if 90% are extract brewing. why the sudden rush to all grain ?

[mb82]

I made the switch to BIAB AG because I wanted to have more control and well more challenge. I made good beer with extract. I am bottling my first AG beer tomorrow so I won't comment that I make good beer with AG.
A good brewing buddy of mine has been doing extract brewing for 20+ years and has no interest in changing that. He makes some great beer, so long as he doesn't freeze the keg.

Kinda funny off topic though I have never had a dumper beer before, till my last extract brew. I am giving it a few more weeks to get better but I am not holding high hopes. Thinking the garden will enjoy 48 vanilla porters pored out onto it. Actually with how bad it is, the beer might kill the plants.

 

[TyTanium]

This discussion will go on until the end of time.

There's a line of advice out there that always makes me cringe, has no meaning and is a complete cop out. But alas! in this discussion I have found a use for it:
"Do what works for you" and don't worry about the rest. Have enough pride in your craft to not put up with anything less. Your time, your process, your beer. "bout all there is to it.

 

[JordanThomas]

I'm still a little unclear as to where the OP is getting his/her information, and why the tone of the post was so negative. I'm going to cut him some slack and assume he had a bad experience with an all-grain brewer when discussing extract.

Personally, no one "pushed" me into all-grain. It was my goal from the beginning. The reasons were many of those already listed, and specifically:

-Fun
-Control
-Cost
-Science!
-Legos made me do it
-Etc.

And, the guys and gals at my local homebrew shop (Siciliano's, yea!) never once belittled me for buying Blue Moon at the ripe age of 21 and asking for more suggestions like it, as I loved it. I still talk to them on a regular basis and credit them for peaking my curiosity and even helping me decide what was completely necessary when setting up my all-grain equipment.

 

[JohanMk1]

It sucks when people are dicks but you did say it was a club designated for AG. Would you expect them to change the topic of conversation to extract just for you?

First I went to learn about AG.

Second, as an outsider I was made to feel unwelcome and left.

 

[unionrdr]

I'm concidering PM,but stil do extract. But by my epitaph,I recombine different extracts,hops,& the like to come up with my versions of various beers. And with even more extracts available lately,I can do even more of these. Wanna branch out into German & some others.
That said,I do think there are those that go AG for the same reasons some go to kegging. They wanna be part of the "cool" crowd feeling they'll be more excepted as real brewers. This goes along with all the "beer kool-aid" remarks. Small minded folks who think more about making it to the percieved top shelf,rather than perfecting their craft with whatever meathod they choose.
Like they say,science without concience is treason to science. Or,to thyself be true. Don't lie to yourself thinking,you've got to do it this way with that stuff,or I'm just a poser. That's wrong. Just do what you like & progress from there. As you get into different beers you'll need different bits of ingredients that may nessesitate the use of some grains,or different bit of the process. You never know where this path will lead or when.

 

[ludomonster]

+1 to everything said above. Almost thought someone was trolling when I read the OP. More control and cheaper batches was a no-brainer for me. Average extract batches before cost me $40-60. With AG I have brewed 5 gal batches as cheap as $10.

Most importantly, my beer GOT BETTER when I switched to AG. That's really all that mattered to me.

Oh, and for the most part BJCP judges are usually, well, never mind.

$10 is very low. If you paid $2.50 for yeast and $1.00 for an ounce of hops, I could see you brewing for $10. But I can easily spend $6-$8 on hops for a single recipe (that might not even be an IPA).

 

[emjay]

$10 is very low. If you paid $2.50 for yeast and $1.00 for an ounce of hops, I could see you brewing for $10. But I can easily spend $6-$8 on hops for a single recipe (that might not even be an IPA).

Reuse yeast, bulk grain and bulk hops, and I can brew some styles for under $5.

 

[kh54s10]

First I went to learn about AG.

Second, as an outsider I was made to feel unwelcome and left.

I've never been to a club but in my experience at my homebrew shops everyone is more than willing to help anyone at any level of experience.

How did you approach them? Did you tell them that you were interested in learning about AG? I would be really surprised that they would not be perfectly willing to give advice.

 

[evrose]

First I went to learn about AG.

Second, as an outsider I was made to feel unwelcome and left.

I'm going with one of two hypothesis:

1. They are jerks to everyone who isn't part of the group, regardless of what kind of brewing you do.

2. The feeling was unintended and simply a misunderstanding. (In other words, it's in your head.)

I HIGHLY doubt that they tried to ostracize you simply because you make beer using extract. It's possible, but one of the above points is far more likely.

 

[tellico1]

I like Good Beer no matter how it is made

 

[Homercidal]

$10 is very low. If you paid $2.50 for yeast and $1.00 for an ounce of hops, I could see you brewing for $10. But I can easily spend $6-$8 on hops for a single recipe (that might not even be an IPA).

$10 is low. Most of my batches run $15-20.

I can easily do a $10 batch for a fairly light summer beer. Those that need lots specialty grain and hops run into the $15-20 range if I don't reuse yeast or harvest from bottles of Bells beer.

 

[Zuljin]

Sorry for the off topic, but a what and what is it normally used for and what does it get used for in brewing?

