If you were opening a brewery in your area...

[lunchbox]

If you were opening a brewery in your area, would it be a good investment? Is there a market for craft beer in your city, or are their too many breweries already?

For example, I live in the Charlotte NC area with a population of just shy of one million people in the county. The craft beer scene is not huge, but it's been growing steadily. As of now there are seven or eight breweries, and I think that it could sustain one or two extra, but not much more than that.

So, what about your city?

 

[ktblunden]

Over the past two years two breweries have opened in my city. One is a brewpub which opened in the newly revitalized downtown area, the other is a tap room that opened in an industrial park. Both are doing quite well and a lot better than I expected for the area. I think the area could possibly support at least one more brewpub and possibly another taproom. We also just got a LHBS and the local homebrew club has quite a few members, so the beer scene here is on a pretty good track.

 

[grathan]

There is a great market for beer here as far as people willing to pay for beer. There is also at least 10 breweries within 30 miles. Some also have come and failed and gone. Drinking a $7 beer is not exciting enough on it's own though. With the addition of entertainment and good food one could always justify one more. IMHO without cigarette smoking drinking is pretty dull. I don't smoke anymore. I am just saying.

 

[kh54s10]

MHO without cigarette smoking drinking is pretty dull. I don't smoke anymore. I am just saying.

Not that it has changed my habits in going to bars.. I was never happier than when you could't smoke inside anymore. I hated the burning eyes and the reeking clothes afterward.

Banning indoor smoking IMO is one of the best ordinances ever!


Sorry for the ranting hijack.

 

[luke_d]

I live in Sacramento, and there are a few breweries, Rubicon Brewing Company, to name one. There are a few brewpubs in the surrounding areas and nano breweries as well. However they all seem to be ale based with not too much emphasis on lagers. please don't quote me on this! there may be some lager breweries here but my impression of the breweries seem to me like they're all directed towards the hop head crowd, which is fine because I am one of those. However ifI were to open a brewery here in Sacramento I'd probably go for a lager based brewery so I could have something that sets me apart, thus bringing in some more business.

 

[unionrdr]

Used to be a brewery in Lorain,but prohibition took care of that. Not to mention the classic ones in Cleveland & some other Ohio cities. As far as craft breweries,or brewpubs,the closest one is in North Olmstead,about 1/2 hour away. We need a good brewpub around here. Wish I had the money,& since my daughter is a chef...her & one or two others are pushing me to open a brewery. They love my beers,but who's got 10-100K for start up & licencing?

 

[smokinghole]

It depends on the type of brewery/brew pub. If they make IPAs, APAs, and the normal german lagers/english/american ales I'd say no. The city being Harrisburg, PA. If it was a place that specialized in more Belgian or sour ales I think it'd find its own niche. I feel the market everywhere is saturated with mainstream IPAs and APAs. When I go to a taproom and all I see is IPA taps I get disappointed. It's not the only style but it is probably the most popular. I like IPAs but I also like to drink other stuff. So when there's a new brewery and I see all they have is a bunch of hoppy beers I don't even visit because how different can this new place's IPA/APA really be compared to established breweries? To me it's one of those scenarios where the industry is at a point of maturity, and saturation, that just making a solid IPA/APA or whatever isn't enough now compared to when brewing an IPA was a more "extreme" style 15 years ago.

 

[GrogNerd]

we're starting to get oversaturated in our area. can't swing a dead lawyer in this town without hitting a brewery

what we need is a LHBS

but it is nice to go to a taproom with 50 taps. we also have a new cinema drafthouse that just opened up (we're going to see WWZ there tonight) with 30 taps

 

[grathan]

Not that it has changed my habits in going to bars.. I was never happier than when you could't smoke inside anymore. I hated the burning eyes and the reeking clothes afterward.

Banning indoor smoking IMO is one of the best ordinances ever!


Sorry for the ranting hijack.

I don't disagree. I cannot stand be around smoke.

 

[unionrdr]

We could use both around here. LHBS is in Westlake,Brewpub is in North Olmstead. Breweries like Thirsty Dog & Hoppin' Frog are in Akron,2-2.5 hours one way from here. The Dollar Tree moved kitty corner across the intersection from my side. The store in the Giant Eagle plaza is still empty. I'd like to turn it into a brewpub/pit bbq/LHBS. It's certainly just big enough for all 3. I'd do maybe 2 IPA's english & American pale ales,English bitter,maybe a milk stout. That kinda stuff.

 

[pdxal]

Not sure the Portland, Oregon area can handle more. We have a population in the city of about 600,000, and 2.2 million in the metro area and there are 52 breweries within the city limits and 65+ in the area. Then again, more breweries keep opening and surviving. Most are going after a niche these days, though.

