this, but I think the proper way to hood an indoor burner is to weld a skirt around the base of your boil pot. The skirt would go out horizontal or at a slight downward angle then bend down to the floor. Then run a duct from a high point on the skirt to the outside. The duct would act just like a chimney but you could also add a fan if you where worried about air flow. The already rising hot air/gases goes out the chimney and pulls in fresh air under the skirt.

 

[fifelee]

I know my descriptive abilities are limited, so I drew this up. Again this is only something stuck in the back of my often faulty memory, so I advise asking a professional. Maybe a fireplace installer would know for sure.

Another thought...The rising hot air would warm your kettle and possibly increase fuel efficiency.

 

[Bobby_M]

If it were me, I'd situate the setup directly below a basement window. I'd make a custom insert for this opening that contained a large hole for a gable-end vent fan (about 14" in diameter) and a 8" hole for a fresh air intake. I'd make up a hood to concentrate the suction directly over the kettle, leaving just enough room between to stir and do what I have to do. I'd then run 8" hard duct work down just under the burner. You'll have a nice updraft that will carry your steam and CO out and you won't be sacrificing ALL the conditioned air from the rest of the house.

YMMV, don't hold me accountable.

 

[New2HomeBrew]

Instead of going to all that trouble, why not just run a natural gas line down to the basement and hook up a stove top hood. Then you could get one of those bitchin multi directional jet burners.

 

[BierMuncher]

I'd love to brew in my workshop in the basement. Double basin shop sink...window that opens...louvered door to allow air to flow in...no carrying five gallon pales to the basement from the garage...

But the thought of that banjo burner going inside my house makes my palms sweat.

Of course, the first time I AG'd in my garage, I sat there in a 25 degree garage, with the door all the way open and the fire extinguisher on my lap the whole time and never moved.

Bout wet my pants.

 

[Bobby_M]

First, you assume that he has natural gas running into his house. Maybe not. I also would not trust a typical range exhaust hood to evacuate all the steam and Co he'd be producing with a high output burner of any kind.

 

[Ryanh1801]

Instead of going to all that trouble, why not just run a natural gas line down to the basement and hook up a stove top hood. Then you could get one of those bitchin multi directional jet burners.

Thats what I was thinking.

 

[ScubaSteve]

If it were me, I'd situate the setup directly below a basement window. I'd make a custom insert for this opening that contained a large hole for a gable-end vent fan (about 14" in diameter) and a 8" hole for a fresh air intake. I'd make up a hood to concentrate the suction directly over the kettle, leaving just enough room between to stir and do what I have to do. I'd then run 8" hard duct work down just under the burner. You'll have a nice updraft that will carry your steam and CO out and you won't be sacrificing ALL the conditioned air from the rest of the house.

YMMV, don't hold me accountable.

That's gotta be the way to go. But check and double check your CO monitor! Maybe get 2 and put them in different areas of the basement.

 

[FlyingHorse]

The problem with propane isn't just CO. Propane (unlike natural gas) is heavier than air, which means if you have a leak (or the flame goes out for a minute and you don't notice b/c you went to take a leak/answer the phone/grab another HB, etc.) the propane goes to the lowest point in your house. This is usually the basement floor...conveniently near the pilot light or igniter for your furnace and your water heater. Propane meets flame or spark and BOOM.

 

[sphericalcamel]

Anything against using electricity instead of propane? You wouldn't have to worry about the CO then, and as an added bonus you could send me the banjo burner for safety purposes.

 

[griffondg]

Why not just brew on your stove top range? Depending on your BTU's it works very well. My 10 gallon brewpot is large enough to cover 2 burners so I can get a rolling boil with 6.5 gallons of wort in about 35 minutes. To me that's sufficient for winter time brewing instead of risking killing yourself.

 

[Alemental]

The problem with propane isn't just CO. Propane (unlike natural gas) is heavier than air, which means if you have a leak (or the flame goes out for a minute and you don't notice b/c you went to take a leak/answer the phone/grab another HB, etc.) the propane goes to the lowest point in your house. This is usually the basement floor...conveniently near the pilot light or igniter for your furnace and your water heater. Propane meets flame or spark and BOOM.

