I'm on the verge of converting! Questions!

[worlddivides]

Hi guys, I've been majorly into beer for at least 15 years now and majorly into sour beers for at least 12 years now. I started homebrewing about 2 years ago, but I haven't brewed any sour beers yet, mainly because of everything people have said about them contaminating equipment and you needing to have two sets of equipment for regular beers and for sours, and also because of the long periods of time it takes before they're ready to drink.

But, since my favorite style of beer is a toss up between West-Cost IPAs and Lambics (or maybe even Flanders Red Ales), I've been lately really leaning towards doing a sour ale. I've been looking at different styles I could do and playing around with the idea of maybe making a sour blonde, a Flanders red ale, or a spin-off of a Lambic.

So I was hoping you guys could push me over the edge.

I do have a few questions:
1. I've noticed that, with sour ales, some use just saccharomyces for the primary and then a sour yeast or bacteria for the secondary, while others use sour yeasts/bacteria for the primary (and then either no secondary or a different blend of sour yeasts/bacteria or a single strain for the secondary). Which is more common? How are they different?
2. I've noticed that some sour beers are aged as much as 3 years, while others are only aged 3 months. Why is this? What is the difference in taste? Are some grains more accepting than others? I don't really like waiting an entire year to see whether I have something good on my hands, but I have aged some non-sour ales (such as porters/stouts) for 6-8 months and I've aged a mead for 9 months (still aging) and a cider for 8-10 months.
3. I've read that during the secondary fermentation/aging, the beer should be stored in the 50s or 60s. What do people do in the summer time? What if there's no air conditioning and no basement? The weather where I live is pretty mild, but in the summer, it sometimes gets into the 80s and 90s. This hasn't been an issue for "regular" beers that are already bottled, but I believe sours are more temperamental.

I guess I'm just trying to convince myself to start making sour beers since they've always been among my favorite alcoholic beverages, but I'm unsure about a few things, most of all the contamination and length of time until they're ready to drink.

 

[worlddivides]

Any input on question #1?

I'm debating on whether to ferment 5-6 gallons with regular saccharomyces in my 30 liter Speidel or to try to make a 3-4 gallon batch and put it in one of my 5 gallon HDPE carboys with a sour blend.

Also, along with this, although a lot of brewers don't do secondary, I would imagine sour beers all require a secondary, so that they don't stay on the trub? In that case, how long is primary before transferring to secondary (assuming there are wild yeasts/bacteria in primary)? Or is it okay to leave a sour beer on the trub in primary for a much longer period than you would a regular beer (for example, 6-8 months? Or longer?)?

I have a few extra 5 gallon carboys I can devote to sours, but I'm unsure whether I should get a 6-7 gallon carboy for sours as well.

I've searched for the answers to these questions, but couldn't find any specific answers.

 

[NTexBrewer]

I'm not an expert but will try to answer your questions since nobody else is.

1. Using Sacc first and then bugs is usually the typical method. This usually will produce a little more complex beer. There are methods such a kettle souring where you sour the wort before you boil to achieve the degree of sourness and then add the Sacc yeast to ferment out.

2. Usually it is just the professional lambic brewers that age their beers for 3 years. I'm sure there are some home brewers that age lambics that long but I would guess most age their beers between 6 month and 1 year. It really comes down to your personal preference. If a beer has the level of funk/sour/ or both then bottle it!
It seems that you can really use any grains. The traditional lambic grain bill is Pilsner and unmalted wheat.

3. Ideally you want the secondary to be between 55 and 70 degrees. Warmer temperature will possibly funk or sour your beer faster. This should not stop you from trying but you may have to check on things more often or you may find that you are bottling quicker than someone that has more stable temperatures.

You really should not have to worry about trub. It is not a problem to ferment and then rack to a secondary for aging.

I would tried to find a simple recipe and give it a try. That will give you a baseline and then you can start experimenting and doing something different.

