Imperial IPA - secondary fermentation?

[permo]

I am going to brew an imperial IPA soon. OG in the 1.085 range and IBU over 100...you know the deal.

I am wondering how i should ferment this thing. I am not going to dry hop it, I know that decision is controversial but I think by hopbursting I will get a more lasting hop flavor in the beer as I will likely have the cellar some of it. I plan on adding some sugar to the primary fermenter during the tail end of fermentation to help dry it out.

I am wondering if I can just go bucket to bottle with a beer of this nature? Maybe 3-4 weeks in primary with US-05 and bottle it? I would think with a simple grain bill that bulk aging to let flavors blend may not be an issue...but who knows. Suggestions on how to brew a big IPA would be welcomed for sure.


I know corn sugar is typically added to help lighten and dry out IIPA's...I wonder if I could just use clear inverted candi sugar instead? I have a ton of this stuff on hand.

 

[jacksonbrown]

I can't help you wit the candi sugar as I've never used it (although my guess would be that it would work the same). But as far as aging and such, a lot of folks on the forum don't bother with a secondary unless it's for dry hopping or adding fruit. I almost always age in a secondary, mostly out of habbit. But if you want to bottle after 3-4 weeks and just let it condition in said bottles, you'll be fine. There's really no difference. I actually prefer evtra bottle time for bigger beers since they might need a little extra time to reach the proper carbonation level. Cheers!

 

[permo]

That is what I was kind of planning on doing tentatively, 4 weeks primary and then bottle for three weeks and have a taste. I have an IPA (OG = 1.064) that I brewed five months ago and did a two week secondary fermentation with...and it is just now getting really good! These things take time I guess.

 

[jbay76]

Having just finished brewing 2 different types of imperial stouts, I think I may be able to lend some info on this subject.

As far as when to bottle the imperial stout, I brewed a Belgian Imperial Stout and after primary, I bottled it and let it bottle condition for a month before tasting it. It was delicous, and still is every time I open a bottle. My logic was two fold:
1) Does Sam Adams really age their imperial stouts for months before bottling them and shipping them out for sale......My conclusion still is " I doubt it!" Their stockholders would want them to get that out ASAP, and its a tasty brew.
2) Beer ages faster in bottles than in a fermentation vessel. So, once primary is complete, you should have no problems bottling it and allowing it to sit for a month or two before tasting it.

As for brewing a big IPA. My first recommendation is mash low, 148 to 149 (maybe even lower bu t don't drop below 145), and mash for 90-120 minutes to increase your efficiency. I have learned that I can gain an extra 5% mash efficiency by extending the mash by 30 mins. You'll also need to use a yeast strain that is very tolerant of high alcohol levels..maybe WLP099 or WLP007 and ferment in mid 60's to minimize hot alcohols from being produced. And use a big starter and inect pure 02 in your wort before pitching the yeast. yeast selection and quantity will most likely affect your results as yeast can only ferment so much until the alcohol content of the beer adversely affects their performance.

I would give these two suggestions a try and if it doesn't get you where you want to be, try adding some candi sugar. Maybe do a smaller batch, say 3 gallons, first as well.

My two cents...

J

 

[permo]

Having just finished brewing 2 different types of imperial stouts, I think I may be able to lend some info on this subject.

As far as when to bottle the imperial stout, I brewed a Belgian Imperial Stout and after primary, I bottled it and let it bottle condition for a month before tasting it. It was delicous, and still is every time I open a bottle. My logic was two fold:
1) Does Sam Adams really age their imperial stouts for months before bottling them and shipping them out for sale......My conclusion still is " I doubt it!" Their stockholders would want them to get that out ASAP, and its a tasty brew.
2) Beer ages faster in bottles than in a fermentation vessel. So, once primary is complete, you should have no problems bottling it and allowing it to sit for a month or two before tasting it.

As for brewing a big IPA. My first recommendation is mash low, 148 to 149 (maybe even lower bu t don't drop below 145), and mash for 90-120 minutes to increase your efficiency. I have learned that I can gain an extra 5% mash efficiency by extending the mash by 30 mins. You'll also need to use a yeast strain that is very tolerant of high alcohol levels..maybe WLP099 or WLP007 and ferment in mid 60's to minimize hot alcohols from being produced. And use a big starter and inect pure 02 in your wort before pitching the yeast. yeast selection and quantity will most likely affect your results as yeast can only ferment so much until the alcohol content of the beer adversely affects their performance.

I would give these two suggestions a try and if it doesn't get you where you want to be, try adding some candi sugar. Maybe do a smaller batch, say 3 gallons, first as well.

My two cents...

J

I just did some thinking and I think I am going to use Rogue's Pacman yeast for this one. From what I understand this yeast is highly attenuative and tolerant of alcohol. I will ferment this at 60-62 degrees over the course of 3-4 weeks.

I think I am going to go with the candi sugar. Many recipes say to use table sugar...well that is what the candi sugar is before it is inverted and hardened!

 

[jbay76]

Right on. Who makes the rogue Pac man yeast? Wyeyeast? How much sugar (% grian bill) do you intend to add to the recipe? What hops do you intend to use?

 

[david_42]

AVAILABLE JANUARY THRU MARCH 2010

Wyeast 1764-PC ROGUE Pacman Yeast

This is one situation where I'd consider a secondary. Candi can be a bit of a pain to dissolve, so you need to be able to stir it in.