I'll 2nd this opinion. Not at all safe. Again, this is covered in that BYO article.

http://brewyourownstore.com/

 

[woosterhoot]

I live in an apartment and brew all grain indoors all the time. I just do 3 or 5 gallon batches in two pots on the stove top by splitting the boil. Way easy and I acutally like it better because I can still manhandle the pots and stuff. I have a propane burner for my smoker but the thought of bringing it indoors is scary. Rather than building some ventilation system, I'd buy another pot. Unless the whole point is an excuse to buy more tools make a project out of it.

 

[olllllo]

It seems to me that there are three safety concerns.
1) It is indoors
2) It is in the basement
3) Propane sinks

Do you have a garage?
Is your basement scenario going to cost less than $300 - $500 USD?
A permanently installed electric or propane garage heater will cost about that much AND will factor positively in resale value as opposed to what will be perceived as a DIY crematorium.

 

[Fingers]

If it were me, I'd situate the setup directly below a basement window. I'd make a custom insert for this opening that contained a large hole for a gable-end vent fan (about 14" in diameter) and a 8" hole for a fresh air intake. I'd make up a hood to concentrate the suction directly over the kettle, leaving just enough room between to stir and do what I have to do. I'd then run 8" hard duct work down just under the burner. You'll have a nice updraft that will carry your steam and CO out and you won't be sacrificing ALL the conditioned air from the rest of the house.

YMMV, don't hold me accountable.

Well, if there were a prize, Bobby would win for describing what I have in mind exactly. I have a HUGE stainless overhead vent from a former tenant who vacated one of my rentals and left it behind. I guess he was only able to handle a few plants at a time. Thank God. It's got about a 12 inch discharge so I can put a fairly hefty CFM fan in there to move some air. The intake will be passive and fed simply by the vacuum of the hood. I was thinking more of a 3 or 4 inch cold air return instead of 8 inch. That will be plenty of movement I think.

I should cover a few points to lay some issues to rest.

1. I don't have any sort of combustion in my house. The Banjo Burner would be the first. I live in the country so there is no natural gas and I heat with a geothermal heat pump. There is no ignition source for pooled gas.

2. I had a wicked flood in the basement this summer and had to completely gut it. I'll rebuild the basement to suit my (her) needs and that means accounting for a point source of combustion. It's true that a fire that is attributed to my burner would likely void my insurance, but I can design the space around the hazard and minimize the risk.

3. You guys are all right. It's not worth the risk. I freakin' hate the winters we get here and I've been doing stove top brews for too long. I want some guy space to do my brews year round. Yeah, I can brew in my garage but I actually work in there so it's pretty much the opposite of a sterile environment. I might find iron filings as likely as I'd find wood shavings in fermentor.

SWMBO isn't really comfortable with the idea either. She generally defers to my greater wisdom (bullsh!t) when I get a bug in my bonnet over something and waits for me to burn myself out before she intervenes with her womanly advise (told-you-so's), so I may give this a shot. I think the confined space meter that measures actual CO levels, and possibly volatile gases such as propane, would help solve some of those problems.

Or I could just brew a sh!tload and hope to coast through winter, but with only five kegs, two primaries, two secondaries and a nice large liver, the odds aren't good.

I think I'm hooked. Sounds like one for the 'You know you're not a nooby when...' thread.

:cross:

 

[Jaybird]

I know my descriptive abilities are limited, so I drew this up. Again this is only something stuck in the back of my often faulty memory, so I advise asking a professional. Maybe a fireplace installer would know for sure.

Another thought...The rising hot air would warm your kettle and possibly increase fuel efficiency.

this is what I did on my brew set up I set the kettle way down though and I did increase my EFF. expedently I now brew up to 5 batches on the same 5 gal propain tank also ( I didnt read the entire post but) why not go electric I did on my HLT and love it
JJ

 

[Sea]

Fingers,

I appreciate everyon's concern, but I feel alittle like I'm at a Big Brother convention with all the paranoia floating around. My folks, and many olther people I grew up with still cook indoors with propane (25+ yrs), year round, often with the equivelent of 100,000+ btu/hr consumption. No rpoblems, ever,......none.