Here is a thread for a Russian River Temptation clone that I brewed and turned out well. The recipe process was very straight forward, easy to follow and produce good results.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=500143

Regarding contamination, usually plastic buckets, spigots, tubing etc is considered contaminated and can't be disinfected. Glass and metal can be disinfected.

Hope this helps.

 

[NTexBrewer]

For long term aging you want as little head space as possible. So if you have a 5 gallon carboy you will probably need about 5.25 to 5.5 gallons of beer to fill the carboy up to the neck.

The two current lambic brews I have are in 3 gallon plastic carboys. I brewed 4 gallon batches to make sure I had enough wort to fill the carboy. Did primary fermentation in a bucket and then transferred into the carboy.

Any input on question #1?

I'm debating on whether to ferment 5-6 gallons with regular saccharomyces in my 30 liter Speidel or to try to make a 3-4 gallon batch and put it in one of my 5 gallon HDPE carboys with a sour blend.

Also, along with this, although a lot of brewers don't do secondary, I would imagine sour beers all require a secondary, so that they don't stay on the trub? In that case, how long is primary before transferring to secondary (assuming there are wild yeasts/bacteria in primary)? Or is it okay to leave a sour beer on the trub in primary for a much longer period than you would a regular beer (for example, 6-8 months? Or longer?)?

I have a few extra 5 gallon carboys I can devote to sours, but I'm unsure whether I should get a 6-7 gallon carboy for sours as well.

I've searched for the answers to these questions, but couldn't find any specific answers.

 

[worlddivides]

So, is using Sacc first better? If so, that makes it easier on me, because then I can just use my Speidel 30 liter to do a 5-6 gallon batch and then transfer it to a 5 gallon secondary where I add the sour blend. I've just heard some people say that just Saccharomyces in the primary can eat up too many sugars and result in less funk and sourness.

I definitely agree with a simple first sour. I'm thinking of just doing a very basic blonde ale with less than 10 IBU (preferably closer to 5-7 IBU - maybe just 1 ounce of bittering hops) and just 2 types of grain (maybe pilsner as the base malt and some kind of wheat as the specialty grain). I had thought of using a clean cheap yeast like US-05 for the primary fermentation, but since that's such a dry yeast, I'm not sure if it'll eat too much sugar and not leave enough for significant sour flavor. I've heard good things about White Labs's Belgian Sour Blend, so I'm thinking of using that. I had been thinking of using it for a primary, but I really don't know a lot about how to handle all of this.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[NTexBrewer]

Can't say if one way is better than another but it is common to pitch Sacc first especially in your situation where you don't want to contaminate your conical.

Some techniques to create less fermentable wort for the Sacc is to mash higher or use a low attenuation yeast and cold crash to remove as much yeast as possible before you rack to secondary to add the sour blend.

Another technique to get a little more sourness/funk is to feed the wort some fermentable sugar such as LME/DME or some second runnings from a future brew. If you plan to do this you have to account for headspace.

I found Michael Tonsmeire's book "American Sour Beers" to be very informative. It gives pretty detailed information how different commercial breweries brew and sour their beers. There are many ways to do it!

Michael also has the website http://www.themadfermentationist.com which lists detailed accounts of him producing sours and a good recipe database.

 

[worlddivides]

Can't say if one way is better than another but it is common to pitch Sacc first especially in your situation where you don't want to contaminate your conical.

Some techniques to create less fermentable wort for the Sacc is to mash higher or use a low attenuation yeast and cold crash to remove as much yeast as possible before you rack to secondary to add the sour blend.

Another technique to get a little more sourness/funk is to feed the wort some fermentable sugar such as LME/DME or some second runnings from a future brew. If you plan to do this you have to account for headspace.

I found Michael Tonsmeire's book "American Sour Beers" to be very informative. It gives pretty detailed information how different commercial breweries brew and sour their beers. There are many ways to do it!

Michael also has the website http://www.themadfermentationist.com which lists detailed accounts of him producing sours and a good recipe database.

Thanks! I had actually seen "American Sour Beers" in stores and on Amazon for a while and been really interested in picking up. So I just bought it on Amazon. It should be here in a few days.