Making that list reminded me of Weird Al Yankovic - Hardware Store. It's in the song.

 

[wormraper]

damn, I'd LOVE to do my brewing in $15 batches (ish)... right now I can do Hefe's for like $26 extract style (re-using yeast). if I can get bulk DME I could see myself doing that but I don't have a stove powerful enough to do a full grain boil or an immersion chiller to chill THAT much wort (now I do the 3 gallon boil 2 gallon ice cold water to drop the temps faster. )

 

[9Frogs]

I do all grain for flexibility and variety. I think you will find most of the "Oh, I want to make that!" recipies (especially here) will be all grain. Yes, it's cheaper, too; I can do a fairly light, simple beer for around 20 bucks or so. I do, however, still like extract for time savings. In preparation for a recent party, I made 3 all grain batches, and 2 extract. What I loved about the extract ones were less time spent ( I could brew 2 in the time I did 1 all grain!), and easier clean up, just one pot with no mash tun to clean. I wanted to showcase to people what was possible with all grain, but also what was possible with a simple Northern Brewer kit. Mostly, I wanted to interest people in brewing, and get them addicted.....I mean interested...... In the end, do what works for you. If you enjoy your product, and mostly, have fun doing it, then it's the right thing to do. Enjoy!

 

[davekippen]

I couldnt find a Poll for this, so I started one...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/poll-what-method-do-you-brew-344339/

Use the 80/20 rule. What do you do MOST of the time...

 

[emjay]

I couldnt find a Poll for this, so I started one...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/poll-what-method-do-you-brew-344339/

Use the 80/20 rule. What do you do MOST of the time...

Again, people are completely missing the point. The masses of casual "homebrewers" sticking with Mr. Beer and other prehopped kits (eg Coopers) are NOT going to be well-represented on this site. A poll on HBT is NOT going to dispel the 90% figure.

And this is also largely why the 90% figure probably seems so ridiculous to people. They're used to homebrew clubs, sites like HBT, etc, and see that as a microcosm of the homebrewing community. What that neglects to take into account is that the "casual" brewers mentioned above generally don't seek out such communities. Like it or not, in terms of actual PEOPLE, homebrewers like us are the *minority*. So a poll on HBT will reflect a MASSIVE bias... If one is setting out to get a meaningful idea of the wider homebrewing community in general, the methodology could hardly be any poorer.

 

[Yooper]

What grains can you not use as an extract brewer? I've used everything from Victory to flaked maize, oats to wheat and stuff inbetween. As long as I account for sugar conversion with DME, won't I getc the same colors and flavors without mashing?

No, not really. I think you'll get flavor and color from victory malt, but not oats. With some grains, when you steep them, you'll just get starch.

But the tricky part is that some malts (like wheat) can self-convert so if you hold them in a prescribed amount of water for a prescribed amount of time at a certain temperature, you'll get conversion. So in reality, anything like Munich malt or wheat malt would be a partial mash if certain steps were followed.

 

[emjay]

There's definitely some styles that just can't be done properly with the extracts currently on the market, even with steeping.

 

[BronxBrew]

There's definitely some styles that just can't be done properly with the extracts currently on the market, even with steeping.

Thats really what my post was pointing at. It wasn't meant as a dig to AG or PM brewers. Its nice to see some "PRO" kits in extract form.

Was hanging out at my LHBS the other day. It seemed like almost everyone who came in that bought a brew kit. It was always extract. I expected this because of NYC. I wonder what the numbers are for the big 3 ? Northern ,Austin and Midwest ?

 

[TheFlyingSparge]

The AG process allows you to alter recipes without changing ingredients. You are able to unlock the full potential of the grains tapping into a broader range & depth of flavor. It's not just about creating award winning beers, it's also about creating the beer in your imagination. Sometimes just using extract won't get you there. Lastly, AG is a more involved process and therefore provides a more interesting journey for many brewers. Personally I utilize extract, partial & AG mthods depending on what I am trying to achieve.

 

[BronxBrew]

No i get that some guys want to make brewing into a hobby. I understood it when making the post. There isn't much hobby about extract brewing. But it seems like unless your all grain with elaborate setups and Blichmann conicals your looked down on. Happend to me when looking into a Home brewing club. "What method do you use ?" Oh your an extract brewer".....=0/ Even my LHBS asked me "So when are you going all grain ?" Good gods man i only have so much room in a NYC condo. Im an avid golfer and saltwater Kayak fisherman . My SWMBO would toss my glass carboy out the 10 story window if i bought more brew stuff lol.

 

[lakeshorebrewer]

When I started brewing I used extract only and I was really happy with the results. I moved to all grain because of cost and then I began to learn about how much more I could control with a mash involved. Either way you can make some great brew. The really nice about extract is the amount of time you can save on brew day.

