I'm at a loss with this strange taste.

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Chesty1019

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Fellow brewers: This is going to be a long post so thank you in advance for taking the ime to read. I'm at a loss with trying to find the reason for a specific off flavor. While it's very hard to describe its somewhere along the lines of an astringent, metallic or somewhat medicinal, maybe even plastic like. Its very subtle and like I said hard to describe.

So here's a little history of my recent experiences; after going all grain (around 5 or so batches ago) my first all grain batch was an IPA, which was heavily hopped and this taste wasn't present, although there is a possibility it was and the hops just covered it up. My second batch was a brown porter, where I had an efficiency loss, did the wrong thing and added dextrose to make up for the loss and it turned out like a dry wine so it got dumped. (Trust me, I never waste beer but this one was terrible). I include this statement to say it could have been present here as well the dryness may have covered it up.

So onto the third batch; this was a hefeweizen, where I again experienced poor effeciency bit boiled it down to hit my numbers this time and was excited for a good All grain beer, however, after fermentation the taste was there and due to the lightness of a hefe, it's overwhelming.

Having poor efficiency along with this taste, I considered it was my water, so I did as much research on water as possible. I have read a vast array of information the past few months and am very comfortable answering any question on water now. My water report came back terrible, and I realized I was done with my tap water.

Onto batch four, where I used RO water and treated it by myself. This again was a hefe, while I could tell a complete difference in the beer due to the water, this strange flavor was still present. I would consider This a great beer, but this darned thing is still there.

I always use starters, pitching plenty of yeast. I treat my yeast similar to how I did my daughter's when they were babies. (Yeah, they're that important to me, sort of adopted children).

My fermentation temps are steady; I keep them stored accordingly to White Labs.

I have multiple plastic fermenter buckets and have considered an infection, but feel it awkward to have all three of them with the same exact infection causing the same taste.

As far as my process; I heat strike water in my kettle, transfer in to the mash tun and mash in. Heat sparge water for a batch sparge transfer it to an HLT (5 gal pot), drain the mash and sparge, then boil of course.

I am usually hospital clean with my sanitary process.

Could there be anything else causing these flavors? I'm fairly sure I'm not drawing tannins as I am generally spot on woth my target temps.

The last possibility, and I left this last to see if there are other conclusions and not draw the attention to it. After that first IPA I got pretty trashed afterwards. While cleaning the ALUMINUM boil kettle, I dumped PBW in and of course forgot about it. This left it pitted and I believe this could be it. Although, I read many debated topics of aluminum or PBW giving off flavors.

Thanks for the attention, and I appreciate any ideas or comments.
 
When you used RO water, you said you treated it. What did you do with it? It does sound like a water issue.

What do you use for sanitizing your post-boil things, and for mixing up the sanitizer?
 
I feel honored. The great Yooper is on my post!

I'd have to dig into my recipe book to get the exact measurements. I'm away from the house right now but I believe it was 1/2 tsp of gypsum and 1/2tsp of CaCl2.

I always use fresh Star San with RO water. 1oz to 5 gal is what it calls for. When mixing I usually only do a 1/2 oz in 2.5 gallons.
 
Check out the Brewing Networks show Brew Strong. A recent episode had John Palmer discussing care of stainless and brewing equipment. He states that once the pitting in a metal starts, it's difficult for oxides to form. I use aluminum too, but I boiled water in it first and the oxide layer was very prevalent. Without the oxide layer, aluminum can leach in. I cooked once with a cheap aluminum wok that I scrubbed to bare metal first, the food was horribly metallic and even discolored.
 
I feel honored. The great Yooper is on my post!

I'd have to dig into my recipe book to get the exact measurements. I'm away from the house right now but I believe it was 1/2 tsp of gypsum and 1/2tsp of CaCl2.

I always use fresh Star San with RO water. 1oz to 5 gal is what it calls for. When mixing I usually only do a 1/2 oz in 2.5 gallons.

