If you had to buy it all over again, what chiller would you get?

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

I have used just about everything to cool my wort. I have a 25' IC that I used to use. It worked but not great, and seemed to take too long for me. I then got a pump pond and started recirculating the water through an ice bath. This worked much better, but still seemed to take too long for me. I just got a march pump and a therminator, and now I am very happy with my cooling. I recirculate the wort back into the kettle until it gets below 140, and then straight into the fermenter. When the heat of summer comes along I now have everything I need to prechill and recirculate the water to get the temps down to lager range even in the summer.

Ed

 

[stevehaun]

THERMINATOR!
I used to have a chillzilla. It used to take me about 60 min to chill 30 gallons of wort to 70F. The therminator cut my chilling time in half - UNTIL a friend of my son pointed out that I was running the chilling water the wrong direction. I switched the hoses to get a countercurrent flow and I could not get my wort above 60F with my March pump running wide open. My ground water is between 50 and 55F. I added a ball valve to the cooling water "in" fitting on my therminator so I can easily cut back my chilling water flow. Next batch is a lager and I am looking forward to seeing how fast I can chill 30 gallons of wort to 60F.

 

[beerthirty]

AZ, I made the https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/hell-earth-wort-chiller-73315/ for high temp ground water and it worked excellent considering the restriction in flow going through 3/8 copper. We were able to cool 1 5G batch and 1 10G batch in about 25 minutes. I recently acquired one of M 20 Plate Brazed Heat Exchanger Boiler Wood Furnace - eBay (item 260378353239 end time Apr-15-09 06:31:07 PDT) . the flow rate is amazing through this puppy. There is almost no restriction in flow of wort or cooling water and I was able to cool 11G in a single pass in about 15 minutes to 75 degrees. Unfortunately my ground water here on the west side won't get much colder than 75-80 without prechillin so I'm satisfied with the new chiller. Pm me I still have the "hell on earth" and it will gravity flow.

 

[Sawdustguy]

If I could afford it I would get this one on EBay: E 60 Plate Copper Brazed Heat Exchanger - eBay (item 260300099815 end time May-11-09 14:55:43 PDT). It is rated to 70 Kilowatts.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I used a gravity setup for mine for 5-6 brews. Worked great, but nowhere near the flow that you get with a pump. The higher up you have the boil kettle, the faster the flow will be.

I just use gravity and It doesn't take to long. maybe 15 minutes to drain into my fermenter. it currently chills in a single pass down to 65 with valve full open. That will change when ground water heats up and then I'll just use my pond pump from my IC to pump cold water through it instead of my water spigot.

If I could afford it I would get this one on EBay: E 60 Plate Copper Brazed Heat Exchanger - eBay (item 260300099815 end time May-11-09 14:55:43 PDT). It is rated to 70 Kilowatts.

If I could afford 700 bucks for a chiller I'd have one Bad A** Brewery!

 

[rico567]

I think the choice of chillers is too dependent on how one brews to have a single answer. The two factors would appear to be batch size and the temperature of the water source. I brew strictly 5 gallon full boils, and my well water stays <55F year round. My plain-jane Midwest copper immersion chiller (the entry level $50 model) will take that full 5 gallons from boiling to <70F in 15-20 min., depending on how enthusiastically I stir the wort. That's plenty fast for me, and gives me nice clear beer.

 

[Bobby_M]

If I could afford it I would get this one on EBay: E 60 Plate Copper Brazed Heat Exchanger - eBay (item 260300099815 end time May-11-09 14:55:43 PDT). It is rated to 70 Kilowatts.

That's pretty much what I have now but I grabbed it for $100 on Ebay:



I've had all three types of chillers so far and they all have their pros and cons. I've mentioned before that as soon as anyone points out a "con" of any type, another will followup with their solution to that con (sometimes revealing another weakness of their chiller in the process).

I'll give you what I think the pros and cons are and let you think about them in terms of your goals and process.

IC:
pro: Easiest to sanitize and clean, Cheapest price, best choice if you don't have a pump. You can physically see if it's dirty. It does NOT steal any of your wort. Chills the entire column of wort at the same time to lock in hop aroma. Doesn't care about hop and break debris. Easy to build DIY.
con: Need to physically move it into the kettle, must have wort whirlpooling to chill efficiently which is a manual process if you don't have a pump, uses the most water considering a fixed temperature drop. Chilling remains a separate step from fermenter transfer (added time to brew day).

CFC:
pro: Moderate price, uses less water than IC, Chilling is same step as fermenter transfer (subtract time from brew day). Easy to build as a DIY.
con:You can't physically see if it's dirty. Whole hops can clog it without moderate straining mechanism. Requires a pump to be easy to use (faster chilling, sanitizing and general utility even though you CAN gravity drain through it). Can sometimes lock up a portion of wort in the coil. Leaves a portion of hot wort in the kettle waiting while you chill (potential DMS production and loss of hop aroma if you can't run the wort out fast enough)*here's where someone will mention running the output back into the kettle to solve this problem but make sure you understand it requires a pump.