 

[jjadamsfb]

It feels like in Vermont that we might be getting saturated. I think for a state of a population of 650k we have around 22ish breweries and more brands distributed in this state than Texas. No joke. You would have to be awesome to brew here.

 

[biochemedic]

If you were opening a brewery in your area, would it be a good investment? Is there a market for craft beer in your city, or are their too many breweries already?

For example, I live in the Charlotte NC area with a population of just shy of one million people in the county. The craft beer scene is not huge, but it's been growing steadily. As of now there are seven or eight breweries, and I think that it could sustain one or two extra, but not much more than that.

I think you could be right...I also live in the greater CLT area, and I think if they chose the right area, another brewery/brewpub could work. Obviously NoDa is saturated, but I think one could survive in the Pineville area, for example. It's a bit of a drive (just far enough to be inconvenient) for me to get to NoDa (I live at the edge of Gaston Co. bordering Mecklenburg), so I'd obviously like to see something out my way too...

For a while, the owner of Alternative Beverage had been in planning stages to open a meadery right here in Belmont next to their warehouse store, but last I've heard that's on hold. I had been pretty excited about that concept, and I really hope he revives it eventually...I think it would be really great both for Belmont, as well as for the local craft scene...

 

[PackerfaninSanDiego]

you better have some damn fine beer, with most areas getting saturated.. You better have a killer IPA, the breweries with so-so beer won't last. Two have closed their doors here. Some breweries are also distilling.

 

[ktblunden]

you better have some damn fine beer, with most areas getting saturated.. You better have a killer IPA, the breweries with so-so beer won't last. Two have closed their doors here. Some breweries are also distilling.

These days it seems like you could stand out in SD by making something other than IPAs. I love them, but the entire county has total hop saturation.

 

[PackerfaninSanDiego]

These days it seems like you could stand out in SD by making something other than IPAs. I love them, but the entire county has total hop saturation.

I know what you are saying,,,,if you don't have an IPA, they won't come.

 

[Dovage]

Over the past two years two breweries have opened in my city. One is a brewpub which opened in the newly revitalized downtown area, the other is a tap room that opened in an industrial park. Both are doing quite well and a lot better than I expected for the area. I think the area could possibly support at least one more brewpub and possibly another taproom. We also just got a LHBS and the local homebrew club has quite a few members, so the beer scene here is on a pretty good track.

Are you in Fort Myers? This is whats going on here. Though I didn't think the one downtown was opening until this fall. There is another tap room opening closer to Fort Myers beach.

 

[Beezy]

All the breweries here are at capacity. They aren't even that good must of them. We could easily double the amount of breweries. I would do half brett and sours. There is a huge demand and the breweries here are not doing them properly.

 

[Beezy]

These days it seems like you could stand out in SD by making something other than IPAs. I love them, but the entire county has total hop saturation.

I bet IPAs is 80% of the craft market. It would be hard for me to have a brewery and not make one. But stand out by being focused / specialized and don't have the standard list of brew pub favorites.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

If you were opening a brewery in your area, would it be a good investment? Is there a market for craft beer in your city, or are their too many breweries already?

For example, I live in the Charlotte NC area with a population of just shy of one million people in the county. The craft beer scene is not huge, but it's been growing steadily. As of now there are seven or eight breweries, and I think that it could sustain one or two extra, but not much more than that.

So, what about your city?

I'm in Winston-Salem. You have of course heard of Foothills, but we have 2 more soon to open downtown. I couldn't believe it. I feel like one could make a killing down near me near the Davidson county line(dry county).

 

[Darwin18]

Raleigh has a great craft beer scene. I wouldn't personally would not open a brewery to assume that financial risk with the profit margins being so small.

 

[Euphist]

This is something I have been pondering lately. West Virginia has only a handful (4-6) of breweries in the entire state, and none in the region that I am in. The nearest town, while small, has a lot more retail than it should be able to support because it services a large portion of the Ohio River Valley.

So it would seem that a small brewpub could make it IF there is enough interest in quality beer. THIS is the part that I'm not sure of. One of my neighbors thinks he's a beer snob because he drinks Coors Light instead of Bud Light!

 

[smokinghole]

I bet IPAs is 80% of the craft market. It would be hard for me to have a brewery and not make one. But stand out by being focused / specialized and don't have the standard list of brew pub favorites.

Its my opinion that most breweries that do brett or sour beers don't do them very well in the US. They think they can just throw brett in any belgian ale and it will be good. I had a Arias BPA with brett I drank half the glass and poured it and the rest of the bottle down the drain. I have too much tasty beer in my house to choke down a plasticy phenolic bandaidy BPA with oxidized hop flavors.

