I'm a homebrewer now...

[GreyRaven]

Well, with an extract + grain kit anyway.

But still, I just finished my first boil, chilled it down to 78 or so, pitched the yeast and closed it up. Remembered that I need the OG... Opened it up again, take the OG, found it matched the target for the recipe, and closed everything up again.

SWMBO has "listened" to me talk about this kit for days. I told her when I bought the 8 gallon pot to do the boil, and the wort chiller. But when I start setting up for the boil I discover that there is a difference between listening to me talk about it, suggesting books to read on the subject, and outright approval of the endeavor to make beer. "Why do we need beer?" she asked, more than once. I had to begin my boil process with a sincere apology, only to have her lean over the pot and comment on how good it smelled. I'm hoping this Belgian Ale kit delivers and she likes it. The dog takes up too much room on the couch with me, and I want to get back in my own bed.

 

[C-Rider]

Good to have SWMBO on your side.

Remember when you do an extract kit you CAN'T miss the OG stated w/the kit unless you mess up the volume.

 

[Qhrumphf]

My wife tolerates my brewing. That's about the most positive way of wording it. She doesn't drink beer, doesn't like beer, and we live in a very small apartment, and in all honestly I will readily concede that all the stuff I've acquired of the years (between gear, ingredients, bottles both full and empty, and current fermenters) eats up a sizable portion of our very precious space.

So I know where you're coming from.

 

[Michigan_Wolfman]

My wife isn't a beer drinker, but she accepts the fact that homebrewing is one of my hobbies. Always good to have SWMBO on your side.

 

[D-Train]

Congrats! My wife drinks my homebrew and has requested some styles, but I was kicked outside after my first brew. You're lucky to have her on board. I love the smell of boiling wort and hops. Boom!

 

[ol-hazza]

SWMBO in my house is about to own half of it, I dread what's going to happen to what remaining territory I claim as my own.

 

[ol-hazza]

oh and "ONE OF US, ONE OF US, ONE OF US!!"

 

[Biscuits]

Congrats, welcome, and good luck with winning over the SWMBO! My wife is a beer fan, but also likes the money to be spent on "necessities"....every so often I whine and whimper enough to get her to let me spend way too much money on brewing stuff....it keeps us both happy in the long run.

 

[joshesmusica]

Well, with an extract + grain kit anyway.

But still, I just finished my first boil, chilled it down to 78 or so, pitched the yeast and closed it up. Remembered that I need the OG... Opened it up again, take the OG, found it matched the target for the recipe, and closed everything up again.

SWMBO has "listened" to me talk about this kit for days. I told her when I bought the 8 gallon pot to do the boil, and the wort chiller. But when I start setting up for the boil I discover that there is a difference between listening to me talk about it, suggesting books to read on the subject, and outright approval of the endeavor to make beer. "Why do we need beer?" she asked, more than once. I had to begin my boil process with a sincere apology, only to have her lean over the pot and comment on how good it smelled. I'm hoping this Belgian Ale kit delivers and she likes it. The dog takes up too much room on the couch with me, and I want to get back in my own bed.

good job on getting started, take your wife to the liquor store (or grocery store if you're living in one of those nice states), and tell her to pick out a 6 pack of all different styles. figure out what she likes, and make sure you're brewing enough of what she likes in between what you're brewing for yourself.

but i am concerned about one part of your post. next time you're gonna wanna pitch much, much cooler (even if you have ferment temp control, still wanna be pitching below 72), like around 66-68.

 

[GreyRaven]

but i am concerned about one part of your post. next time you're gonna wanna pitch much, much cooler (even if you have ferment temp control, still wanna be pitching below 72), like around 66-68.

I learned the hard way on my first batch of mead not to pitch to hot. Had to buy a second pack of yeast to get it going. I hope I'm safe, because the well-written instructions in the kit said to pitch when temperature dropped below 80. I think it was down to 78 or 77 when I pitched. I will get it down farther next time.

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement everyone. I did get to sleep in the bed last night to my relief and the dog's disappointment. I think I'm on parole, and have to make sure I get the wort chiller and brew pot washed and stored away when I get home from work tonight. My biggest fear is having an over-active fermentation while I'm at work and getting a call that the bucket exploded.

 

[joshesmusica]

That's too hot. Throw those instructions away, and never buy a kit from that company again. They're clearly idiots and don't deserve anybody's business. Next time ask here before you do something. Hell even get your recipes from here next time and buy only what's on the ingredients, even if the guy at the lhbs tries to sell you something else.

