If my final gravity finishes too high, 1.030, can I pitch a better attenuating yeast?

[n3lson1]

Hey everyone, I brewed a Baltic Porter, my mash usually hits about 62% efficiency. To avoid getting a Baltic Porter at about 7%, I added some DME during the boil, hitting 1.101 og, (awesome!) I used Wyeast2112, based on the average attenuation of 2112, it will leave with a Final Gravity of 1.030, way too high.
Can I purchase high gravity yeast, when fermentation slows to help eat more sugars and lower my final gravity? Will this new yeast out compete the clean flavors of 2112, and give me an estery, phenolic odd Baltic Porter?

 

[bigdawg86]

I had similar problem with a 1.135 OG stout... it finished at 1.042. I pitched a starter of TYB Dry Belgian Ale and has been bubbling the last 14 days... Finally slowing to about a bubble a minute.

 

[SouthPhillyBr3w3r]

What is your mash temp, pitch rate, or aeration/oxygenation procedure? A high mash temp can lead to a lot of unfermentable dextrins, which will raise FG, but not usually that much. Under-aerated wort or underpitched yeast can also have this effect. I have had a lot of success pitching another (well aerated well grown) yeast starter into the secondary fermenter to finish fermentation if it gets stuck. Alternately, wait a few days and take another reading. If the gravity drops even a little after a couple days, just let it ride.

CHEERS!

 

[MaxStout]

If you repitch you could try something neutral, like CBC-1. High floc, high alc tolerance, and 77% attenuation.

 

[ESBrewer]

I wouldn't necessarily call it a problem, I think it's the expected behavior of beer during fermentation. According to Beer Judge Certification Program guidelines Baltic porters have OG1.060-1.090. If you start way higher, expect to end up higher. OG 1.1 means that there are 80-90g/liter extra sugary compounds when compared to a typical Baltic Porter. Pitching more attenuative yeast may ferment some more but it's not a standard practise when brewing these beers. An easy fix that would give you a Baltic Porter would be diluting the wort, before pitching any yeast, with boiled (and cooled down) water until OG is low enough to bring your expected fg to the level you are looking for.

 

[dmtaylor]

I agree with ESBrewer that it's not necessarily a problem. You could add a strong yeast starter of US-05 if you're certain you want to bring it down, that yeast is a beast and will ferment it down to 1.020 but only if you pitch a lot of it that is already actively fermenting.

 

[Calder]

You want a high attenuating yeast, not a high alcohol yeast ..... Yes, it will need to tolerate high alcohol too. A high alcohol yeast may only have a 75% attenuation, which may not get you where you want.

I like dry beers. When I brew a Barley Wine, I want it to finish 1.010 - 1.015. That is still somewhat sweet.

If you want to bring down the FG of a BW (or similar), I would highly recommend 3711 (or similar). Once your primary yeast is done, make a 2 liter starter with 3711 and pitch it when active, and see what happens. If it doesn't pull down the FG, you have no more fermentable sugars; the yeast is a beast. Aerate the starter to grow the yeast, but do NOT aerate the wort/beer you add it too. Basically maximize the cells in the starter, but do not expect any reproduction in the main batch, so as to minimize potential for oxidation.

I am not a fan of 3711 as a Belgian/Saison yeast; I think there are far better ones around. But I keep some around to help finish high gravity beers I want to finish low. I make the starter a little bigger than I need and save some in a half pint mason jar for future use.

Adding 3711 or other yeast as a finishing yeast will have minimal affect the flavor of the beer. Most of the yeast flavor has already been set with the primary yeast.

 

[n3lson1]

I had similar problem with a 1.135 OG stout... it finished at 1.042. I pitched a starter of TYB Dry Belgian Ale and has been bubbling the last 14 days... Finally slowing to about a bubble a minute.

Do you expect to get a strong phenolic flavor from the Belgian yeast? Or do you expect the phenols to be in the background?

 

[n3lson1]

What is your mash temp, pitch rate, or aeration/oxygenation procedure? A high mash temp can lead to a lot of unfermentable dextrins, which will raise FG, but not usually that much. Under-aerated wort or underpitched yeast can also have this effect. I have had a lot of success pitching another (well aerated well grown) yeast starter into the secondary fermenter to finish fermentation if it gets stuck. Alternately, wait a few days and take another reading. If the gravity drops even a little after a couple days, just let it ride.

CHEERS!

Mash temp was 155, I pitched the baltic porter onto the yeast cake of a cali common using the same 2112 yeast and pitched a new package of 2112, my aerating technique was pouring the wort threw a santized strainer into the fermentor.

 

[n3lson1]

If you repitch you could try something neutral, like CBC-1. High floc, high alc tolerance, and 77% attenuation.

I have never used cbc1, I will certainly keep that in mind!

 

[n3lson1]

I wouldn't necessarily call it a problem, I think it's the expected behavior of beer during fermentation. According to Beer Judge Certification Program guidelines Baltic porters have OG1.060-1.090. If you start way higher, expect to end up higher. OG 1.1 means that there are 80-90g/liter extra sugary compounds when compared to a typical Baltic Porter. Pitching more attenuative yeast may ferment some more but it's not a standard practise when brewing these beers. An easy fix that would give you a Baltic Porter would be diluting the wort, before pitching any yeast, with boiled (and cooled down) water until OG is low enough to bring your expected fg to the level you are looking for.

I don't know why I didn't think of that...awesome thought for the future.

 

[n3lson1]

You want a high attenuating yeast, not a high alcohol yeast ..... Yes, it will need to tolerate high alcohol too. A high alcohol yeast may only have a 75% attenuation, which may not get you where you want.

