I'm tired of losing a gallon of beer during fermentation!

[jammin]

Guess I'll start fermentations in my basement from now on as well. Ambient temp will be averaging about 55 degrees. I'm not in a rush to drink my beer so don't mind if a 15 day fermentation turns into a 30 day one due to the lower temperature.

This is great info

Yeast driven beers can suffer from starting the ferment too cool. The initial phase of fermentation is where all the character is derived. Getting a bigger fermenting vessel is the solution to saving your blown-off beer. I'd rather have 4.5 gallons of flawless beer than 5 gallons of "OK" to "good" beer.

I question all these folks who "never get blowoffs" in standard settings (6/6.5 carboy and 5.5g batches of 1.055+ beer.

 

[unionrdr]

That's because cooler ferment temps aren't as vigorous at initial fermentation start as warmer ones. Even at 66F start of initial fermentation,I don't always need a blow off. And it def doesn't have to be a big beer to have a huge blow off. Idk how many darn times I have to say it. It's the wort temp & quality of the yeast at pitch time. Also the temperature differential between the rehydrated or starter yeast & wort temperature.

 

[Aschecte]

also just a fyi some strains no matter how big your carboy will blow off they are just busy little yeast that get really excited. @ uniondr i've never lost a significant amount but a good .25 gal should be anticipated Finally for those of you who don;t already use it mr.malty.com is the shiznat.

 

[high5apparatus]

I brew all my batches to end with 5.75 gallons.

 

[241]

+1 to fermcap. You get the most boring starters and fermentations

 

[kombat]

+1 to fermcap. You get the most boring starters and fermentations

Does Fermcap adversely affect head retention in the finished beer?

 

[SoonerDoc]

also just a fyi some strains no matter how big your carboy will blow off they are just busy little yeast that get really excited. @ uniondr i've never lost a significant amount but a good .25 gal should be anticipated Finally for those of you who don;t already use it mr.malty.com is the shiznat.

Hefe's are usually my most violent fermenters and I don't know that I've ever lost 1/4 gallon. That's quite a bit of loss. I rarely lose anything out the airlock. At worst my blow-off tube has filled with krausen. Clean it out once or twice and that's it.

 

[F250]

+1 to the Fermcap. It's a liquid anti-foaming agent that's also good for eliminating hot break boil overs. Food safe, odorless, tasteless, settles into your trub.

Since i've been using it, i've never had a krausen peak over 1" in my 7 gallon plastic buckets, even on oxygenated high gravity beers. No need for a blowoff tube, I just use airlocks with grain alcohol in them.

It seriously works when you use 2 drops per gallon. It must be refrigerated so make sure if you buy it from your LHBS that it comes out of a fridge.

Fermcap. Don't brew at home without it.

No doubt, cool pitching temp and Fermcap-S = no blow up, FTW!

Rick

 

[F250]

Does Fermcap adversely affect head retention in the finished beer?

No.

Rick

 

[241]

Supposedly it settles out. I use less than the recommended amount and still have very mild or boring fermentations. Always use a blowoff just in case for the first few days

 

[Nashbrewer]

You could try something like this: http://www.byo.com/stories/article/...self/354-build-a-burton-union-system-projects

 

[unionrdr]

I'm begining to think that's where the blow off originated from. Here's the link I have from beersmith; http://beersmith.com/blog/2009/10/10/better-beer-with-the-burton-union-blow-off-method/

 

[WileECoyote]

adamjackson on most of my beers, I start my fermentation at 70 to 75 deg till I have some activity, then I put them in the swamp cooler and drop the temp down to 62 deg, this method gives the yeast a good start and lets you control/regulate the fermentation temps, since I started doing this, I have had very good results with my brews.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

 

[RM-MN]

adamjackson on most of my beers, I start my fermentation at 70 to 75 deg till I have some activity, then I put them in the swamp cooler and drop the temp down to 62 deg, this method gives the yeast a good start and lets you control/regulate the fermentation temps, since I started doing this, I have had very good results with my brews.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

According to White Labs the lag phase is where off flavors develop and they suggest you start your yeast at the temperature you intend to ferment at. You probably should cool the wort more and accept the longer lag phase.

 

[unionrdr]

I wonder about that. The lag phase is when the yeast cells are reproducing before visible fermentation begins. Initial fermentation is so rapid,this phase seems the more likely for producing off flavors to me. It's more vigorous than the reproductive phase to my thinking/observations.