 

[Qhrumphf]

That's too hot. Throw those instructions away, and never buy a kit from that company again. They're clearly idiots and don't deserve anybody's business. Next time ask here before you do something. Hell even get your recipes from here next time and buy only what's on the ingredients, even if the guy at the lhbs tries to sell you something else.

I haven't bought a kit in a long time, but I recall most kits saying something similar (pitch when the wort is <80).

It's not good advice, but as far as I'm aware, doesn't matter who made the kit, most kit instructions are bad advice. Doesn't make the kit itself wrong, just means you shouldn't follow their instructions outside of the actual extract/grain and hop additions.

 

[joshesmusica]

I haven't bought a kit in a long time, but I recall most kits saying something similar (pitch when the wort is <80).

It's not good advice, but as far as I'm aware, doesn't matter who made the kit, most kit instructions are bad advice. Doesn't make the kit itself wrong, just means you shouldn't follow their instructions outside of the actual extract/grain and hop additions.

oh i wasn't saying that the kit itself was wrong. but some idiotic company just trying to make money off of the innocent new homebrewers by passing out very poor brewing procedures doesn't deserve a penny.

 

[Qhrumphf]

oh i wasn't saying that the kit itself was wrong. but some idiotic company just trying to make money off of the innocent new homebrewers by passing out very poor brewing procedures doesn't deserve a penny.

You missed the point. They all say that. Northern Brewer's kits say 78°F or lower. Should we never buy anything from Northern Brewer (well, given that you're on the other side of the pond I doubt you would anyway, but you get my point...)?

They say that because it's the lowest possible working common denominator, and the kit instructions are designed for someone who's never brewed before.

They're bad instructions, for sure. But that's ALL kits. So if you want to never buy from a company with instructions like that, you best avoid every homebrew shop out there.

That's what I'm on about. Just ignore the kit instructions and follow the proper procedure.

 

[joshesmusica]

You missed the point. They all say that. Northern Brewer's kits say 78°F or lower. Should we never buy anything from Northern Brewer (well, given that you're on the other side of the pond I doubt you would anyway, but you get my point...)?

They say that because it's the lowest possible working common denominator, and the kit instructions are designed for someone who's never brewed before.

They're bad instructions, for sure. But that's ALL kits. So if you want to never buy from a company with instructions like that, you best avoid every homebrew shop out there.

That's what I'm on about. Just ignore the kit instructions and follow the proper procedure.

That's just bad logic. Admittedly a very American (I'm an American so don't get offended) mindset. "Everything's broken, so we will just get on with life and ignore the problems."

But I guess that's why I started doing proven recipes from on here from the beginning and buying ONLY the ingredients that I need.

People pulling scam-like bs should be called out. As consumers, we call them out by not purchasing their products. It is the consumer who has the power, not necessarily the business owner. If we don't buy their ****, they can't propagate more ****. If my lhbs does something shady then I will call them out (and sometimes they do: one time a guy tried to tell me that golden light and Munich extracts are basically equal, so I called him out right there and said he needed to do some more research maybe before he is allowed to give advice to the customers. Then proceeded to find someone else to help me.).

So no I didn't miss the point. I just think it's stupid to just let them continue with their scammy ways. But that's also why I denounce most kits and give people the advice to learn from all the great folks on here. Yes there are people on here who give bad advice, or at least not the best advice, and there are tons of opinions, but if someone came on here suggesting to just get it to 78 and pitch, there would be plenty of people calling the guy out. Right?

 

[joshesmusica]

But that is all off topic, so to the OP:
If you have temp control, there are a lot of people who say it's ok to get it down to at least 72f and then pitch the yeast.
Or there are just as many (maybe more?) who get it down to ferment temps, then pitch. But, this is especially important if you don't have a ferment chamber or at least really good control over your ferment temps.

 

[aprichman]

It's a Belgian Ale kit so temp control is probably not that big of an issue. Mostly depends on the strain of yeast but a lot of Belgian strains will do fine in high 70s / low 80s.

 

[GreyRaven]

Sigh. Seems I touched a nerve. Thank you all for taking me under your wing and providing guidance. There are two factors in favor of the kit makers:

1. They have a brick & mortar store and have to deal with unhappy customers face to face.
2. My wort is bubbling quite happily in just under 24 hours.