Thanks for the kind words!

Your water sounds great, then, and so does the sanitizing mix. So I think you and Smizak are unto something with the pot pitting.
 
What's your carbing method? The reason I ask is because I've noticed a metallic taste on over carbed beers. Wheat beers tend to be more noticeable especially since they are intended to be highly carbed.
 
I once got my tank filled with co2 from a paintball store, and thought the gas to be inferior after getting a strange flavor, not metallic but more "tingly" if that makes sense. i off gassed both kegs, got co2 from a local beer shop who buys it from a welding supplier, and the flavor disappeared. not scientific testing, but seemed a possible culprit. also, i have accidentally used oxyclean to wash plastic fermenters, and the next 2 batches had a strange taste. later i realized it was not the oxyclean "free" i needed. d'oh!

do you oxygenate your wort before pitching?
 
I highly doubt it's my carbonation method as I can taste it in gravity samples prior to kegging.
 
Any recommended brew kettles? I've been looking at the blichmann due to all the bells and whistles. I do see a RIMS/HERMS system in the future so I'd like to only cry once and buy once for a BK/MLT.
 
I once got my tank filled with co2 from a paintball store, and thought the gas to be inferior after getting a strange flavor, not metallic but more "tingly" if that makes sense. i off gassed both kegs, got co2 from a local beer shop who buys it from a welding supplier, and the flavor disappeared. not scientific testing, but seemed a possible culprit. also, i have accidentally used oxyclean to wash plastic fermenters, and the next 2 batches had a strange taste. later i realized it was not the oxyclean "free" i needed. d'oh!

do you oxygenate your wort before pitching?

Are we not supposed to use oxiclean on plastic?
 
yes, regular oxyclean has chlorine and fragrance. bad choice to sit overnight in a fermenter. gave 2 batches a weird, unknown off flavor that i could not pinpoint.. dumped one batch, half of a pumpkin porter when i realized it was not an odd spice flavor. :learning experience:
 
You might want to try a different taster.
People's pallets change due to foods (spices), medicine ( antibiotics ), colds and so on. You get the idea. Try asking a friends to taste for you and without planting seeds of expectations such as saying " There's something wrong with this beer, isn't there?"
If your already doing the process of elimination this may help.
To cut to the chase . The beer may be fine, but your palate is out to lunch.
 
Fellow brewers: This is going to be a long post so thank you in advance for taking the ime to read. I'm at a loss with trying to find the reason for a specific off flavor. While it's very hard to describe its somewhere along the lines of an astringent, metallic or somewhat medicinal, maybe even plastic like. Its very subtle and like I said hard to describe.

So here's a little history of my recent experiences; after going all grain (around 5 or so batches ago) my first all grain batch was an IPA, which was heavily hopped and this taste wasn't present, although there is a possibility it was and the hops just covered it up. My second batch was a brown porter, where I had an efficiency loss, did the wrong thing and added dextrose to make up for the loss and it turned out like a dry wine so it got dumped. (Trust me, I never waste beer but this one was terrible). I include this statement to say it could have been present here as well the dryness may have covered it up.

So onto the third batch; this was a hefeweizen, where I again experienced poor effeciency bit boiled it down to hit my numbers this time and was excited for a good All grain beer, however, after fermentation the taste was there and due to the lightness of a hefe, it's overwhelming.

Having poor efficiency along with this taste, I considered it was my water, so I did as much research on water as possible. I have read a vast array of information the past few months and am very comfortable answering any question on water now. My water report came back terrible, and I realized I was done with my tap water.

Onto batch four, where I used RO water and treated it by myself. This again was a hefe, while I could tell a complete difference in the beer due to the water, this strange flavor was still present. I would consider This a great beer, but this darned thing is still there.

I always use starters, pitching plenty of yeast. I treat my yeast similar to how I did my daughter's when they were babies. (Yeah, they're that important to me, sort of adopted children).