 

[permo]

Here is what I decided on for a recipe. I know...the hop schedule looks awesome! I plan on cellaring this, so there won't be a dry hop. I am trying for maximum hop flavor, hence all the 0-30 minute additions. I hope chinook and cascade work well together.


I just bought 4# of dextrose so I think I will use that..and add to primary after maltose fermentation starts to wind down.

Type: All Grain
Date: 1/9/2010
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Brewer: CP
Boil Size: 8.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00


Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
15.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 84.46 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2.82 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2.82 %
0.38 lb Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 2.14 %
0.38 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 2.14 %
1.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (60 min) Hops 69.3 IBU
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (30 min) Hops 12.8 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (30 min) Hops 5.4 IBU
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (15 min) Hops 8.3 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (10 min) Hops 6.0 IBU
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (5 min) Hops 3.3 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 1.4 IBU
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 lb Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 5.63 %


Est Original Gravity: 1.083 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.12 % Bitterness: 112.7 IBU


I am going to mash at 149 and let it sit for 2 hours in the mash tun. I am hoping for max fermentability.

 

[Bensiff]

I see no reason to not add the sugar in your boil. You do not have nearly enough sugar to worry about yeast being selective in sugars they will consume and your gravity is not high enough to worry about osmotic shock. My last iipa had 1.25 lb corn sugar and it fermented perfectly. My Belgian strong golden bulk conditioning right now has 2 lb corn sugar with a 1.080 SG and 1.010 FG. Adding it in your fermenter only adds possible problems such as an avenue for infection.

 

[permo]

I see no reason to not add the sugar in your boil. You do not have nearly enough sugar to worry about yeast being selective in sugars they will consume and your gravity is not high enough to worry about osmotic shock. My last iipa had 1.25 lb corn sugar and it fermented perfectly. My Belgian strong golden bulk conditioning right now has 2 lb corn sugar with a 1.080 SG and 1.010 FG. Adding it in your fermenter only adds possible problems such as an avenue for infection.

That sure simplifies things then.......maybe I should up the corn sugar?

 

[BA_from_GA]

If you're not dry hoping, i don't see any real need for a secondary.

I'd use the candy sugar. just boil it in a little water for 10 min or so to sanitize/sterilize/kill-everything, let it cool and dump it in there.

just my $.02

 

[permo]

If you're not dry hoping, i don't see any real need for a secondary.

I'd use the candy sugar. just boil it in a little water for 10 min or so to sanitize/sterilize/kill-everything, let it cool and dump it in there.

just my $.02

I did that with my barley wine and it seemed to really help dry it out and there was no infection. I may do the same with this one.

 

[Bensiff]

You will get the same drying effect from the sugar whether you put it in the fermentation vessel or during the boil, either way it is still just sugar. If you put it during the boil you just saved yourself the hassle of sanitizing something to put into the fermenter at a later date.

Permo, I go around 10% corn sugar on my big IPA's. For my taste that level dries it out enough for the style while keeping enough malt backbone around for "balance."

 

[permo]

I think I am going to go with 1.5 pound corn sugar, to go along with 15# base malt. That is a lot of fermentables assuming good efficiency. That puts me at about 10% sugar as well.

I know a key to the IIPA style is drinkability, so low final gravity and a lighter body are important.

 

[FreeM80s]

I am making my first IIPA in about 2 weeks. I am also using pacman yeast, it is going to town on a PA right now that im gonna use the cake for

 

[permo]

I am making my first IIPA in about 2 weeks. I am also using pacman yeast, it is going to town on a PA right now that im gonna use the cake for

Are you going to use some corn sugar? I am almost %100 positive that I am going to add them to the primary fermenter incrementally after the primary maltose based fermenation dies down. I am going to add 1# at a time twice, dissolved in hot/sterilized water and then cooled.

I am really hoping that this, in addition to the pacman yeat cake, really attenuate this beer well.

 

[FreeM80s]

Are you going to use some corn sugar?

Yea I am going to use about 1# of dextrose. I am probably just going to throw it in at boil though. I went with the pacman hoping it would not stall but i got some champagne yeast in case...

 

[permo]

I am going to add a pound of corn sugar two times, for a total of two pounds. 1 after 3 days and the other after that fermentation slows. I think incrementally adding the sugar will help encourage attenuation.

I am going to hit 1.090 or so on my OG, and am hoping to get it below 1.020.....for a nice big IIPA

 

[FreeM80s]

I am going to add a pound of corn sugar two times, for a total of two pounds. 1 after 3 days and the other after that fermentation slows. I think incrementally adding the sugar will help encourage attenuation.

I am going to hit 1.090 or so on my OG, and am hoping to get it below 1.020.....for a nice big IIPA

So how's it looking so far? I brewed mine this weekend and got a little carried away : OG 1.110 IBU:134. I am already looking forward to having one of these some time around july...

 

[permo]

So how's it looking so far? I brewed mine this weekend and got a little carried away : OG 1.110 IBU:134. I am already looking forward to having one of these some time around july...

Well it is going great! My OG was around 1.091, the beer is still in the primary fermenter at 60 degrees. I haven't checked the gravity for a week, but my last measurement was 1.012....so the rogue yeast fermented long and cool is a beast! I also think that the incremental sugar additions were key in the attenuation. I have around 100 IBU and %10 ABV. I think I am going to bottle it this thursday after 3 weeks in the primary. No dry hop. I just hope it isn't too dry. It would't suprise me if the pacman dropped it another few points and it finishes at 1.010 or less. sheesh!