I also ordered a packet of Danstar Windsor ale yeast for the primary since I think it should have low enough attenuation to leave an adequate amount of sugars for the souring (I do really like my sours pretty sour).

I definitely agree that pitched Saccharomyces first is a better option since I don't really want to get a 7-9 gallon fermenter specifically just for sours when I could ferment them regularly, then transfer them to an 5 gallon specific to sours. That said, I did get a second bottling bucket for just sours. And I suppose that could work for fermenting as well.

Adding DME or LME before pitching the souring yeast/bacteria isn't something I'd considered, but that sounds like a good idea too.

 

[howamidriving]

Good call on picking up American Sour Beers. That book is such a great investment if you're going to get serious with sours.

I'll add a couple things I've learned I'm my somewhat limited experience making sours. You'll find that for a lot of things there's no clear cut right way to do things. Even among pro brewers you'll find wildly varying methods. It might be worthwhile to start experimenting by spilt batches into gallon jugs and seeing what get you close to the result you want.

 

[burninator]

I'll take a crack at these, based on my limited experience, and somewhat limited reading...

1. You can do this either way. My preference is to pitch a mixed culture from the start, including a strong bacterial culture. When doing this, mashing high is less important, since your bacteria and wild yeast are going to get started right away. If pitching a clean strain first, you'd want to boost your mash temp some (some sources recommend as much as 10 degrees F), so that there's plenty of food left when you pitch your mixed culture.

2. Part of this depends on the complexity of your culture. "Lambic" blends may contain organisms not commonly known for producing desirable flavors, but there are other yeasts and bacteria that metabolize those byproducts of fermentation to produce complex, delicious flavors and aromas. Some cultures might be more simple, and the grain/hop bills more enjoyable fresh. Berliners and saisons get shorter (3 month) fermentation times, as I use a simpler grain bill, mashed at lower temp, to produce sourness quickly.

3. If I'm doing a pale, saison-like beer, or a berliner/gose that I want to get good and sour, I'll plan it around those very hot spring and summer months. I ferment these with a simpler culture, and I don't let them age as long as some others. For a longer-term aging project, I try to keep it inside, where the temp is less prone to fluctuation. Higher temps may not be ideal for these fermentations, but those day/night and seasonal swings can cause stress for a culture that's already living on next to zero nutrients.

Hope that helps.

 

[worlddivides]

Good call on picking up American Sour Beers. That book is such a great investment if you're going to get serious with sours.

I'll add a couple things I've learned I'm my somewhat limited experience making sours. You'll find that for a lot of things there's no clear cut right way to do things. Even among pro brewers you'll find wildly varying methods. It might be worthwhile to start experimenting by spilt batches into gallon jugs and seeing what get you close to the result you want.

American Sour Beers arrived in the mail this morning and I've already read about 70 pages or so into it (including the forward and so on in that count). It's amazingly well-written and chock-full of useful info. I think this book has more easily-accessible info than any of the forums or blogs I've seen online. Props to Michael Tonsmeire (and props to NTexBrewer for giving me the push I needed to actually purchase a book I'd been eyeing for a while now).

I'll take a crack at these, based on my limited experience, and somewhat limited reading...

1. You can do this either way. My preference is to pitch a mixed culture from the start, including a strong bacterial culture. When doing this, mashing high is less important, since your bacteria and wild yeast are going to get started right away. If pitching a clean strain first, you'd want to boost your mash temp some (some sources recommend as much as 10 degrees F), so that there's plenty of food left when you pitch your mixed culture.

2. Part of this depends on the complexity of your culture. "Lambic" blends may contain organisms not commonly known for producing desirable flavors, but there are other yeasts and bacteria that metabolize those byproducts of fermentation to produce complex, delicious flavors and aromas. Some cultures might be more simple, and the grain/hop bills more enjoyable fresh. Berliners and saisons get shorter (3 month) fermentation times, as I use a simpler grain bill, mashed at lower temp, to produce sourness quickly.