I like dry beers. When I brew a Barley Wine, I want it to finish 1.010 - 1.015. That is still somewhat sweet.

If you want to bring down the FG of a BW (or similar), I would highly recommend 3711 (or similar). Once your primary yeast is done, make a 2 liter starter with 3711 and pitch it when active, and see what happens. If it doesn't pull down the FG, you have no more fermentable sugars; the yeast is a beast. Aerate the starter to grow the yeast, but do NOT aerate the wort/beer you add it too. Basically maximize the cells in the starter, but do not expect any reproduction in the main batch, so as to minimize potential for oxidation.

I am not a fan of 3711 as a Belgian/Saison yeast; I think there are far better ones around. But I keep some around to help finish high gravity beers I want to finish low. I make the starter a little bigger than I need and save some in a half pint mason jar for future use.

Adding 3711 or other yeast as a finishing yeast will have minimal affect the flavor of the beer. Most of the yeast flavor has already been set with the primary yeast.

Awesome! I had a bunch of yeasts in mind but certainly didn't want to overpower the clean properties of a 2112 yeast. Thank you!!!

 

[secondbase]

Between that OG and mash temp, I'd say it's probably done. I don't think pitching another yeast at this point will make it drop much further. Someone mentioned 3711 and I don't know if I'd agree unless you're looking for an estery/spicy belgian character in your beer. FWIW, 1.030 is not unheard of for a FG on a beer that big. That's where a barleywine or imperial stout will end up. If you were looking for a more fermentable wort, mashing around 148 for 90 minutes would have gotten you down around 1.020. RDWHAHB

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Do you expect to get a strong phenolic flavor from the Belgian yeast? Or do you expect the phenols to be in the background?

Dry Belgian loses most of its Belgian character at higher abv IME. Keeping the abv down with that yeast is hard though so keep in mind that you might have to dilute.

 

[SouthPhillyBr3w3r]

Mash temp was 155, I pitched the baltic porter onto the yeast cake of a cali common using the same 2112 yeast and pitched a new package of 2112, my aerating technique was pouring the wort threw a santized strainer into the fermentor.

Not sure whether this is the cause, some more qualified individuals will most assuredly correct me if I am wrong, but a mash temp of 155'F will favor alpha amylase and lead to a higher concentration of less-fermentable dextrins. This could be causing the residual gravity. When I make English Milds, I usually use a higher mash temp to allow for these dextrins to remain, which contributes residual sweetness and body. For higher gravity beers, which place some strain on most yeast, I do a mash around 148'F, at which point the beta-amylase is more active and will create simpler sugars which can be more easily processed by the yeast. In my mind, the easier I can make it for the yeast, the more likely they are to live up to the challenge of making a 9-10% ABV brew. The little buggers are resilient, but I try to give them whatever help I can! Hope this helps!

[EDIT: Just saw Secondbase's post to the same effect above. Sorry to be redundant.]

 

[thehaze]

For a Baltic Porter, which in itself is a very complex beer with lots of different specialty malts, I would mash low. Like 149F/65C and use some sugar in the boil.

A lager yeast is to be preferred, seeing that a traditional Baltic Porter is fermented with lager yeast, but you can definately use a high gravity ale yeast. At this point, you could easily pitch some ale yeast to help the attenuation, as it will probably not influence the final beer in terms of aromas and flavours.

But a 1.030 FG is not a bad thing. There are many examples of " dark " ales finishing at this level and still being awesome.

 

[n3lson1]

Between that OG and mash temp, I'd say it's probably done. I don't think pitching another yeast at this point will make it drop much further. Someone mentioned 3711 and I don't know if I'd agree unless you're looking for an estery/spicy belgian character in your beer. FWIW, 1.030 is not unheard of for a FG on a beer that big. That's where a barleywine or imperial stout will end up. If you were looking for a more fermentable wort, mashing around 148 for 90 minutes would have gotten you down around 1.020. RDWHAHB

Normally, I enjoy my beers with a hint of sweetness to them but feel 1.030 would be a bit high imo. Also, I feel porters should be a bit thinner. Those two factors want me too drop the FG a bit more. I have yet to transfer, as I usually like to relax and have a homebrew! Cheers thank you for your response!!

 

[n3lson1]

Normally, I enjoy my beers with a hint of sweetness to them but feel 1.030 would be a bit high imo. Also, I feel porters should be a bit thinner. Those two factors want me too drop the FG a bit more. I have yet to transfer, as I usually like to relax and have a homebrew! Cheers thank you for your response!!

Also my mis calculation on the DME, kept me from mashing alot lowerin temperature.

 

[n3lson1]

Update:
Checked the gravity about a month ago, it was 1.035 from 1.101 (63% attenuation) still had some activity, brought it in from the garage since we were having some mega cold weather here in Jersey. Decided today would be the day to transfer to secondary, gravity was 1.024 (75% attenuation with Wyeast 2112), still too sweet, I blame it on the 2.5% special b, added some carb tablets, yeast nutrient, and pitched Wyeast 1056. With 1056's max attenuation at about 75%, I am hoping to get a couple more points out of it, hopefully will minimize the raisin, plum flavor.
Cheers and thank you all for your responses, I will update again when she is all bottled and carbed up!!!

 

[SouthPhillyBr3w3r]

Next time, use ketchup as your base fermentable, dilute with water, and add turbo yeast. It will taste like garbage, but that's prison wine for ya! (works best when fermented in a toilet bowl)

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Actually, at this OG you could pitch 3711 about halfway through fermentation and you'd attenuate nicely. Perhaps an option for next time?