The instructions were written well enough by my standards (and I'm a professional technical writer) that I was willing to risk following them to the letter. So far, everything seems to be working just fine. They do say that the ferment should take place between 65 and 70 for best results. I'm trying to keep it in the mid to low 60s as much as I can. unfortunately, my BrewPi rig is already tasked to keeping the mead warm so I'm left with keeping it in a cool room downstairs that stays around 65.

Perhaps I should have been clear that they said to pitch when the temps dropped below 80. I think that signifies the upper range for the specific yeast. Would that be a safe assumption?

 

[kh54s10]

Sigh. Seems I touched a nerve. Thank you all for taking me under your wing and providing guidance. There are two factors in favor of the kit makers:

1. They have a brick & mortar store and have to deal with unhappy customers face to face.
2. My wort is bubbling quite happily in just under 24 hours.

The instructions were written well enough by my standards (and I'm a professional technical writer) that I was willing to risk following them to the letter. So far, everything seems to be working just fine. They do say that the ferment should take place between 65 and 70 for best results. I'm trying to keep it in the mid to low 60s as much as I can. unfortunately, my BrewPi rig is already tasked to keeping the mead warm so I'm left with keeping it in a cool room downstairs that stays around 65.

Perhaps I should have been clear that they said to pitch when the temps dropped below 80. I think that signifies the upper range for the specific yeast. Would that be a safe assumption?

65 degrees ambient should be good.

The argument is about directions. Almost all of them say to pitch when below 80 degrees. It is a pretty common idea that this is too warm. Even if you are cooling after pitching, it will take a long time to cool the wort from 80 degrees to mid sixties. With the exothermic action of yeast the added temperature might not be reduced until after fermentation stops. By then any damage that might be done has already occurred.

The best practice is to cool to your fermentation temperature then control that temperature. Mid sixties is best for most ale yeasts.

What Qhrumphf was saying and joshesmusica didn't seem to understand is that unless you don't buy kits at all it would be difficult to boycott because almost all kits say to pitch when the wort is below 80 degrees. So you would essentially have to boycott most ALL kits.

People have been complaining about poor instructions, at least since I started brewing in 2011, certainly much longer. Yet, the instructions stay the same.

 

[GreyRaven]

Good advice. I'll pay more attention to the guidance here next time.

So... A new question. My wort was bubbling quite vigorously for the first 36 hours (after a 24 hour start time) and now seems to have stopped. The room temperature may have dropped to closer to 60 degrees. Is it possible that the primary fermentation could have finished in 36 hours? I have seen plenty of advice here to measure SG over two or three days to see if it is stable and near target, but I am reluctant to open the bucket without a good reason and risk infection.

 

[GreyRaven]

So I re-read the instructions in the kit and they said that the fermentation can be complete in 1 to 3 days if it goes well, or up to two weeks in cooler temps. SO I opened the bucket and tested with the hydrometer.

Yup. I'm at the target SG of 1.012. I'll check again over the next few days to make sure it's stable and then bottle. Woot! I'm excited to try this brew. Next time I think I'll just have one batch in fermentation at a time so it can go in the BrewPi chamber.

 

[andy6026]

Ditch SWMBO... beer is better.

 

[aprichman]

36 hour fermentation? Get ready for some rocket fuel.

 

[GreyRaven]

Ditch SWMBO... beer is better.

Nah. Many reasons to keep her. Plus, she told me today she would rather have me make beer to have around for her to drink than wine. Besides, beer would never put up with me the way she has.

 

[GreyRaven]

So the FG stayed constant for a couple days in a row. I went ahead and bottled. Now I'm just nervous wondering if I did something wrong and if any bottles will explode. SWMBO is also a tad concerned about bottle bombs, but had this odd little smile when she said "but you'll clean those up, right?"

Gulp.

 

[Michigan_Wolfman]

So the FG stayed constant for a couple days in a row. I went ahead and bottled. Now I'm just nervous wondering if I did something wrong and if any bottles will explode. SWMBO is also a tad concerned about bottle bombs, but had this odd little smile when she said "but you'll clean those up, right?"

Gulp.

My advice to you.....just nod and smile. Like this....

 

[btbnl]

So the FG stayed constant for a couple days in a row. I went ahead and bottled. Now I'm just nervous wondering if I did something wrong and if any bottles will explode. SWMBO is also a tad concerned about bottle bombs, but had this odd little smile when she said "but you'll clean those up, right?"

Gulp.

Put the bottles in boxes and stack the boxes in hefty bags and there's barely any clean up even if something blows.