My fermentation temps are steady; I keep them stored accordingly to White Labs.

I have multiple plastic fermenter buckets and have considered an infection, but feel it awkward to have all three of them with the same exact infection causing the same taste.

As far as my process; I heat strike water in my kettle, transfer in to the mash tun and mash in. Heat sparge water for a batch sparge transfer it to an HLT (5 gal pot), drain the mash and sparge, then boil of course.

I am usually hospital clean with my sanitary process.

Could there be anything else causing these flavors? I'm fairly sure I'm not drawing tannins as I am generally spot on woth my target temps.

The last possibility, and I left this last to see if there are other conclusions and not draw the attention to it. After that first IPA I got pretty trashed afterwards. While cleaning the ALUMINUM boil kettle, I dumped PBW in and of course forgot about it. This left it pitted and I believe this could be it. Although, I read many debated topics of aluminum or PBW giving off flavors.

Thanks for the attention, and I appreciate any ideas or comments.


Good post, I've been dealing with an intermittent off flavor as well, comes and goes, but I would best describe it as bandaids/plastic or medicinal. Sounds like we might be talking about the same type of flavor... Not trying to hijack the thread, but it's really getting to me that I can't figure this out.

I'm at a complete loss for what might cause it, as I now brew with RO water and use bru'n water to calculate gypsum and CaCl additions and to make sure other minerals are in check. It happens with re used yeast as well as new, both liquid and powder.


I have been using the regular oxyclean for most of my cleaning of fermenters/bottles, and now I'm suspecting this might be the culprit, so I plan on switching to pbw for a while to see if it goes away. If this isn't the problem, wild yeast infection is my next guess. My chiller doesn't do well below 85* so I usually stop around 90, let it sit overnight or finish chilling in the swamp cooler with frozen water bottles before pitching. This might be giving some wild yeast enough time to foul the beer

It's really frustrating to have to dump a batch because of this, but it really makes the beer undrinkable.
 
Good post, I've been dealing with an intermittent off flavor as well, comes and goes, but I would best describe it as bandaids/plastic or medicinal. Sounds like we might be talking about the same type of flavor... Not trying to hijack the thread, but it's really getting to me that I can't figure this out.

I'm at a complete loss for what might cause it, as I now brew with RO water and use bru'n water to calculate gypsum and CaCl additions and to make sure other minerals are in check. It happens with re used yeast as well as new, both liquid and powder.


I have been using the regular oxyclean for most of my cleaning of fermenters/bottles, and now I'm suspecting this might be the culprit, so I plan on switching to pbw for a while to see if it goes away. If this isn't the problem, wild yeast infection is my next guess. My chiller doesn't do well below 85* so I usually stop around 90, let it sit overnight or finish chilling in the swamp cooler with frozen water bottles before pitching. This might be giving some wild yeast enough time to foul the beer

It's really frustrating to have to dump a batch because of this, but it really makes the beer undrinkable.

Are you using aluminum as well, if so what is your cleaning process? I haven't had to dump a batch due to this instance, it's bearable.

I did two recent batches one a Half batch in another pot and another BIAB in order to try and eliminate what is causing this.

If the BIAB that I did in my regular aluminum kettle comes out the same way it will narrow it to other the kettle or cleaning process on the cold side.

If the half batch comes out good I know then it is the kettle.

I'll post an update for you with my findings.
 
Jeff: I think you may also be letting the wild yeast create a presence. Are you using a plate chiller or immersion?

If using a plate chiller you could get a pump and try pumping ice water through it, I noticed slowing the flow out of the kettle (only opening the valve 1/4) also helps.

If an immersion chiller you could put the input line through a sesperate ice batch in a cooler.
 
I think I know the exact flavor you are talking about. I had about 50% of my earlier batches develop this flavor. They were fine for a while, but after a month in the bottle, they would all get this metallic, medicinal awful flavor. Sometimes it would be strong enough to overshadow the roastiness of a stout even.