3. If I'm doing a pale, saison-like beer, or a berliner/gose that I want to get good and sour, I'll plan it around those very hot spring and summer months. I ferment these with a simpler culture, and I don't let them age as long as some others. For a longer-term aging project, I try to keep it inside, where the temp is less prone to fluctuation. Higher temps may not be ideal for these fermentations, but those day/night and seasonal swings can cause stress for a culture that's already living on next to zero nutrients.

Hope that helps.

1. I think I'm going to try my first sour with just Saccharomyces for the primary, then a sour blend for the secondary. Then for my second sour, I might try a mix of Saccharomyces and Lactobacillus for the primary (since I do prefer the taste of lactic acid over acetic acid).

2. I'm a HUGE fan of Berliner Weisse and I had just read in the last few days that it can be made in a shorter length of time than most other sour styles (not sure if I never read that before this week or if I did and just forgot). I think I might want to try a Berliner Weisse for my second or third sour.

3. Interesting info/input. Thanks!

 

[Wayne1]

If you like Berliner Weisse and Gose, they can be made in a relatively short period of time.

Look into kettle souring. You should have a pH meter to make sure you hit the level of sour you want.

Essentially you will fill your kettle with wort, cool it to 110 F and add a pure culture of Lacto. Let it sit in the kettle at 110 F for 24-36 hours. Keep checking pH until you get what you want. Roughly 3.5 for Berliner, 3.75 for Gose. At that point you can bring the kettle up to 185 or boil to kill off the bugs. Add whatever hops you want and let it go for 10 minutes or so. Cool everything down and pitch in some US-05 or equal.

Everything should ferment out in 10-14 days and there you go.

 

[worlddivides]

If you like Berliner Weisse and Gose, they can be made in a relatively short period of time.

Look into kettle souring. You should have a pH meter to make sure you hit the level of sour you want.

Essentially you will fill your kettle with wort, cool it to 110 F and add a pure culture of Lacto. Let it sit in the kettle at 110 F for 24-36 hours. Keep checking pH until you get what you want. Roughly 3.5 for Berliner, 3.75 for Gose. At that point you can bring the kettle up to 185 or boil to kill off the bugs. Add whatever hops you want and let it go for 10 minutes or so. Cool everything down and pitch in some US-05 or equal.

Everything should ferment out in 10-14 days and there you go.

Thanks. That actually sounds pretty awesome. I might not try it out for a few months, but I definitely want to try that out for a Berliner Weisse.

So, just to be clear, this would enable me to make a Berliner Weisse with my regular beer fermentation equipment (i.e. no need to use my sour-specific equipment) with 100% of the sour fermentation done before the hop boil? Would that really enable me to make and bottle a German-style sour in the same amount of time it would take to make a regular non-sour ale? I've heard about "kettle souring" before, but I'd never heard any of the exact details of what it entails (and I haven't gotten to that point in my "American Sour Beers" book yet).

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Further source of great info, Milk the funk. They also have a facebook group that has a ton of great info every week from pro brewers and several great homebrewers. I've learned a ton just following their discussions on facebook. While some of the best threads get added to the wiki, not all of them do.

 

[Wayne1]

Thanks. That actually sounds pretty awesome. I might not try it out for a few months, but I definitely want to try that out for a Berliner Weisse.

So, just to be clear, this would enable me to make a Berliner Weisse with my regular beer fermentation equipment (i.e. no need to use my sour-specific equipment) with 100% of the sour fermentation done before the hop boil? Would that really enable me to make and bottle a German-style sour in the same amount of time it would take to make a regular non-sour ale? I've heard about "kettle souring" before, but I'd never heard any of the exact details of what it entails (and I haven't gotten to that point in my "American Sour Beers" book yet).

I tapped a Berliner Weisse on 3/4 that went into the fermenter 2/10. I took a little longer carbonating it to get the "prickly" mouthfeel I wanted.

Kettle souring requires no special equipment other than a way to keep the lacto infused wort at 110F for 24-36 hours and away from O2. My kettle is insulated so I just let it stay in there.