Plate
pro: Uses least amount of water, Chilling is same step as fermenter transfer (subtract time from brew day). Most physically compact of all chillers.
con:Cannot build as a DIY, likely the most expensive to buy.You can't physically see if it's dirty. ANY hop debris can clog it without a good straining mechanism. Requires a pump to be easy to use (faster chilling, sanitizing and general utility even though you CAN gravity drain through it). Can lock up a portion of wort in the chambers if you don't hold it up to drain it. Leaves a portion of hot wort in the kettle waiting while you chill (potential DMS production and loss of hop aroma if you can't run the wort out fast enough)*here's where someone will mention running the output back into the kettle to solve this problem but make sure you understand it requires a pump.


Notice that the differences between CFC and Plate are minimal. The plate gives you a slight efficiency increase for a smaller package but requires careful straining also with an added price premium.

ALL of these chillers can only chill as cold as the incoming coolant water. If your tap water is above 75F, they will ALL require use of icewater at some point.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Good comparison Bobby! What range of flow rates did you find were the best? I bought one of those 340gph pond pumps from HD for my small IC but I wish I'd have bought the 525gph (at least). I think those are rated @ 1' head.

EDITED to change flow rate units.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Welll, if we are talking money being no object.......

I once priced a custom plate and frame chiller from, IIRC, Accu-Therm. Approximately the same size as the Therminator using SS and Buna N.

Price wasn't bad actually. $1000.00 Shipped.

To me that would be the best of all worlds. Plate type efficiency with easy cleaning capabilities.

 

[PseudoChef]

I own/use a Shirron plate chiller with no pump. I flow gravity (8 gallon batches) and don't have much of a problem. However, that said (and what BK has already said) the most effective solution is the recirculating immersion chiller.

This is simply because it cools the entire body of wort the quickest. Yes, the plate/CFC cools the wort, but at the same time, you have the majority still sitting in the kettle (which is more of a problem the larger your batch sizes are) at near boiling temperatures. Even if you are recirculating using a plate chiller/CFC, the immersion chiller + reciric is still going to bring the body wort temperature down the quickest.

 

[Catt22]

(snip) However, that said (and what BK has already said) the most effective solution is the recirculating immersion chiller.

(snip)Even if you are recirculating using a plate chiller/CFC, the immersion chiller + reciric is still going to bring the body wort temperature down the quickest.

Until now, that is! I'm pretty sure my chiller could hold it's own with any IC. I use the recirc back to the kettle with a pump method. It's fast! Cheap to build too:

The final connections aren't shown in these pics. There's a water inlet and outlet on the PVC and adapters on the copper for the wort. I can post more pics showing these if there's any interest.

 

[GoBrewers]

I used to use an IC but recently made the switch to a Shirron plate chiller and I couldn't be happier with it. Gravity feeding a 5 gallon batch is no problem and in the time it takes to rack into the fetmentor the wort temp is below 60F.

Visually, the improvement in cold break has been dramatic. With an inline chiller (plate or CFC), you are dropping the temp of a given volume of wort in just a few seconds (ie the time it takes that volume to pass through the chiller). Compare that to the 15-25 minutes it will take to chill that same volume of wort with an IC. In terms of cold break quality, there's no comparison. And DMS production in the pre-chilled wort is not a factor.

You can alleviate the risk of plugging it up with any number of hop filters on your kettle outflow (SS braid, washing machine lint trap, Brillo pad, etc.). And cleaning/sanitization is as easy as running PBW/Starsan through it. If it's brew day, you already have those solutions made up already anyway, right?

So I would definitely reccommend making or buying a CFC or plate chiller. They might be a little more work but they're just better.

 

[brewt00l]

I started out with an IC and then purchased a plate chiller. I still use both but I really dig the one pass convenience of the plate.

 

[bob1852]

Thanks for all the great thoughts, comments, and personal experience.

May I suggest that Bobby's comparison get's snipped and added to Llama's "vs." thread (if something like that isn't already there; haven't looked close enough).

I was leaning towards the 50' IC since I don't have a spigot on my brew pot, and it's the method I'm used to, but now I'm leaning towards a plate chiller.

 

[humann_brewing]

Personally I am not seeing a good reason to upgrade my basic and small IC. I am not sure of the length, probably 15-25ft (big range I know but it was given to me and I know nothing other than it works).

The point is that my method of putting the brew pot on the top step of the pool (the 50* water over the winter really helped but still helps when it's 70* now) with the sanitized chiller in it, I them walk over and turn on the hose, walk back over to the pot, grab the inlet hose and start moving it around in and out of the water, splashing, circular motions whatever which is how I get a lot of oxygen into the wort and my main goal is to get below the 140* mark which is done in about 3 minutes. I continue pretty vigorously until I am under 100* which is another 3-4 minutes then I let it sit and get the fermentor ready if it is not already and within 5 minutes it is in the 70s and ready for the primary.