There are so many breweries that have people with out professional training (not that it's absolutely necessary) that started in the 90s. They made it this far and they are still making beer in a mediocre fashion that they did back in 1998. I think some places are only still in business because they had been in business for 15 years. If they were to start up now they'd be shut down with in three or four years. The same goes for new startups it seems. There are people that have homebrewed and decided to go pro. I tasted some beer from a place that is brewing nano style outside of Wilkes-barre. I had their amber lager and it was oxidized to hell and very bland. A new brewery will only be novelty for so long and once the first time customers stop coming the brewery is kaput. I'm sorry to say this but when I have a bad beer from a new brewery it keeps me from trying anything else from them. If you're new I think you should only put out solid product. If you don't you are shooting yourself in your foot. If you cannot release solid product don't waste your money/time. If you can't tell the difference between solid product and bad beer, get unbiased feedback. These businesses must be able to take criticism, good or bad, especially bad.

If a brewery plans on not being a brewpub you better have great beers because the shelf space battles are just beginning. Sierra Nevada, New Belgium, Laguanitas, and Victory are all expanding in big ways. They will need to pay for their new breweries and will need shelf space to do just that. So if you have just another pale ale or pilsner think again. It might work for a one time order, but if the beer doesn't leave a flame from flying off the shelf, it won't be stocked again.

 

[brewfreeordie]

The mircro-brewery license in our state has really opened the market here in NH. There are two breweries, two tap houses and an excellent LHBS less than 5 miles from my house.

What/s different compared to others in the state is that these are straight breweries, actually in existence to make and sell beer as a business model. Most "breweries" in our state are in fact a leader to get you to buy an $8 sandwich and a $20 tee-shirt. Not complaining, but just because you've got a copper kettle in your lobby doesn't mean you actually MAKE the beer you sell. Many are re-branded big commercials. Reminds me of when the Olive Garden had someone out front making pasta.

 

[mikescooling]

City prices for a beer start at 10$, places are packed. Chicago will make you or break you, but ether way you have to pay the Man.

 

[ktblunden]

Are you in Fort Myers? This is whats going on here. Though I didn't think the one downtown was opening until this fall. There is another tap room opening closer to Fort Myers beach.

Lancaster, CA.

 

[ktblunden]

If a brewery plans on not being a brewpub you better have great beers because the shelf space battles are just beginning. Sierra Nevada, New Belgium, Laguanitas, and Victory are all expanding in big ways. They will need to pay for their new breweries and will need shelf space to do just that. So if you have just another pale ale or pilsner think again. It might work for a one time order, but if the beer doesn't leave a flame from flying off the shelf, it won't be stocked again.

I think starting a new brewery thinking you'll be able to break into the shelf space market is setting yourself up for failure these days. Although, if your state allows it, a taproom that isn't a brewpub seems to be the easiest and cheapest way to get into the market and realize profit. You get to sell all your beer over your own counter without the massive overhead of operating a restaurant at the same time.

 

[Sacdan]

I am in Sacramento and actually am opening a Brewery. We have our ABC and TTB approval already. Waiting on bank funding that is supposed to be approved in the next few weeks. We have had our location since Oct. we specialize in Barrel aged beers. We make IPAs, Pale Ales, Stouts, Porters, etc. We also have a restaurant going in. Sacramento is the new Portland. You can check us out on Facebook or at www.TwelveRoundsBrewing.com or 12brews.com.

 

[ktblunden]

The mircro-brewery license in our state has really opened the market here in NH. There are two breweries, two tap houses and an excellent LHBS less than 5 miles from my house.

What/s different compared to others in the state is that these are straight breweries, actually in existence to make and sell beer as a business model. Most "breweries" in our state are in fact a leader to get you to buy an $8 sandwich and a $20 tee-shirt. Not complaining, but just because you've got a copper kettle in your lobby doesn't mean you actually MAKE the beer you sell. Many are re-branded big commercials. Reminds me of when the Olive Garden had someone out front making pasta.

I have a big issue with restaurants that calls themselves a brewery while having someone else contract brew their beer. If you don't brew beer you are not a brewery.

 

[gregkeller]

I live in the most populous county in nj. We have almost 1million people and no breweries, brewpubs.

I take that back, there is one brewery but they contract brew out of the county and have just opened up.

I think my local area is ripe for an awesome brewpub. Key would be great food and equally good beer.