Every resuarant I have ever been in or worked in (was a cook for some years) has exhaust hoods approx equal to the size of the burner area, with large fans. True, most are NG, and not LP, but as far as CO goes, these places are often running 500k to 1M btu/hr, with little or no intake air.

You really only have one real concern as I see it, assuming you brew under the aforementioned hood with the high CFM exhaust fan. As mentioned before, that is a propane leak.

You said you are going to build basement to suit, place your propane tank outside with a small insulated box around it (with a very thin opening around the base to let gas out) so that the tank wont freeze during discharge. Then, hardpipe a 3/4" steel gas line into the basement, to your burner, an have it checked wit a combustible gas meter.

Problem solved.

 

[FlyGuy]

You really only have one real concern as I see it, assuming you brew under the aforementioned hood with the high CFM exhaust fan. As mentioned before, that is a propane leak.

You said you are going to build basement to suit, place your propane tank outside with a small insulated box around it (with a very thin opening around the base to let gas out) so that the tank wont freeze during discharge. Then, hardpipe a 3/4" steel gas line into the basement, to your burner, an have it checked wit a combustible gas meter.

Problem solved.

I like this approach. OK, just thinking aloud now - you could even alleviate the other concerns by taking this a step further and build small/moderately-sized self-contained room in your basement just for your brewing. You could drywall it with green board or some vapour resistant material, and seal everything up well, then vent in a cold air feed (preferably low to the ground), and suck everything up and out your hood. Having a contained room means that you won't get heavy gasses creeping along the floor toward your furnace, even if they are being blown around by your burner. The cold-air coming into the room should also be offset by the heat radiating off the burner in the room, so that should no longer be a concern. You might even make a custom stand for the burner that is bolted down so that there is no chance of the burner tipping.

Anyways, just ideas. But now I am thinking that maybe I should consider doing something similar. I agree that it sure would be nice to move my keggle and burner indoors this winter, and not have to go back to using the stove and multiple pots.

 

[Bobby_M]

Sea, I totally agree with you but I also understand the tendency to er on the side of caution when you're chatting on a forum. I know I'd feel terrible if I made some assumptions on someone's ability to pull off one of my hairbrained schemes and later find that they've killed the whole family in an accident. I'm sure everyone knows the dangers of combustable gasses, fires, asphixiations, etc. We all have to weigh the pros and cons and decide what level of risk we're personally willing to take. My own natural gas connection is a death trap in many people's eyes. I appreciated the warnings and tips, some considered, some disregarded.

 

[Bobby_M]

If you're still considering doing this, I thought I'd ask if you really only plan on using a single burner indefinitely. Once you go all grain, the tendency is to use more and more burners. I may have all three kegs lit up for short periods on my single tier system (still building).

I do like the idea of closing off/isolating that area in the sense that you limit exposure to the rest of the house. The caveat there is that your fresh air intake will have to be upsized because you won't be borrowing any from the rest of the house. This is nothing new really since its standard when a furnace is closed into a small utility room. I'd want the total CFM of intake to equal or exceed the exhaust. If you have a 12" diameter fan, I'd use two 8" diameter intakes that end up down near the floor. You would also get a faster CO alarm in a smaller space if it became an issue. Put one inside the brew room and one outside. An alarm on the outside one is the queue to get the inhabitants out.

You might then consider lining the wall behind the system with something flame retardant. How about some galvanized sheet metal (cheaper than stainless).

I also like the idea of remote locating the propane. You could get away with a nice 100lb tank if you kept it outside. If you had to use the 20lb inside, I'd at least disconnect it and store it in the shed when not in use.

Finally, mount a nice large fire extinguisher to the outside wall of the brew room, pay your taxes, wear a cup, buckle up, brush your teeth, and visit the proctologist regularly if you're over 50.

 

[olllllo]

I'll rebuild the basement to suit my (her) needs...

Rebuild it above ground. Problem solved.

Seriously, this is a good discussion and I'm glad to see all of the potential (even if unlikely) pitfalls outlined as opposed to, "Oh, brewing in a basement, do this, this and this."