 

[worlddivides]

I tapped a Berliner Weisse on 3/4 that went into the fermenter 2/10. I took a little longer carbonating it to get the "prickly" mouthfeel I wanted.

Kettle souring requires no special equipment other than a way to keep the lacto infused wort at 110F for 24-36 hours and away from O2. My kettle is insulated so I just let it stay in there.

How do you keep it between 110 to 118F for so long? I mean, if the heat on the stove is off, no matter how insulated the kettle is, the temperature is still going to go down. Do you just keep periodically turning the heat on the stove on low to increase the temperature? I know Lactobacillus is active from around 59F and up but that it works most actively between 110F and 118F. I have a pretty normal brewing kettle, which keeps heat relatively well when the lid is on, but definitely not a steady heat for 24 to 36 hours.

Any secrets about how to do this?

 

[christyle]

I love sours, and have attempted a couple. I've read a decent amount on here, so I will regurgitate some and hope it runs true.

1. The general thinking I've picked up is that souring flavors are like yeast esters really: You stress them to get the most of them. If you ferment down to 1.010 and then pitch bugs, they have to work for that food and can kick out some seriously sour flavors still. I had these questions when I had a failed sour mash berliner I decided to sour. It went down to 1.001 more or less, then I started pitching bottle dregs and it's really coming into it's own. People had recommended adding less fermentable things like Lactose or Malto dextrin because if you do a 2 stage fermentation (sacch/wild) there is still Sacch in there that can possibly overtake the souring bugs and get to the LME/DME first. I didn't add anything to it for about 4-5 months other than sour dregs. This also helps like you're saying, to separate wild from normal beers. I did a Kriek from More Beer that used Wyeast Rosellaire for the entire fermentation I think, and it never got the amount of tart I wanted, even in the bottle over a year later.

2. This is all up to the bugs and your personal preference. Sometimes things can move quickly, sometimes they don't. This is what makes sours into a tougher game, it isn't nearly as predictable. General consensus is that 6 months to a year will be necessary to get a good rounded out profile, and a decent amount of sour, but it's your preference too, what you like. m00ps on here swears by a method he's getting sours in a few months that are extremely tart, maybe pick his brain some. My "true" sours are taking about 6 months or so, as are most folks it seems. Like with other beers, it takes a pipeline really, stagger your starts to enjoy them over time.

3. I always try to keep them temperature controlled, as I do with all my beers. If you don't have temp control for your beers, I highly suggest you invest in it for any beer types, not just sours.

A few other tips from the other comments you mentioned...

A Berliner is a great first try you can do, I've done one on here a few times and it's great, my most requested beer. Takes 2-3 weeks, more if you put it on fruit. I use a cooler for mine, and wrapped it in a blanket. It does dip lower than optimal over time, but it's worked fairly well for me. I bought a $25 heating pad I'll wrap it in next time to help keep temps up. Also, I'm going to try throwing some dregs into it at the end of primary to give it another little facet of bite hopefully. My experiment i mentioned above picked up a good amount of sour character in the first week. For me, I'm not a big fan of Lacto sour, just gets too milky tasting at higher levels, so I make the berliner just a little tart and love it.

Hopefully these all help. Off to buy that book now too!

 

[Wayne1]

How do you keep it between 110 to 118F for so long? I mean, if the heat on the stove is off, no matter how insulated the kettle is, the temperature is still going to go down. Do you just keep periodically turning the heat on the stove on low to increase the temperature? I know Lactobacillus is active from around 59F and up but that it works most actively between 110F and 118F. I have a pretty normal brewing kettle, which keeps heat relatively well when the lid is on, but definitely not a steady heat for 24 to 36 hours.

Any secrets about how to do this?

I do not brew on a stove top. I would suggest possibly making something like an insulated fermenting chamber with either a light bulb or reptile heating pad and a temperature controller to keep it warm.