 

[emjay]

No i get that some guys want to make brewing into a hobby. I understood it when making the post. There isn't much hobby about extract brewing. But it seems like unless your all grain with elaborate setups and Blichmann conicals your looked down on. Happend to me when looking into a Home brewing club. "What method do you use ?" Oh your an extract brewer".....=0/ Even my LHBS asked me "So when are you going all grain ?" Good gods man i only have so much room in a NYC condo. Im an avid golfer and saltwater Kayak fisherman . My SWMBO would toss my glass carboy out the 10 story window if i bought more brew stuff lol.

Geezus, you make it sound like you're a high school student being peer-pressured into doing drugs.

Just say no! :cross:

 

[Brulosopher]

90% of me doesn't believe that 90% of brewers use extract

The fun in brewing beer, for me, is engaging in the FULL process... grain to glass. I prefer extracting my own sugars, using my own process, with my own recipes. Extract brewing became boring for me.

That said, I couldn't care less what others do. I've had some truly great extract beers. Fine.

 

[logan3825]

Thats really what my post was pointing at. It wasn't meant as a dig to AG or PM brewers. Its nice to see some "PRO" kits in extract form.

Was hanging out at my LHBS the other day. It seemed like almost everyone who came in that bought a brew kit. It was always extract. I expected this because of NYC. I wonder what the numbers are for the big 3 ? Northern ,Austin and Midwest ?

I would imagine most kits bought are extract. I would assume that by the time people are brewing all grain they are making their own recipes in most cases.

 

[troyh]

I asked my LHBS (Seattle) this question and they said about 60% of their customers are extract brewers. Incidentally, 20% of their brewing customers are women.

 

[brycelarson]

Thats really what my post was pointing at. It wasn't meant as a dig to AG or PM brewers. Its nice to see some "PRO" kits in extract form.

Was hanging out at my LHBS the other day. It seemed like almost everyone who came in that bought a brew kit. It was always extract. I expected this because of NYC. I wonder what the numbers are for the big 3 ? Northern ,Austin and Midwest ?

I'm local to Northern and Midwest. Having spent a lot of time in the stores watching people shop it's kinda like a lot of things - those that spend the most time and get the deepest aren't necessarily the major economic driver.

Obviously there are people like me in the store often and spending reasonable amounts of money annually - but then there are huge numbers of people picking up kits or just starting out each year. They may not continue or they may only make a couple of batches a year - but they add up to a huge portion of the industry.

I'll ask next time I'm in the stores and see what they say. I bet they make more money off extract while spending more time on all grain (which from a businiess perspective means they should be pushing extract).

 

[unionrdr]

I make some really good recipes with all extract. Including a Cooper's can as a base. Their Original Series (OS) cans are great bases to work from. I've made an IPA out of the OS draught,Awhiskely ale out of the OS dark ale,& a summer shandy out of the OS lager. With a good process,extract beers can be bloody good.
Now,having said that,phase two is apon us! Money is starting to get tighter since I retired 5 years ago. Can't afford to buy a ton of beer anymore. The extract recipes are costing 30-50 bucks,averaging about 37-40 dollars.
So I went to midwest to look around,& parial mash is coming by the end of this week when I replace some stove heating elements. Their cascade pale ale kit is $23.99,$24.99 with premium dry yeast. All the comments said it's better than SNPA,so we'll see. PM should be easy enough,since it's much like steeping. Albeit with stricter temps & water amounts. So mixing AG with extract will be a good way to see what all the fuss is about with this grain thing.
I suspect many just wanna be part of the cool crowd that brews AG & kegs. Then they too can immedietly point there plastic fingers at others when bottling,etc questions come up. You know who you aaaaarrrrre! You're a no good stinking son of a bwauahuahaaaah wha wha wha...

 

[DPBISME]

So I made one comment but here is another:

My MYLHBS owner,,, former professional brewer,,, brews almost only Extract brews...

Why did I make the leap?

I want to work in a brewery and I learn best by doing... The MATH and techniques I have read about are are only really coming together in my head as I do it....

I did two batches at the same time last weekend to "stretch" myself… when things go wrong I learn… The big thing I learned this weekend,,, something I am sure I knew but forgot was about DMS creation after the boil…..

I need that constant introduction and re-introduction to hammer some of this stuff into my little brain.

 

[neosapien]

No i get that some guys want to make brewing into a hobby. I understood it when making the post. There isn't much hobby about extract brewing. But it seems like unless your all grain with elaborate setups and Blichmann conicals your looked down on. Happend to me when looking into a Home brewing club. "What method do you use ?" Oh your an extract brewer".....=0/ Even my LHBS asked me "So when are you going all grain ?" Good gods man i only have so much room in a NYC condo. Im an avid golfer and saltwater Kayak fisherman . My SWMBO would toss my glass carboy out the 10 story window if i bought more brew stuff lol.

Just for the record, you don't /have/ to use an elaborate setup full of expensive equipment to brew with grains. There's a picture somewhere on here I saw recently of Revvy's system, and it's a lot simpler than I would have guessed. And (correct me if I'm wrong here?) I think Yooper also uses a fairly simple system due to space limitations.

I think my first few AG batches were nothing more than a simple turkey fry bucket, a 5 gallon cooler, and a paint strainer bag.

There's no need for people to get high-and-mighty about the fact that they choose grain over extract though. After all, we are all still just making beer...