If you are going to grow hops, please do it right

[Randar]

Haha, yup! Lemon balm. Bee balm is similar, but a bit more spicy than lemony.

And it's CRAZY invasive.

 

[davis119]

any one remember when this had the chance to be a good informative thread ?

 

[TyTanium]

Yeah, my bad for sidetracking (but informative sidetracking, no?). Still is a good, informative thread. E.g., Randar's post above - I did not know that Beebalm is crazy invasive.

 

[bhughes]

Maybe if you burried a huge cistern. Rain barrels for a whole lawn? They don't even keep up with my berries and tomatoes!

Nevermind... this.

Yes, but you're assuming I have a big lawn.

Actually I do have a big lawn but luckily I do have the well water. But here in NC, centipede grass loves the heat and is very drought tolerant.

I have a 2-bin compost pile myself. I end up with a lot of compostable material from my lawn clippings, leaves in the fall, coffee grinds/filters, leftover food, and all the weeds I pull from my grass. I love how I can have it almost full, then check back a couple weeks later and it's shrunk to like half the size. This is only my second year growing hops, so I put compost around them a few weeks ago, but I'll have to read up on how to fertilize them as they get going this summer.

 

[TyTanium]

...I love how I can have it almost full, then check back a couple weeks later and it's shrunk to like half the size.

Agreed. Still amazes me...where's it all go?

IME good compost is plenty sufficient fertilizer for hops. But I'm not comparing it to anything else.

 

[Randar]

Yeah, my bad for sidetracking (but informative sidetracking, no?). Still is a good, informative thread. E.g., Randar's post above - I did not know that Beebalm is crazy invasive.

It's not... lemon balm is!


Sorry, my bad for not being more clear.

 

[bhughes]

I'm just growing my hops for fun and taking advantage of the free energy the sun is providing to help supply my home brewing hobby. I'm not worried about fertilizing them to a science to maximize my yeild. I might add a little slow release fert at some point when there growing like crazy but that's about it.

 

[Randar]

This is only my second year growing hops, so I put compost around them a few weeks ago, but I'll have to read up on how to fertilize them as they get going this summer.

Nitrogen early, potassium after spurs form. Source of said nutrients is up to you.

A very well-traveled link round these parts:
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/fg/fg79-e.pdf

 

[paulster2626]

paulster,

The biggest problem you'll encounter by planting them adjacent to a grass area is that if the rhizomes spread underground into the grass area which they probably will, you'll never know it until you don't mow the grass for a month. You'll see some tiny little serpent heads poking out above the grass and when you take a closer look you'll realize that's them. So if you ever decide to sell the house, make sure the grass is cut and looks pretty before you sign the papers (hahaha).

Not to worry my friend! My grass grows like a pile of poo so any hop-spreading will be most-welcome!

If I ever sell this place, I plan on returning every fall to harvest the old crop.

 

[B-Hoppy]

Right on! The garlic that doesn't make the cut for planting in the Fall gets tossed out in the yard. Adds for an interesting texture when things get growing the following Spring. Must be a good bit of 'N' in the garlic, or the sulfur compounds that are released lower the pH because those spots get really nice and dark green. Still haven't figured that one out yet. Hop to it . . .

 

[conpewter]

gosh I love the clover lawn idea btw Thinking of overseeding with that to see if I can slowly convert the new lawn.

Do you mow it?

 

[conpewter]

LOL! Didn't help that you also picked 3 of the worst-growing varieties in our region! Looks like a nail in the coffin, for sure.

Really? They have been growing great for me, way too many to harvest even. Just moving will force me to relocate them. I haven't done much with them, just some compost every year and hang up strings for them. Also planted garlic near them... though lately I've had more time to enjoy the garlic than the hops

 

[TyTanium]

gosh I love the clover lawn idea btw Thinking of overseeding with that to see if I can slowly convert the new lawn.

Do you mow it?

It's clover mixed with grass, not 100% clover, so does require mowing. Also mowing keeps the clover compact - it can get a little leggy. But I have other border areas that I don't mow at all, nice transition actually.

 

[Dougan]

Thank you, Good luck with that composter...your trash will be a lot lighter.

Yeah the Bluegill thing is the easiest trick in the world, though I am probably going to piss some PETA folks off by saying it

As a kid my dad would make me catch carp so he could plant them in the garden. You could easily tell where we had put the carp because the beans were way more healthy in that area.

The added mercury gives the veggies a good crisp flavor, too.

 

[B-Hoppy]

One of those songs that just stays in your head. This one's been rattling around since the early 80's. Eat them up YUM!

 

[Randar]

Really? They have been growing great for me, way too many to harvest even. Just moving will force me to relocate them. I haven't done much with them, just some compost every year and hang up strings for them. Also planted garlic near them... though lately I've had more time to enjoy the garlic than the hops

Fuggle and hallertau don't produce for **** in their homeland! Fuggle here is just brutally bad, IMO... grow it next to a Cascade, Magnum, Columbus, Nugget, etc and you will see what I mean. Might have just been me, but my Mt Hood, Willamette, Fuggle, and Hallertau all looked like sickly diseased plants and rarely produces much in comparison... I noticed the trend and ripped those out. Hops in their place in the same spot do great (Golding, Magnum, CTZ, etc).

 

[KoedBrew]

Nice conversations, A couple things I'd like to chime in about...

To Badbrew- I have been treating my gardens this way for 3 years, and I will never have a problem with drainage, because my soil doesn't compact...I practice this method and went from hard packed dirt, to where now I can stick my arm 8-10 inces in my soil before it gets too compact for me to go further.

If you would like to believe that a chemical from a bottle works better than the way nature works (with a little help) then feel free to use it. I am just talking from my experience.
I have weeds that pop up, but they either don't bother anything or just die...I hardly worry about weeds.