 

[madscientist451]

Skimmed over the thread didn't read every word, but the American Sour beers book is a great resource, also if someone hasn't already mentioned it, listen to all the episodes of the Sour Hour on the Brewing Network. The owner/brewer at the Rare Barrel in Berkeley, California pretty much tells you how he does it and has lots of great guests that freely give lots of great information. There are lots of little tricks/techniques I've learned by listening to that podcast. To me, the main difference between the sour beers that are aged 9 months-3 years and more quickly made sours is a harshness of the sour character. Everyone has different tastes, so you may agree/not agree or have your own preferences. The aged sours just have more of a depth of character and less harsh notes. Also most aged sour beers are a blend of many different barrels. Don't expect to make one carboy of a sour and have it taste like something that is blended after lengthy taste trials. If you've been drinking commercially available sour beers you should go with your own tastes. Try to make beers similar to the sours you like.
But I think the main thing is dive into it, the only way to learn is to just do it, so get started. Good Luck!

 

[worlddivides]

I love sours, and have attempted a couple. I've read a decent amount on here, so I will regurgitate some and hope it runs true.

1. The general thinking I've picked up is that souring flavors are like yeast esters really: You stress them to get the most of them. If you ferment down to 1.010 and then pitch bugs, they have to work for that food and can kick out some seriously sour flavors still. I had these questions when I had a failed sour mash berliner I decided to sour. It went down to 1.001 more or less, then I started pitching bottle dregs and it's really coming into it's own. People had recommended adding less fermentable things like Lactose or Malto dextrin because if you do a 2 stage fermentation (sacch/wild) there is still Sacch in there that can possibly overtake the souring bugs and get to the LME/DME first. I didn't add anything to it for about 4-5 months other than sour dregs. This also helps like you're saying, to separate wild from normal beers. I did a Kriek from More Beer that used Wyeast Rosellaire for the entire fermentation I think, and it never got the amount of tart I wanted, even in the bottle over a year later.

2. This is all up to the bugs and your personal preference. Sometimes things can move quickly, sometimes they don't. This is what makes sours into a tougher game, it isn't nearly as predictable. General consensus is that 6 months to a year will be necessary to get a good rounded out profile, and a decent amount of sour, but it's your preference too, what you like. m00ps on here swears by a method he's getting sours in a few months that are extremely tart, maybe pick his brain some. My "true" sours are taking about 6 months or so, as are most folks it seems. Like with other beers, it takes a pipeline really, stagger your starts to enjoy them over time.

3. I always try to keep them temperature controlled, as I do with all my beers. If you don't have temp control for your beers, I highly suggest you invest in it for any beer types, not just sours.

A few other tips from the other comments you mentioned...

A Berliner is a great first try you can do, I've done one on here a few times and it's great, my most requested beer. Takes 2-3 weeks, more if you put it on fruit. I use a cooler for mine, and wrapped it in a blanket. It does dip lower than optimal over time, but it's worked fairly well for me. I bought a $25 heating pad I'll wrap it in next time to help keep temps up. Also, I'm going to try throwing some dregs into it at the end of primary to give it another little facet of bite hopefully. My experiment i mentioned above picked up a good amount of sour character in the first week. For me, I'm not a big fan of Lacto sour, just gets too milky tasting at higher levels, so I make the berliner just a little tart and love it.

Hopefully these all help. Off to buy that book now too!

Thanks for the info.

1. It definitely seems like there are a ton of things you do for sour beers that are absolute no-nos for regular beers. In fact, a lot of the things you are supposed to do for sour beers are practically the opposite of the things you do for regular beers.

2. That seems to be the consensus. In fact, it's one of the reasons I haven't actually made any sour beers yet. The time, the effort, the randomness/wildness, and so on. I've got two sours planned right now. I imagine I'll like them since there have been very few sour beers I haven't liked, but it seems hard to guess how exactly they'll turn out.

