I'm going pro... got any questions?

[jbunton]

Ya it's exciting times for sure. I'm pretty sure Johnny24 has a good idea. Now that I'm finally incorporated I can make the big announcement. We are now officially "Concession Road Brewing Company". Exact location within Caledonia, Ontario still TBA. We are Haldimand County's first craft brewery!!!

We have a Facebook page up and running and a website coming soon. I am really trying to create a buzz on this as I am getting a bit of pushback from the county's building department. Everyone else is on board just one guy being difficult to deal with!

 

[Soulshine2]

Hey guys

Have discussed a bit before but I am in the process of going pro. In the last little while I have entered a purchase agreement at a local micro for all of their current operating brewhouse equiptment as they expand. Also I have been working there whenever possible.

Brewhouse is as follows.
3bbl 3 tank electric brewhouse
3 x 7bbl stainless jacketed conicals
1 x 7bbl jacketed brite tank
Chill and flow pro chiller
And various other things
(I attached a pic of the cellar tanks for your enjoyment)



I am located in Ontario Canada and thought a good way to give back to a site that has helped me so much would be to open a thread to answer any questions you guys have. I also feel this may answer some things I haven't even thought about.

I will keep updating as I go.

All I can say is good for you and wish you nothing but the best in making your dreams come true. Cheers to the new endeavour.

 

[Cape Brewing]

My advice is take any advice you get from other pro brewers/breweries with a grain of salt given how different every individual situation is..... and then.. advice from people who have never done it... with large wheelbarrows of salt.

 

[Cape Brewing]

I just posted this to a similar thread....


We started our nano for just under $30k in 399 sq ft and are now in 8,500 sq ft with a 3 bbl system and ten fermenters and then a 15 bbl with four 15s and two 20s



If you are starting a nano for any more than about $50k... you have a massive uphill battle ahead if you and, I believe, are setting yourself up to fail.



The most important data point I can give you is "about a $1,000 of revenue per barrel". That's not profit. That's revenue. If you do whatever calculations you're going to do and you are thinking you're going to produce significantly more revenue than that, you're being way too aggressive. If you think you will produce significantly less than that... you're doing something wrong.



So take that $1,000 of revenue and cut it in half to cover cost-of-goods-sold.



That's $500 before paying yourself, or anyone else, a penny. AND that is before putting a penny into expansion.



Now do a back of the envelope of how many barrels you would have to produce on a nano system to hit your payback period on "$250k" or worse, "$400k".... or the most ridiculous I have ever heard (from a beer blogger).... "you can't start a brewery for less than a million dollars".



For every day you haven't paid off your initial investment, all you're really doing is playing with a REALLY expensive hobby. Yes, you own assets and are building equity in a business but those are only valuable if you're going to sell the business or close down... which... given haven't opened yet... i doubt those are your goals.

 

[jbunton]

My advice is take any advice you get from other pro brewers/breweries with a grain of salt given how different every individual situation is..... and then.. advice from people who have never done it... with large wheelbarrows of salt.

Well the advice I'm getting is from the owner of this system who I've been working for and with. He has created quite a profitable business!

Also I know my profit margins and numbers as I have developed a very detailed business plan. I'm not going into this foolishly or blind and I do have allot of resources available to me in the industry. Your numbers are pretty close to actual numbers I have from his operation.

The Canadian market and craft beer scene is quite a bit different than the US as well. Not trying to downplay any advice youve given but I am not a fool who's rushing into this without proper planning and forthought.

 

[Cape Brewing]

In no way was I implying you were a fool in any way.

That said, I think "business plans", "proper planning" and "forthought" only get you about 30% of the way there as all three of those things, ultimately, are trying to predict the future and... that's impossible.

In my experience, those three things go out the window in about a week.

That's not remotely saying you shouldn't have goals, targets, estimates, and gather all of the information you can get.... that IS all helpful. I just wouldn't put a lot of stock in it.

 

[jbunton]

In no way was I implying you were a fool in any way.

That said, I think "business plans", "proper planning" and "forthought" only get you about 30% of the way there as all three of those things, ultimately, are trying to predict the future and... that's impossible.