I threw the crack about the crematorium out there because most homebuyers would not understand a ventilation hood in a basement and that could affect your resale. If you don't have a plan to "fix" this when you put your house on the market, your might get known as the "boiler room house", etc.

At the AHA, one of the B3 reps (Chris Graham?)stated in one of his presentations that B3 would not "knowingly" sell anyone one of their systems if they knew it's intended operating environment was a basement. He did say that they might point to some "field experts" that would tell you what to do to go that route. You might want to call him.

Yea, he was just covering ass, but the point is that the answer lies somewhere between:

risky with very few mitigating steps
to
relatively safe with alot of safety measures.

 

[Fingers]

Good comments all. There are a few points I should clarify.

There is no ignition source for the propane to find along my basement floor. It may find a spark from the well pump or sewage pump, but it would have to get to a depth of 8 - 10 inches first. I'd smell the leaking gas long before that. In addition, there will be a sump hole in the brew room. The hole is three by three wide and about three deep as well. That's where the fumes will likely congregate. I'm thinking that would be a good spot to locate a fresh air intake. Keep the cold air from blowing all over my delicate little tootsies.

FlyGuy got it right about building a custom brew room. We have to start all over in finishing the basement so I will be building a room to suit. I can't say that I agree about sealing off a portion though. Whether there is a LP leak or CO buildup, I wouldn't want to be in a confined space. I'd rather the gas spread a thinner layer over the whole basement than the fill a sealed space to a greater depth. Remember, no pilot light to contact.

So now I'm wondering if the hood alone would be enough to exchange the air in the room and prevent build up. While not sealed, the room would still impede flow and I could size the blower to vacate the entire contents every x number of minutes. I think I have an old furnace squirrel cage fan sitting around somewhere. I disagree with Bobby in that I think an 8 inch return will more than keep up with the even a 12 inch exhaust. After all, we're talking about CFM and as long as there isn't too much drag I think even a four inch dryer vent will keep up with most exhaust fans. Nature abhors a vacuum. Even if the four inch vent doesn't keep up, it will draw from the rest of the basement and keep a negative pressure in the room. Either way, I get the desired results.

 

[zoebisch01]

I brew AG indoors on my Propane gas stovetop. I have a downdraft blower. It is actually really nice in the winter. Warmth and humidity. Pushes back the dry cold winter . I have a CO/fire alarm and it has never gone off. The windows get a little wet but that gets reabsorbed into the air fairly quickly in the winter.

 

[srm775]

Fingers,

I appreciate everyon's concern, but I feel alittle like I'm at a Big Brother convention with all the paranoia floating around. My folks, and many olther people I grew up with still cook indoors with propane (25+ yrs), year round, often with the equivelent of 100,000+ btu/hr consumption. No rpoblems, ever,......none.

Every resuarant I have ever been in or worked in (was a cook for some years) has exhaust hoods approx equal to the size of the burner area, with large fans. True, most are NG, and not LP, but as far as CO goes, these places are often running 500k to 1M btu/hr, with little or no intake air.

I'm not sure if I'm jumping in here prematurely, but Propane is no more dangerous than natural gas. Don't forget, there are MILLIONS of homes that heat and cook with propane gas. My father's hunting camp is heated, lit and cooking is done with propane and wood. The forklifts and moving vechicles you see at big-box stores (lowes, home depot, walmart) are all powered by propane cylinders.

I brewed all-grain with full boils on my 280,000 btu propane turkey fryers for a number of years in my basement and never had a problem. I had a garden basement (only partially underground), I set my fryer right underneath a window, place my $15 window fan in the window and turned it on high, cracked a window slightly on the opposite side of the house and brew away. So long as the flame on your burner is completely blue, you're using up all the propane and creating very little CO. Have some exhaust and fresh air intake and you should be fine.

 

[olllllo]

I'm not sure if I'm jumping in here prematurely, but Propane is no more dangerous than natural gas. Don't forget, there are MILLIONS of homes that heat and cook with propane gas. My father's hunting camp is heated, lit and cooking is done with propane and wood. The forklifts and moving vechicles you see at big-box stores (lowes, home depot, walmart) are all powered by propane cylinders.