3. What do you have in mind? I live in an apartment, so I don't have the space or freedom to build a huge walk-in refrigerator or to build a spacious basement (and even if I did have a house, virtually zero houses in California have basements). I've been very, very, very meticulous in my temperature control for each batch of beer that I'm fermenting. But once fermentation has been finished for a while, I stop doing any temperature control. For standard beers, that involves roughly 2-4 weeks. That length of time isn't a problem managing temperature control, but 6-12 months is simply not manageable. For the beer I had in the fermenter for the longest time, I had it strictly temperature-controlled throughout its entire primary fermentation (about 3 weeks), then for about 2 weeks of its secondary fermentation, then I left it at room temperature until I bottled it, and I've never done temperature control on anything once it's bottled. I have a "Cool Brewing" insulated fermentation bag that I've been using for about 2 years now that works very, very well for temperature control (at least for cold temperatures).

I designed a recipe for a Berliner Weisse with an estimated OG of 1.032, an estimated SRM of 2.1, an estimated IBU of 9, and an estimated ABV of 3.4%. I already bought all the ingredients, so I'll probably actually make that with the kettle souring method before I start on my sour blonde ale that I'll ferment for 6+ months.

Just gotta figure out how to keep the temperature of the wort between 110 and 118 for 24-36 hours...

I do not brew on a stove top. I would suggest possibly making something like an insulated fermenting chamber with either a light bulb or reptile heating pad and a temperature controller to keep it warm.

Unfortunately, that's not an option since I live in an apartment. My brewing/fermentation equipment already takes up a ton of space. On the one hand, my wife would probably go crazy if I tried to drastically increase the space used up. On the other hand, I couldn't even do that if I wanted to because the space just doesn't exist.

 

[Agate]

How do you keep it between 110 to 118F for so long? I mean, if the heat on the stove is off, no matter how insulated the kettle is, the temperature is still going to go down. Do you just keep periodically turning the heat on the stove on low to increase the temperature? I know Lactobacillus is active from around 59F and up but that it works most actively between 110F and 118F. I have a pretty normal brewing kettle, which keeps heat relatively well when the lid is on, but definitely not a steady heat for 24 to 36 hours.



Any secrets about how to do this?

So here's the secret to a quick sour... Get some omega yeast OYL-605 online (pm me if you can't find a retailer), no hops in the wort, 1-liter starter one day before you brew, and pitch once you've chilled to 100°F. No need to purge with CO2, you should be at ph 3.2-3.5 within 18 hours or so. No need to maintain heat, it sours best at 60-70°F. Done this a dozen times, it's amazingly simple.

If you want, I'd be glad to talk you through it if needed. Really, it's a surprisingly easy process.

 

[christyle]

I see on the ferm chamber issue, I'm unsure how heat affects souring for the aging process. I have an 11 cu ft chest freezer I usually set to 70 or so when I don't have anything else but an aging sour.

Agate has a very interesting method I've not heard of, I'm interested in checking it out.

 

[worlddivides]

I see on the ferm chamber issue, I'm unsure how heat affects souring for the aging process. I have an 11 cu ft chest freezer I usually set to 70 or so when I don't have anything else but an aging sour.

Agate has a very interesting method I've not heard of, I'm interested in checking it out.

Well, where I live the ambient temperature in my apartment is generally 70 or lower most of the year, so the only season that is problematic is summer. And, even then, most days are in the mid to low 70s. But there are some days that do get into the 80s or 90s. With NORMAL beers, I've found that temperature isn't nearly as big of a factor once primary fermentation is completely finished, but it can have some effect on beers.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Ive got some OYL-605 on the way to mess around with. Ive seen nothing but good things said about this stuff so hopefully it works out.

 

[worlddivides]

To get around the oxygen problem and the issue with keeping the wort consistently warm, I decided I wouldn't do kettle souring but would do wort souring instead by transferring the wort to a 3 gallon glass carboy, filling it to the brim, pitching the lactobacillus in there, using a stopper and airlock, and wrapping it with a FermWrap heater to keep it as close to 110-120F as possible, and periodically testing it twice a day until I get the ideal level of sourness, then transferring it back to the kettle for the boil.

 

[christyle]

I was going to try that method next time as well. Let me know how it goes.