 

[Weezy]

We could use both around here. LHBS is in Westlake,Brewpub is in North Olmstead. Breweries like Thirsty Dog & Hoppin' Frog are in Akron,2-2.5 hours one way from here. The Dollar Tree moved kitty corner across the intersection from my side. The store in the Giant Eagle plaza is still empty. I'd like to turn it into a brewpub/pit bbq/LHBS. It's certainly just big enough for all 3. I'd do maybe 2 IPA's english & American pale ales,English bitter,maybe a milk stout. That kinda stuff.

big thumbs up for just using Giant Eagle in a post. Heehee

We have a fair number and a few have opened recently. The new ones are very small. Unfortunately, taps are still dominated by larger craft and big brewers. We're also seeing some distilleries opening and at least one is traditionally a beer brewer but feels liquor is a better move. I think we'll see more small brew pubs selling only in-house at their restaurant.

edit: what ktblunden said.

 

[ghosthef]

Your market analysis will help you determine if there is a strong demand for a small brewery in addition to what will work in your area. Fundamental rule though...location location location...if you don't pick it right,...you may struggle. Some markets have seen triple digit growth in the past few years...so there is certainly a demand out there,...especially if, as others have already commented on, you can throw in entertainment and decent food.

 

[unionrdr]

There's a lot of DJ stuff around here for years. Not like when we were young & the local/regional bands were the big draw. I'm quite sure at least the pit bbq/brewpub thing would work. I-90 within a stone's throw,Mike Bass Ford right across the highway. So is Quaker steak & lube with bike nights,& hot rod/muscle/tuner car shows. They get some serious big buck hardware over there. If I could attract them with good beer/ale,etc with pit bbq,it'd be great.

 

[bmckenzie]

My wife and I just returned from Bend Oregon. They have a chamber of commerce promo that is called the ale trail. It consist of 13 breweries in a city of 80,000. One is a large craft brewer (Deschutes) the rest are small ( 5-7 barrel) operations, most serve a pub menu and most seem to making a living, a few look like they may not make it because of bad location, and a couple because of bad beer.
Every brewery seemed to have all the hop head stuff , triples , barrel aged, imperial , high % stuff, but very few had any easy drinking German, Belgian, or session beers
A lot of breweries for a small population` but they were all busy.

 

[pdxal]

I am in Sacramento and actually am opening a Brewery. We have our ABC and TTB approval already. Waiting on bank funding that is supposed to be approved in the next few weeks. We have had our location since Oct. we specialize in Barrel aged beers. We make IPAs, Pale Ales, Stouts, Porters, etc. We also have a restaurant going in. Sacramento is the new Portland. You can check us out on Facebook or at www.TwelveRoundsBrewing.com or 12brews.com.

Okay. :fro:

 

[mytommygundont]

In Denver you can do the tap room thing. This is huge because you are treated like the neighborhood bar. Distribution is a step in the process but not the first step.

As for saturation: If I'm looking to go to a brewery that is outside of my "neighborhood", I am much more likely to go to an area that has more than one brewery. There is an entire population of beer hunters here. They would rather drink at several places in a day and taste all of the one off beers. And judging from opening days at several breweries lately (chaos, madness), there is plenty of interest in new breweries entering the market.

In summation-I would say Denver is still a great place to open a brewery.

 

[Mongrel]

I am in Sacramento and actually am opening a Brewery. We have our ABC and TTB approval already. Waiting on bank funding that is supposed to be approved in the next few weeks. We have had our location since Oct. we specialize in Barrel aged beers. We make IPAs, Pale Ales, Stouts, Porters, etc. We also have a restaurant going in. Sacramento is the new Portland. You can check us out on Facebook or at www.TwelveRoundsBrewing.com or 12brews.com.

We talked about this (what 2 years ago?) at OBF. Glad it's finally happening. Best of luck!

 

[Dovage]

I think starting a new brewery thinking you'll be able to break into the shelf space market is setting yourself up for failure these days. Although, if your state allows it, a taproom that isn't a brewpub seems to be the easiest and cheapest way to get into the market and realize profit. You get to sell all your beer over your own counter without the massive overhead of operating a restaurant at the same time.

The fist "brewery" here in Fort Myers, is just that, a tap room. The owners still work there 9-5's and are only open on Fridays, and Saturdays. So far the response has far exceeded expectations. They started in an industrial park unit.
Another tap room is opening up this month, the owners also are keeping there 9-5 jobs. I'm assuming both will change things once (or if), they become profitable.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,I'm retired from Ford,so I have the time. Now if I could get the venture capitol?... i've been told by a few people recently that I should open a brewery. My daughter the chef & shop owner is pushing me to open one.

 

[ktblunden]

As for saturation: If I'm looking to go to a brewery that is outside of my "neighborhood", I am much more likely to go to an area that has more than one brewery. There is an entire population of beer hunters here. They would rather drink at several places in a day and taste all of the one off beers. And judging from opening days at several breweries lately (chaos, madness), there is plenty of interest in new breweries entering the market.

That's a very good point. I plan beer trips based on proximity. If there's one brewery all by itself somewhere with no others near it I'm not likely to hit it unless I'll be nearby anyway.