With a stable and reasonable FG there shouldn't be any reason for bombs though.

 

[joshesmusica]

So the FG stayed constant for a couple days in a row. I went ahead and bottled. Now I'm just nervous wondering if I did something wrong and if any bottles will explode. SWMBO is also a tad concerned about bottle bombs, but had this odd little smile when she said "but you'll clean those up, right?"

Gulp.

dang, so how long was this actually in the fermenter? did you taste those gravity readings? did you do any kind of cold crashing or to clear it up?

 

[Kharnynb]

36 hours is way short, even perfect controlled commercials don't work that fast...

Just because the acive phase is over, doesn't mean it is done yet.

Usually it is good to leave the beer on the cake for at least 2 weeks before even taking the first gravity measurement.

 

[joshesmusica]

Usually it is good to leave the beer on the cake for at least 2 weeks before even taking the first gravity measurement.

What is your definition of usually?
And if that's the case then why do some of the more experienced, and top brewers on this forum advocate differently?
Science doesn't even back this up, as the usual ferment time including the around 2-day cleaning up phase is around 9-10 days.
Mine are usually in the fermenter for two weeks total, maybe a little longer if I forget to dry hop in time.
It's not a set time frame or anything, just a "usually" takes that long. Anything longer is just conditioning.
And as far as taking gravity readings, as long is you do it in a sanitary way, and expose it to oxygen the least possible, it's not going to kill your beer to test more times. I wait until the active part of fermentation is done, test it. Ramp up the temps a bit, let it sit for a few more days, likely dry hop in this time frame if the recipe calls for it. Then make sure it's hit FG, wait a couple days, check again to be absolutely for sure. Cold crash, gelatin, package. Active part of fermentation can be done in 3-5 days depending on yeast. Getting down to FG and cleaning up another 3-5 days. Then cold crash and gelatin another 3 days.
Granted that is if you're pitching healthy yeast at the proper pitch rates and have ferment temp control, and a solid recipe. If I couldn't cold crash I would prolly wait another week, just cause I don't like a ton of yeast in my bottles. If you control those things properly, there should be no reason that it needs to condition so long in the primary for your average sized beer. It will condition in the bottle, or because gas is so expensive here, I use priming sugar in my keg as well. Either way it's still getting another couple weeks to condition after packing.

 

[GreyRaven]

dang, so how long was this actually in the fermenter? did you taste those gravity readings? did you do any kind of cold crashing or to clear it up?

It was in the fermenter just about a week. I did not cold crash or do anything to clear it up because those were not mentioned in the instructions I was working from.

I did taste it when bottling, and it was a bit harsh but it seemed like a room temp Chimay that had gone flat (in other words, not rocket fuel but not something I would enjoy sipping all night either). I think cold and carbonated it would be something I like.

I talked with one of the guys at the LHBS who made the kit I used. He commented that while the 36 hour ferment was possible, he'd never had it happen on his batches but if the FG was on target and stable over a couple days, it should in fact be done.

Yes, I will follow a lot of the advice you all have given me the next time. Not sure if there is anything I can do differently this time. I'm planning to give them a few more days at room temp to carbonate, move them downstairs to a cooler room for another week or so and then refrigerate. If there is something I can do to fix things now, please suggest away. I'm already feeling like I did a poor job on my first and want to learn to do better next time.

 

[joshesmusica]

A week is likely too soon. I just remembered after your comment about chimay that it's a Belgian ale. I would've likely left that particular style in the fermenter for three weeks, especially if it was higher gravity.
Let it sit at room temp for at least two weeks, then you can move it down to the basement for a week. Then refrigerate one for at least a day, and then you'll get to check carbonation levels and taste before you throw them all in the fridge. This is a style that should only get better with age, so be very patient with it.

