IIPA - several questions

[Brian_]

Hi guys -

My next brew will be an double IPA. Here's the recipe I'm planning:

3 gallon batch:

grainbill:
-9.5lbs pale 2 row
-0.5lbs crystal60
OG of 1.068 after the boil;
mash 60 min at 150
-0.5lbs table sugar (a few days later)
OG of 1.075 if table sugar included

yeast: s-33

hop schedule:
8oz Columbus (15%) at 120 min (!)
1oz Columbus (15%) at 30 min* (note: all hops in pellets)
1oz Columbus (15%) at 5 min*
(dry hopping ...)

At this point you might be scratching your head. I'm relatively new to brewing; this will be about my 10th batch - 5th BIAB all-grain. Unfortunately my efficiency tends to be around 55%. I'm doing the long boil to both get my OG up and to utilize my hops. Here are the questions that I was hoping you guys could help me with -

1) I realize that I'm going to have a huge amount of hop material in the wort. One idea that I had was to strain out the initial hops after ~90 minutes (prior to 2nd addition). My thinking was that I could dip my strainer through the wort and get a large share of the 8oz of hops I add at the beginning. Of course those hops would be almost maxed out, so I wouldn't be losing anything, other than the beer that gets poured out with the trub :cross: What do y'all think of that idea?

2) Is there any point in FWH a beer like this?

3) I also have a few ounces of other hops on hand (Amarillo and Galaxy). Does anyone envision conflicts between Columbus/Amarillo/Galaxy? Which ones would be best for the late additions (that I *starred* above) and dry hopping?

4) I've heard conflicting reports about the effect of long boils: some claim harm and others say it's harmless. To be on the safe side, I won't have the boil rolling too hard (avoid burning...?). That's safe, right?

5) I was thinking about dividing the sugar additions over 2 or 3 days? Pros/cons vs all at once? Any chance it's ok to throw the raw sugar in without boiling (trying to avoid adding water)?

6) Any other thoughts? How does the recipe look?

Thanks a bunch!

 

[Yooper]

As far as your recipe, the OG is low enough that you can put the sugar in the boil and not add it later.

I don't like the hopping- too many bittering hops and not enough late additions. IIPAs are all about huge hops aroma and flavor, and so need much more in the way of late additions.

What's with a 120 minute boil and hop addition? That seems really way above and beyond anything necessary, with little additional IBUs. I'd do a 60 minute boil, but a 90 minute would be ok if using a ton of pilsner malt in the grainbill. A 120 minute boil will increase maillard reactions, making more of a caramelized wort and probably not something desireable in an IIPA.

1. I don't understand the reasoning behind an IIPA with only bittering hops, and such a massive amount, so I can't speak to that. It's nothing that I would do, and nothing I would enjoy drinking.

2. No. With a 120 minute boil, and 8-9 times the hops needed for bittering, I see no point in more bittering.

3. Doesn't matter with the overpowering boatload of bittering hops, but if you wanted to add good flavor and aroma hops at 15/10/5/0/whirlpool/dryhop it can only help.

4. Maillard reactions can be desirable in some beers- but in an IIPA, not so much. I don't like a "cooked malt extract" flavor in IIPAs or too much caramelization character and I would definitely not do a super long boil in an IIPA.

5. No advantage in a relatively low OG beer in doing incremental feeding- won't hurt, but no advantage either.

6. I hate the hopping, and it's a too low OG for an IIPA. It looks like a firmly bitter caramelized lower ABV barley wine. It's not like a quaffable and hoppy IIPA that I would drink.

 

[carton132]

Beersmith puts that 8oz bittering addition at about 745 IBUs. Doesn't even factor in additional bitterness from later additions. While I've never had a beer that was too bitter, and have made some 200 IBU beers that I loved, even I think that is probably too extreme or at the very least wasteful!

Maybe scale it back to 1 or 2 ounces at the beginning of the boil and pile them on much, much later.