For those of you in Dry Climates or have clay soils...Try Hugelkulture.
I did this for my Willamette hops and last year I never watered them and got just as good production as the ones I watered without.
Basically with Hugelkulture you dig a deep area where your garden is going to be, throw in some huge logs from dead trees (any untreated wood). I put mine about 2 feet down, then mixed the soil I put back into the hole on top of the logs with some good compost.

Those logs will act as a Sponge in the bottom of your garden bed and once your hops are established the roots will reach down and grab hold of the moist logs and take care of some water issues. It also helps with clay soils because when you create this initial gardenbed you loosen the soils and can mix it to make it work...some people raise them up. Look it up

 

[KoedBrew]

Just a little piggyback on something above, tilling your soil every year for a garden is bad practice. Unless you are tearing up some grass (starting a new bed).

When you till soil you only turn up the top 3-4 inches??
What happens when you till? First you compact the soil underneath that 3-4 inches of till. Then, you destroy the natural ecosystem of bacteria and worms and the natural balance of PH layering.
If you don't till, but do what I talked about in the first post you will grow your garden beds and they will always produce.

The till method of gardening is old school and I will probably hurt some peoples feelings saying this, but its true. The #1 Export of the U.S. every year is top soil because of all the tilling of the midwest farms and the soil blowing into the Mississippi and then taken to the Gulf of Mexico.
Look up Joel Salatin from Polyface farms...he had to raise his fence posts up because the soil levels were growing on his farm and his fenceposts were too short.

But I digress...Sorry if I sounded a little preachy

 

[Mikethepoolguy]

There are websites like Gardenweb.com if you want to talk about growing clover, catnip, and tomatoes. As a experienced gardener and landscaper, but a novice at growing HOPS, I have found this thread to be more annoying than informative.

 

[Randar]

There are websites like Gardenweb.com if you want to talk about growing clover, catnip, and tomatoes. As a experienced gardener and landscaper, but a novice at growing HOPS, I have found this thread to be more annoying than informative.

Gee, thanks for weighing in.

 

[sweetcell]

There are websites like Gardenweb.com if you want to talk about growing clover, catnip, and tomatoes. As a experienced gardener and landscaper, but a novice at growing HOPS, I have found this thread to be more annoying than informative.

not sure about the whole thread, but the opening post sure turned me off. talk about self-righteous - as if there was only one way to grow hops... ugh.

 

[badbrew]

not sure about the whole thread, but the opening post sure turned me off. talk about self-righteous - as if there was only one way to grow hops... ugh.

That was kinda of my point as well. Do anything you want to with gardening and brewing that is legal and doesn't involve huge amounts of waste, but don't lecture me on doing it differently without proof that I'm doing it wrong.

BTW, I guess you clover grows don't play too much golf.

 

[conpewter]

2. Once you have a good layer of compost blended into your soil and your hops are planted, Place a good layer of mulch on top of your soil. Mulch is the key to keeping all the moisture and those nutrients in the soil.

How do I blend in a layer of compost without tilling?

 

[Yooper]

How do I blend in a layer of compost without tilling?

Oh, you turn the garden over by hand. It's more work than tilling, but it's important for the soil organsims that live in the soil to not disrupt their processes. Gently turning over the soil to work in the compost is fine.

Bob has taught me to not even walk on the soil/beds of the garden, as it compacts them. He as long boards for walking on to work in the garden, but never steps in the actual beds.

Some of my friends have huge, huge gardens and actually designed them that way to use a tiller every year. But that's really not good for the garden, particularly if you want to use less pesticides (we use none) and fertilizers (again, we use none except for compost).

 

[TyTanium]

Oh, you turn the garden over by hand. It's more work than tilling, but it's important for the soil organsims that live in the soil to not disrupt their processes. Gently turning over the soil to work in the compost is fine.

This is very interesting. Makes me wonder - do I even need to turn it in? Can I just spread the compost over the top? I assume the first rain would leach it into the soil. That's what I do for my hops - just spread some around the crown and let the rain do the rest.

Bob has taught me to not even walk on the soil/beds of the garden, as it compacts them. He as long boards for walking on to work in the garden, but never steps in the actual beds.

Even more interesting...certainly makes sense. I will adopt this idea, thanks! Does this apply to hops too?

 

[B-Hoppy]

You can just apply as a topdressing but a rough spading helps speed up the incorporation. Kinda lures the worms up to help move it back down into the soil.

Soil compaction is very important to limit, especially with heavy clay soils. The more oxygen you can get down into the root zone, the happier plants you'll have (no matter what you're growing).

 

[Robusto]

And the neighbors are "worse." I'm fighting wild violets on the left and creeping charlie on the right.

You should grow some of that creeping charlie your self- BYO Magazine just did an article about other herbs and plants that once were used to bitter beer, and creeping Charlie was one of them…

 

[TyTanium]

You should grow some of that creeping charlie your self- BYO Magazine just did an article about other herbs and plants that once were used to bitter beer, and creeping Charlie was one of them…

Haha, yeah, I laughed pretty hard when I saw that! I have no shortage. But I'm not putting that stuff anywhere near my beer.

 

[onipar]

The whole concept of a uniform, homogenous lawn strikes me as odd - where else in nature do you have something like that?

I'd rather have a diverse, healthy vibrant lawn that requires less maintenance and resources that is every bit as beautiful and functional as anything else.

I'm with you on that one. I always thought the concept of lawns was ridiculous. But then, I'm also a complete wacko! :cross: :rockin:

 

[conpewter]

Thanks for the heads up on creeping charlie, gonna have to do a brew with that now, I have plenty at my new house (lots of shade seems to promote it)