 

[Kharnynb]

What is your definition of usually?
And if that's the case then why do some of the more experienced, and top brewers on this forum advocate differently?
Science doesn't even back this up, as the usual ferment time including the around 2-day cleaning up phase is around 9-10 days.
Mine are usually in the fermenter for two weeks total, maybe a little longer if I forget to dry hop in time.
It's not a set time frame or anything, just a "usually" takes that long. Anything longer is just conditioning.
And as far as taking gravity readings, as long is you do it in a sanitary way, and expose it to oxygen the least possible, it's not going to kill your beer to test more times. I wait until the active part of fermentation is done, test it. Ramp up the temps a bit, let it sit for a few more days, likely dry hop in this time frame if the recipe calls for it. Then make sure it's hit FG, wait a couple days, check again to be absolutely for sure. Cold crash, gelatin, package. Active part of fermentation can be done in 3-5 days depending on yeast. Getting down to FG and cleaning up another 3-5 days. Then cold crash and gelatin another 3 days.
Granted that is if you're pitching healthy yeast at the proper pitch rates and have ferment temp control, and a solid recipe. If I couldn't cold crash I would prolly wait another week, just cause I don't like a ton of yeast in my bottles. If you control those things properly, there should be no reason that it needs to condition so long in the primary for your average sized beer. It will condition in the bottle, or because gas is so expensive here, I use priming sugar in my keg as well. Either way it's still getting another couple weeks to condition after packing.

5 days active +5 days cleaning +3 days cold crash isn't that exactly the same as 2 weeks?? and if so, why are you arguing against me?

 

[joshesmusica]

5 days active +5 days cleaning +3 days cold crash isn't that exactly the same as 2 weeks?? and if so, why are you arguing against me?

Well I suppose it's one day less, so by day 14 (the day you are saying you take your first measurement), mine are in the bottle on my usual beer. I'm not arguing against you, just your point. On my usual beer I have tested gravity at least twice by day 14.

My problem with your post, and why I then lined out my usual method that I learned works well from other great brewers on here, was because you stated your preferred process for fermentation as fact. You're absolutely allowed to brew how you like, I would just suggest that you preface your suggestions as your opinion unless it is something absolutely proven as fact.

 

[Kharnynb]

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

/Straight from how to brew by john palmer, so hardly just my preference or opinion.

 

[joshesmusica]

I would imagine those recommendations are for someone who's kegging and force carbing.
The same conditioning will happen in the bottle while it's carbing up.
Clearer beer will happen with gelatin and cold crashing.
Never mentioned anything about off flavors, as I'm not concerned too much about that up to a couple of months.

It isn't just your preference or opinion, but that doesn't make it any less of a personal preference or opinion. It isn't necessarily fact, therefore it is necessarily an opinion.

I have a different opinion, but my opinion is based off of first and foremost already very solid brewing practices as I laid out in my post.

If a person is trying out a new recipe; doesn't focus too much on yeast vitality, viability, and count; doesn't have ferment temps under control; doesn't have very good sanitation procedures; or can't cold crash, I wouldn't recommend my (and many others') preferred method. In fact I would say if even just one of the above isn't done, then don't go with it. But if one can focus on those things and get them down, the timeline I stated before can work and still produce great beer on a usually normal sized beer.

I'm not discrediting your preferred method. I agree it's another way of brewing beer. But that doesn't make it fact.

 

[Kharnynb]

I would say my personal brewing is actually closer to 3 weeks in the fermenter.

For someone starting, who doesn't have a lot of gear/experience, a hard target of 2 weeks or more makes sense.
If you have a good fermentation chamber, a lot of experience etc etc., you can cut down those times, but i wouldn't recommend it for anyone in the first 10 odd batches at least.

The advice quoted, is for starters, from the "first brew" portion of the book.

Personally I am not enough in a hurry to get the beer ready that I have to limit the primary time.
What i've read is that there really is little reason to take the beer out of the fermenter before 3 weeks, apart from speed to the glass.

 

[joshesmusica]

If the beer is ready, there really is little reason to leave it in the fermenter much longer than the time it takes, apart from a busy schedule that forces you to put it off.

 

[Kharnynb]

I guess as a norwegian, you really are just trying to avoid the shop beer prices....

 

[joshesmusica]

I guess as a norwegian, you really are just trying to avoid the shop beer prices....

That's not even something to joke about. A six pack of some ****ty ass carlsberg costs anywhere from $21-28, depending on the exchange rate (right now the kroner has gone down, so it's $21)!

One bottle costs something like 28 kr. It costs me about 11-12 kr per bottle on my pricey IPAs, 8-9 kr on my normal sized, normal hopped beers!

But really the reason I tried to get that timeline down and still have really good beer was because I drink a lot of it, so does my wife, and I like sharing with my friends, so I gotta keep that pipeline continuous. I tried it a couple of times to see if it was true, and it worked. I used to be in the same camp as you before I could cold crash. I already had the rest of the stuff down. Now the only time I make a beer I'm not too particularly find of is when I mess with one of those aforementioned details (usually the recipe part.)