 

[Phunhog]

Don't understand why you would put 8 oz of hops for a bittering charge for a 3 gallon batch??!!! Plus isn't S-33 more of a Belgian style yeast? Not really appropriate for a IIPA. Since you are new to brewing here is my best advice....you don't need to reinvent the wheel!! Look at the HBT recipe database, pick a solid IIPA recipe, adjust it for 3 gallons, and brew it!! There is plenty of time to tweak to your specs. It's like playing music.....before you can jam/improvise you need to know how to do the basics first.

 

[dpatrickv]

Holy christ that is a ton of bittering hops. I'm a pretty damn big hophead but there is no way I would ever dump 8oz of even low AA hops in for bitterning. Are you using a recipe calculator?

Personally, I would drop the bittering charge to 1-2oz, drop it down to a 60 minute boil, add another couple pounds of base malt, and add a 15 minute and flameout addition of hops. Personally, if you are going to brew a typical IIPA, use us-05 or 1056 for yeast. If you are going for more of a belgian profile, feel free to stick with s-33.

Also, I am unsure of how many beers you have had with columbus used as a flavor/aroma hop but it can get pretty damn overpowering.

 

[Brian_]

Ok, point heard loud and clear about the bittering hops. How does this modified hop schedule look?
4oz Columbus (15%) at 120 min (!)
2oz Columbus (15%) at 30 min* (note: all hops in pellets)
2oz Columbus (15%) at 5 min*
(then more will get added for the dry hopping)
Clearly it's still bitter, but now within the limits of one's imagination? If the other hops that I listed would be better, please advise. I've read that for IIPAs it's not ideal to mix styles - so I didn't think it'd be good to use any of my EKG hops.

Yooper - the long boil was intended to bring my volume down because I was trying to avoid using extract. But if it can't be done without the Maillard reactions, then I might toss that plan. Is there a general consensus that a 2 hr boil would be too long for an IIPA? Low boil doesn't avoid that?

I am using brewing software, but I've also heard that actual IBUs are always lower than what the software predicts (for hoppy IIPAs).

thanks guys

 

[dpatrickv]

Ok, point heard loud and clear about the bittering hops. How does this modified hop schedule look?
4oz Columbus (15%) at 120 min (!)
2oz Columbus (15%) at 30 min* (note: all hops in pellets)
2oz Columbus (15%) at 5 min*
(then more will get added for the dry hopping)
Clearly it's still bitter, but now within the limits of one's imagination? If the other hops that I listed would be better, please advise. I've read that for IIPAs it's not ideal to mix styles - so I didn't think it'd be good to use any of my EKG hops.

Yooper - the long boil was intended to bring my volume down because I was trying to avoid using extract. But if it can't be done without the Maillard reactions, then I might toss that plan. Is there a general consensus that a 2 hr boil would be too long for an IIPA? Low boil doesn't avoid that?

I am using brewing software, but I've also heard that actual IBUs are always lower than what the software predicts (for hoppy IIPAs).

thanks guys

IBUs might be slightly lower but we are still talking over 400 ibus worth of JUST bittering hops. Damn, thats just too much.

I mean, ****, go ahead and do it if you want but that might very well turn out absolutely undrinkable.

I use a bunch of hops in basically everything but the highest ibu beer I have ever even created a recipe for has still been in the 150-165ish range.

 

[rattyboh]

It looks like that's still putting you close to 600 IBU. I get trying to add some extra hops to make sure it comes out good and hoppy but i'd say you're still overdoing it. I'm not sure how true it is but I had heard that you really can't get much past 100 IBU because of the maximum solubility of the alpha acids in wort. Above that the extra hops are basically wasted on theoretical IBUs with no real flavor differences. I feel like 3-4 ounces total would be more realistic for a 3 gallon batch


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[Nuggethead]

Ya.. what Yooper said.

Do a little research on what IIPA's are supposed to be before trying to create your own recipe and you won't be spending $$$ on a batch that will get poured in the driveway. Look at the recipes section and see how some of the proven recipes have been designed by other members. That should give you a starting point..