Granted this is only with 5 gallon batches and will need to upgrade if I go to 10 gallon batches most likely but this works too good to upgrade my chiller right now.

 

[Catt22]

Personally I am not seeing a good reason to upgrade my basic and small IC. I am not sure of the length, probably 15-25ft (big range I know but it was given to me and I know nothing other than it works).

The point is that my method of putting the brew pot on the top step of the pool (the 50* water over the winter really helped but still helps when it's 70* now) with the sanitized chiller in it, I them walk over and turn on the hose, walk back over to the pot, grab the inlet hose and start moving it around in and out of the water, splashing, circular motions whatever which is how I get a lot of oxygen into the wort and my main goal is to get below the 140* mark which is done in about 3 minutes. I continue pretty vigorously until I am under 100* which is another 3-4 minutes then I let it sit and get the fermentor ready if it is not already and within 5 minutes it is in the 70s and ready for the primary.

Granted this is only with 5 gallon batches and will need to upgrade if I go to 10 gallon batches most likely but this works too good to upgrade my chiller right now.

It's not a good idea to splash around in the hot wort. The risk is hot side aeration which can result in oxidation of the wort. Aeration or oxygenation should only be done when the wort is 100 deg F or under IIRC.

Your IC is working a lot faster than mine ever did. Getting down to 75 F seemed to take forever, especially in the warmer weather when the tap water was not as cold.

 

[Yambor44]

I started with a small IC when I was doing 5 gallon batches. I switched to a homemade CFC a few brews back. I love the one pass transfer as I use an ice bath and sometimes have to wait for my wort to warm up as it comes out at 48 degrees.

That being said, I have been researching recirculating in my Mash Tun for mashing and also my BK. I had a batch recently (10 gallon) that half was the best beer I ever made and the other half had a funny sweet, malty, caramel kinda taste (Memory Lapse Pale Ale). A friend who brews and has for over 20 years said it could be oxygen. I think it could also be from the wort sitting too long in the BK at near boiling temps waiting to pass thru the CFC. I don't know what DMS tastes like. I think I asked before on another thread but cannot remember the answer nor find it.


I am going to try my IC again and use my pump to recirculate the wort to create a whirlpool to not only expedite the chilling but also move the trub/hop break to the center away from my drain in the BK.

All that being said I think the OP should use a 25' 3/8" IC for 5 gallon brews or a 50 foot ½" for 10 gallons. Then down the road he can add a pump and recirculate if he wants.

 

[bob1852]

Thanks for everyone's input - it seems to me that that IC is my best fit.

I will be doing mostly 5 gallon batches - occassionally 10 gallon batches, and I don't have a spigot on my brew pot, and I don't have any pumps, and I live at a high elevation so my tap water is pretty chilly.

I know the CFC and plate chillers work great; but quite honestly, I'll capture the water I run through the IC and use it in the garden. The extra work to maintain/clean a CFC or plate just doesn't seem worth it to me at this time -- unless someone can talk me out of it.

I like the thought of dunking an IC into the wort and getting the job done.

 

[Yambor44]

Thanks for everyone's input - it seems to me that that IC is my best fit.

I will be doing mostly 5 gallon batches - occassionally 10 gallon batches, and I don't have a spigot on my brew pot, and I don't have any pumps, and I live at a high elevation so my tap water is pretty chilly.

I know the CFC and plate chillers work great; but quite honestly, I'll capture the water I run through the IC and use it in the garden. The extra work to maintain/clean a CFC or plate just doesn't seem worth it to me at this time -- unless someone can talk me out of it.

I like the thought of dunking an IC into the wort and getting the job done.

You can also use the first captured water (the hotest) to clean up afterwards. Make sure not to run the hot, hot water straight onto grass or the garden as it can kill the vegetation.

 

[bob1852]

okay, I bought a CFC today from my NLHBS.....

he gave me a pretty good price, and it just seemed like a good buy.

 

[Yambor44]

okay, I bought a CFC today from my NLHBS.....

he gave me a pretty good price, and it just seemed like a good buy.

You got a CFC or an IC? Just asking cause you said you were gonna buy an IC as you didn't have a pump or spigot on your BK.

 

[bob1852]

You got a CFC or an IC? Just asking cause you said you were gonna buy an IC as you didn't have a pump or spigot on your BK.

a CFC -- now I need at least a spigot, but will probably get a pump eventually

 

[Coastarine]

I've got a 25' copper in cheap garden hose CFC and a self-priming pump on the cold side to draw the wort through. I've been using it for something like 6 months and I love it. I'd go with it again.

 

[Catt22]

I've got a 25' copper in cheap garden hose CFC and a self-priming pump on the cold side to draw the wort through. I've been using it for something like 6 months and I love it. I'd go with it again.

What brand of pump are you using? I'd like to find a good self priming pump at a reasonable price.