I think for me it stemmed from my bottling process. I do BIAb on ym stove and also bottle in my kitchen. Im sure there all sorts of stuff flaoting around in the air since I do a lot of cooking as well. Once I got better at bottling and got a bottle tree to help keep the bottles sanitized and exposed for less time before capping, it seemed to have gone away. Not sure if that exactly addressed your issue, but I hope it helps. I also read on bearflavored that S-04 yeast can cause these off flavors, so I stopped using that entirely and now mostly do liquids. But there was some pretty damning evidence of some guy who had data for 100-some batches and maybe 15 of them had this flavor. Every one of the off batches were fermented with s-04, save one.
 
Are you using aluminum as well, if so what is your cleaning process? I haven't had to dump a batch due to this instance, it's bearable.

I did two recent batches one a Half batch in another pot and another BIAB in order to try and eliminate what is causing this.

If the BIAB that I did in my regular aluminum kettle comes out the same way it will narrow it to other the kettle or cleaning process on the cold side.

If the half batch comes out good I know then it is the kettle.

I'll post an update for you with my findings.

I use a cheap-o SS kettle, which I've noticed some oxidation on the bottom of.. I usually clean with dish soap and the green brillo side of the sponge.. and it takes most of the oxidation off but a thin layer remains.

I use an immersion chiller , clean the outside when it starts to tarnish by soaking in hot water and vinegar.

I think you're doing the right thing by isolating certain parts of the process and experimenting, I'm keeping documentation of the changes I make to my processes too.

I plan on brewing this week hopefully, and using pbw for cleaning my fermenter, racking equipment, brew kettle, etc also making sure I get my wort chilled to pitching temps more quickly. I'll be sure to share my results as well.
 
Now you have me worried about my Oxyclean. I know it's not the 'free' one but I do rinse the bejesus out of it with hot water and then starsan.

Anyway, about kettles, I am looking at this one when I upgrade.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261673694895?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

The alloy isn't the strongest or most corrosion resistant, but with TLC and some BKF, my research shows it should be excellent. And keeps the option of induction heating open.
 
I did two recent batches one a Half batch in another pot and another BIAB in order to try and eliminate what is causing this.

If the BIAB that I did in my regular aluminum kettle comes out the same way it will narrow it to other the kettle or cleaning process on the cold side.

Have you checked your mash pH when brewing?
 
I use a cheap-o SS kettle, which I've noticed some oxidation on the bottom of.. I usually clean with dish soap and the green brillo side of the sponge.. and it takes most of the oxidation off but a thin layer remains.

I use an immersion chiller , clean the outside when it starts to tarnish by soaking in hot water and vinegar.

I think you're doing the right thing by isolating certain parts of the process and experimenting, I'm keeping documentation of the changes I make to my processes too.

I plan on brewing this week hopefully, and using pbw for cleaning my fermenter, racking equipment, brew kettle, etc also making sure I get my wort chilled to pitching temps more quickly. I'll be sure to share my results as well.

So I had a brew day on 12-16, day after this post. I brewed a single hop simcoe IPA.

What I did different that usual:

Clean ALL my equipment that would be touching the beer in pbw first, sanitizing the equipment that would be touching the beer after cooling (and used tap water instead of hose water for my star san.)

Cooled my wort to about 80, then continued to cool it in a swamp cooler with frozen water bottles until about 68, about 1.5-2 hours later, and pitched my starter. Made sure to sniff check the starter for clorophenols, it just smelled like beer. :D

So I took a SG reading and tasted the sample.. I wasn't gonna waste hops on dry hopping if it tasted bad.

Lucky for me no off flavor this time.

Because my off flavor is happening intermittently, impossible to tell if any of the changes I made really helped... only solution is to keep doing what I've been doing, and to brew more in the name of research!
 

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