 

[tmoney645]

Edited

 

[pabloj13]

55 degrees ambient may be too low, depending on the wort temperature when pitching. This might be the time to consider putting your fermenter in a tub of water with an adjustable aquarium heater so you can keep the fermenting beer in the proper temperature range so your yeast don't go dormant on you. Also to note is that once the initial ferment slows, you can bring the temperature up to encourage the yeast to complete the ferment. If you don't you can get a stuck ferment which will lead to bottle bombs if you bottle.

This. This is the way to go. Ferment in your basement in a $5 rope tub of water. Add a cheap aquarium heater set to the low 60s and you can hold the perfect temp. I wouldn't need a fermentation chamber (for ales) if I had a basement that temp. That is PERFECT temp. Basically during active fermentation the heater probably won't need to run at all and when fermentation slows, the heater will keep the yeast from petering out.

 

[pabloj13]

I wonder about that. The lag phase is when the yeast cells are reproducing before visible fermentation begins. Initial fermentation is so rapid,this phase seems the more likely for producing off flavors to me. It's more vigorous than the reproductive phase to my thinking/observations.

I don't think most vigorous equates to most susceptible to off-flavors. It's pretty widely accepted that the reproduction/lag phase is the worst time to be over temp. That being said I'm not sure I've ever seen someone really compare them.

 

[unionrdr]

It'd be interesting to find out which phase really can do the most harm with off temps,etc.

 

[latencymachine]

I know that WLP001 tries to go crazy with blowoff if I use any corn sugar in the bill.

Also, I totally agree with the previous replies that suggest checking your temperature. How exactly are you concluding what your fermentation temperature is? Thermowell/probe inside the fermenter? Probe on the exterior? Exterior stick-on thermo? House thermostat in the next room?

I use a chest freezer with one of those $20 ebay China controllers with its probe attached to the carboy with a bit of foam insulation. Then whenever I take a status peek I use a non-contact thermometer to check the carboy exterior temperature in several places, then adjust the controller a bit. I eventually want to have a probe down in the fermenting beer.

I'm from the camp that believes ale blow off is generally a good thing. Of course you can have too much of a good thing! To me the krausen 'amplitude' is an important part of the brewing process feedback to the brewer. I think you should prefer to avoid surfactants/anti-foam agents for at least this reason. Surfactants tend to be a symptom fix.

Even though it sounds like you are having success with the 6.5g carboy (that's all I've ever used), you should still check further into the temperature thing. I used to ferment in a rope-tub of water and wet shirt and while it worked pretty good, I eventually learned that this wasn't cutting it during the early ferment.

Lastly, I do recall years ago a big Imperial Stout that I pitched onto the yeast cake still in the carboy (6.5g) from a 60-ish batch. This was before I had a freezer to ferment in. The lag time was so short that it took off while I was still cleaning up my gear and farting around. There was already yeast in the airlock by the time I noticed, so I put it on the back porch hoping that that cooler night time temps would help put the brakes on. It ended up blowing the airlock clean off. Yeast was caked down the side and bottom of the carboy. Even after rigging up a blowoff tube into a 1g bucket, I got about another 2 quarts of yeast/trub blown off. Here comes the point of my story -- somehow, magically, my beer volume didn't decrease a significant amount. I have calibrated volume marks on my carboy. Come kegging time, I still got a full keg. Crazy yeast!

 

[unionrdr]

I don't think most vigorous equates to most susceptible to off-flavors. It's pretty widely accepted that the reproduction/lag phase is the worst time to be over temp. That being said I'm not sure I've ever seen someone really compare them.

It's my understanding that the temp of the rehydrated dry yeast I use should be within 10 degrees of the wort temp to keep from shocking the yeast. Starters should be about the same temp for like reasons. This would effect the strength of the yeasts' cell walls going into the wort. Thats how the temp thing relates to lag time to me.

 

[F250]

It's my understanding that the temp of the rehydrated dry yeast I use should be within 10 degrees of the wort temp to keep from shocking the yeast. Starters should be about the same temp for like reasons. This would effect the strength of the yeasts' cell walls going into the wort. Thats how the temp thing relates to lag time to me.

I've been using the 10 degree maximum temp differential with re-hydrated yeast myself, it obviously works well. I noticed the other day that in the Yeast book by White & Zainasheff they say not to exceed 15 degrees, 10 is just a little safer yet.

Rick

 

[pabloj13]

It's my understanding that the temp of the rehydrated dry yeast I use should be within 10 degrees of the wort temp to keep from shocking the yeast. Starters should be about the same temp for like reasons. This would effect the strength of the yeasts' cell walls going into the wort. Thats how the temp thing relates to lag time to me.