In my experience, those three things go out the window in about a week.

That's not remotely saying you shouldn't have goals, targets, estimates, and gather all of the information you can get.... that IS all helpful. I just wouldn't put a lot of stock in it.

Agreed it seems you have to kinda go with the flow in this industry. I do appreciate any advice you have for me though. I really look forward to the challenges ahead...and there are allot of them.
My support network is huge and constantly growing and I look forward to getting out of the planning phase and into the buildout and then the brewing. The next phase is rapidly approaching.

I'm just trying to forge my own path in life and do what's ultimately best for myself and makes me happy

I will have to work very hard and long hours initially until the business is established and I can pay myself a living wage.

I am not overly concerned with the payback on my initial investment in the short term. That's more long term for me.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Everyone needs to do their own thing and what you're embarking on might be the EXACT perfect thing for you.

I think you should rethink the payback period piece though because if it is that long term of a thing, essentially what you're doing is paying $100k so you can make $10k a year (making up numbers).

It's not an irrelevant metric

... as an example. The very profitable business that you bought the equip from.... they may be making a tremendous profit margin and clearing $250k a year in pure profit.... but if it cost them $1.5m to build that business, all if that "profitability" isn't so hot.

 

[OldStone]

In no way was I implying you were a fool in any way.

That said, I think "business plans", "proper planning" and "forthought" only get you about 30% of the way there as all three of those things, ultimately, are trying to predict the future and... that's impossible.

In my experience, those three things go out the window in about a week.

That's not remotely saying you shouldn't have goals, targets, estimates, and gather all of the information you can get.... that IS all helpful. I just wouldn't put a lot of stock in it.

That is spoken from the heart. That is about the most honest sincere thing in the post. When the boots hit the ground and the cash register has to ring all the planning, preparation and forecast go right in the trash can. There isn't a new business owner that isn't overly optimistic about their business. Why wouldn't you be. Sometimes you crush your numbers, sometimes you fall short but you will be the next Nostradamus if you hit them exactly. lol. Best of luck to you!!!

My hope is to take advantage of the new Farm Brewery license in my state. I have spent the last three years growing and studying the hell out of how to professionally grow East Coast hops. The brewery part to me is just a bonus. lol. I love to farm and love to drink beer. What a match made in heaven.

 

[Cape Brewing]

That is spoken from the heart. That is about the most honest sincere thing in the post. When the boots hit the ground and the cash register has to ring all the planning, preparation and forecast go right in the trash can. There isn't a new business owner that isn't overly optimistic about their business. Why wouldn't you be. Sometimes you crush your numbers, sometimes you fall short but you will be the next Nostradamus if you hit them exactly. lol. Best of luck to you!!!

My hope is to take advantage of the new Farm Brewery license in my state. I have spent the last three years growing and studying the hell out of how to professionally grow East Coast hops. The brewery part to me is just a bonus. lol. I love to farm and love to drink beer. What a match made in heaven.

Thank you and you're right. It is spoken from the heart. I'm not trying to piss on anyone's rose bushes. We're not the next Sam Adams but I'm really proud of what we've been able to do and I readily admit a decent chunk of our success has been pure stupid luck.

We've been at for a few years and anything I've posted is information I wish I knew when we started.

 

[Honda88]

Ill piss on someone's rose bushes if they need to be pissed on.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Thank you and you're right. It is spoken from the heart. I'm not trying to piss on anyone's rose bushes. We're not the next Sam Adams but I'm really proud of what we've been able to do and I readily admit a decent chunk of our success has been pure stupid luck.

We've been at for a few years and anything I've posted is information I wish I knew when we started.

Called experience! I think it is awesome that you take the time to post here. I just found you a few weeks ago. I read it all and followed your journey. I think it is really cool. I bought me a place 2 years ago for the same project. It is 330 sq ft in the most prime area around me. I can appreciate your honesty. I'm closing a 20 year run with my current business. Nothing is as I thought with my initial business plan, NOTHING! That being said, I'll never go back to working for anyone other than myself. Good on all ya making your way!