I brewed all-grain with full boils on my 280,000 btu propane turkey fryers for a number of years in my basement and never had a problem. I had a garden basement (only partially underground), I set my fryer right underneath a window, place my $15 window fan in the window and turned it on high, cracked a window slightly on the opposite side of the house and brew away. So long as the flame on your burner is completely blue, you're using up all the propane and creating very little CO. Have some exhaust and fresh air intake and you should be fine.

Ugh. It's that guy again

Just kidding, srm775. Thanks for sharing. I'm just reflecting on the rash of single issue one post accounts lately. Welcome BTW.

 

[olllllo]

I'm not sure if I'm jumping in here prematurely, but Propane is no more dangerous than natural gas. Don't forget, there are MILLIONS of homes that heat and cook with propane gas. My father's hunting camp is heated, lit and cooking is done with propane and wood. The forklifts and moving vechicles you see at big-box stores (lowes, home depot, walmart) are all powered by propane cylinders.

I agree with some of your points however we are looking at a difference in scale here. Forklifts used in big-box stores are in warehouse environments (ventalation, high celings, spacious) If fingers had that type of a basement, well he'd have no problems even if he brewed over a bonfire.

 

[srm775]

I agree with some of your points however we are looking at a difference in scale here. Forklifts used in big-box stores are in warehouse environments (ventalation, high celings, spacious) If fingers had that type of a basement, well he'd have no problems even if he brewed over a bonfire.

How'd you get that picture of me? I rarely where my "propane" t-shirt anymore.

My point was really that many people still cook, indoors, with propane and it's not a problem. Whether it's in their stove and on their range, or in the basement with a window open, I really don't see that it would be a huge problem.

 

[FlyingHorse]

I'm not sure if I'm jumping in here prematurely, but Propane is no more dangerous than natural gas.

I don't think anyone's arguing against the use of propane; if you're using it on an appliance designed for indoor use, with proper hard-line plumbing from an outdoor storage tank (just like you would with NG), no problem.

I think the precautions are being given against using a burner designed for outdoor use, and (especially) storing and using a 20-lb portable propane tank indoors...even the propane industry sites warn aganst this, and it's against he law in some places.

 

[AiredAle]

I brew with propane in my basement utility room, and have done so since 1985 without a propane-related incident. I close the utility room door, open the window across the room from the burner, and have a modified bathroom vent fan with a hood about 1 foot above the top of my keggle. The hood is an old plastic trash can lid, about 6 inches wider than the keggle. This works well enough that the females in the house don't complain of brewery smells. The dog doesn't seem to care. The hood over the keggle captures most of the water evaporated by boiling, and the water from propane combustion. I have cold water pipes running across the ceiling, and get a little condensation off them, but no worse than on a humid July day.

If you get good exchange of air in the room, you will keep the CO2 and H2O levels low. If you have good combustion, meaning lots of oxygen mixing with the propane during burning, you will have low, or no CO levels. Burning propane does not necessarily produce CO, any more than burning natural gas does, if adequate O2 is available for complete combustion.

My biggest concerns are: 1) a boilover that extinguishes the flame and lets unburnt propane woof out of the burner.... and 2) a leak in the regulator-hose-burner connections. If you are careful of these, you should be okay.

I would never run the big propane burners we use without positive ventilation to ensure removal of combustion byproducts and constant introduction of more oxygen into the room for the burner, and for me.

 

[woosterhoot]

I brew with homemade burner I made out of used oxy acetelyene torches and duct tape. I use it in my basement bathroom with the fan on though. Been doing it since 79.

 

[AiredAle]

woosterhoot, I have to assume your comment is directed at me. If you have some useful observation or comment, let's hear it, and we can debate it on a logical or factual basis. Otherwise, I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig.

 

[woosterhoot]

No my comment wasn't completely directed at you, at the time it was so funny because I was imagining a wanna be Red Green show type guy trying to make some of the things in the thread. I thing my point is using a outdoor burner with a temporary screw on connection inside is dumb. Not trying to hurt anyones feelings or anything. I don't know what your setup looks like and for all I know its completely safe. I just think that it could also be dangerous because someone who may not know as much as you do will try to set up a cob job bs system and kill themselves. Happy indoor brewing.