I think it's best to rehydrate at the manufacturer's recommended temp. By the time you are ready to pitch, it's going to have cooled significantly anyway. There's a reason they recommend that temp (and it's not because they think people will be pitching into wort at 80-90 degrees).

 

[unionrdr]

I think it's best to rehydrate at the manufacturer's recommended temp. By the time you are ready to pitch, it's going to have cooled significantly anyway. There's a reason they recommend that temp (and it's not because they think people will be pitching into wort at 80-90 degrees).

That's not what I was refering to. it was to the previous discussion above about initial fermentation vs reproductive phase making more 0ff flavors. I was giving my opinion on that,not rehydrate temps.
And it doesn't cool down that fast on it's own. It won't cool down from 90F to 75 or 80 in 30 minutes in a pyrex measuring cup. I'd have to use a small ice bath or something.

 

[pabloj13]

That's not what I was refering to. it was to the previous discussion above about initial fermentation vs reproductive phase making more 0ff flavors. I was giving my opinion on that,not rehydrate temps.
And it doesn't cool down that fast on it's own. It won't cool down from 90F to 75 or 80 in 30 minutes in a pyrex measuring cup. I'd have to use a small ice bath or something.

I think you'd be surprised how quickly it cools down.

 

[unionrdr]

Mine doesn't,& my house is rather cool this time of year. That pyrex covered with plastic wrap holds some heat for 30 minutes.

 

[WileECoyote]

According to White Labs the lag phase is where off flavors develop and they suggest you start your yeast at the temperature you intend to ferment at. You probably should cool the wort more and accept the longer lag phase.

Guess I should have stated that Im using dry yeast on most of my brews, and what I am doing is actually following the directions recommended on the yeast packs for pitching directly.

I have a hard time getting liquid yeast that hasn't been cooked in a big brown kettle with tires here in summer time, so Im used to just using dry yeast, but recently we made a 2hr drive to the closest LHBS and purchased some liquid yeast, I have read your post and the ones after yours, and I will be using the great information and suggestions given here on pitching/fermentation temps when using liquid yeast.

Thanks everyone, This place is great.

Cheers

 

[Aschecte]

Guess I should have stated that Im using dry yeast on most of my brews, and what I am doing is actually following the directions recommended on the yeast packs for pitching directly.

I have a hard time getting liquid yeast that hasn't been cooked in a big brown kettle with tires here in summer time, so Im used to just using dry yeast, but recently we made a 2hr drive to the closest LHBS and purchased some liquid yeast, I have read your post and the ones after yours, and I will be using the great information and suggestions given here on pitching/fermentation temps when using liquid yeast.

Thanks everyone, This place is great.

Cheers

I just read through most of your posts foward. I can actually chime in from a microbiology standpoint and give reasons pro and con. First dry or liquid makes zero difference accept dry has a higher cell count than liquid. You have less options with dry yeast for strain availability. Off flavors are produced during the adaptive and reproductive stage where most yeast will give off phenols and esters off flavors can also be produced with higher temps where more phenols will be produced. Some strains like it hot ie. saison. You should always rehydrate below 90 degrees and within a few degrees of fermentation temps to reduce shock and possible reduced count and increase lag times. You should do what your doing the other way around start at a lower temp and keep it consistent so you get a balanced yeast flavor profile and keep the yeast away from the what just happened moment when it comes to temps. Some strains benefit from a slow ramp in temp about a degree or so a day up. Hope this made sense. Great resources are yeast by jamil Zainasheff or if you got the time and dime UC Davis or homebrewers association correspondence schooling.

Btw way I would look at the dry or liquid yeast "instruction" as a handshake of how to do it they are very broad as they don't know exactly what you are making as well they are more concerned about a fast ferment and the visual aspect than the flavor aspect. Everyone is happy when they see airlock a move in 5 hours but faster doesn't mean better results.

 

[unionrdr]

Most say to rehydrate between 90-105F. Cooler temps,like 70-75F don't produce much of a cream. Kinda dead lookin most of the time. 80-85F was better,as they produced some seroius creams at 2C or less that foamed up high & thick. 90F was the highes & thickest,but I didn't get it's temp down to within 10 dgrees of the wort,which was 66F. Gunna cut the hydrate temp down to 80F to get closer to wort temps. The rehydrate worked pretty good at that temp anyway.

 

[WileECoyote]

Aschecte, Thanks for the info, living here in Arizona, I use 3724 saison yeast quite a bit in the summer and your are right it definitely needs heat to keep fermenting, I start it at 70 and ramp the temps a few deg every day until 85 deg using 3724, and that seems to work great, no more stuck fermentations since I started ramping temps with that yeast.

Cheers