Idea for indirect electric heating

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cjp4627

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Well guys, after scorching another batch of beer, I am looking to remove standard HWD 120V 2000W element from my kettle. I know everyone claims that it doesn't happen and so on, but I have proven it can be done and I don't want this to be a thread about how no one else has had problems. I want to discuss an alternative and that is all.

Anyways, to put an end to this problem once and for all, I was doing some research and came up with an idea. I was reading the thread about the externally heated RIMS tube (link here) and it got me thinking. What if we externally heated the entire kettle/mash tun?

I started looked around for a product to do this and came across these silicone sheet heaters from various manufactures. It seems like this would be the perfect solution to ALL scorching issues. You will never have any direct contact between the wort and the heating element. It would essentially simulate heating the pot with a propane burner to some extent (except for the amount of heat you can put in i would imagine).

The heaters are self adhesive and could be adhered right to the outside of any kettle. I would plan on putting a layer of insulation over them to help with efficiency and to keep you from touching the heaters themselves. They can get up to about 300°F.

The biggest limiting factor I can see for this system so far is the low power input possibilities. The watt densities are so low (2.5-10 w/in^2) that it takes a larger surface area to get enough heat in.

Here is a link to the pages with the heaters. http://www.omega.com/Heaters/pdf/SRMU_HEATER.pdf

Do this seem as feasible to everyone else as it does to me?
 
Should work. The large circular element is ~1000 watt. Put that on the bottom and wrap a few rectangular ones (4"x36" ~1400 watt) around the side and insulate it well and you should have a decent kettle. Just expensive compared to water heater elements but you don't have to drill out any holes.
 
I'm not sure those will work, think making coffee with a heating pad. I could see them working to keep a carboy in fermentation range but I don't see them applying enough heat to boil 5 gal of water and heat a pot.
 
I really like these, I am looking to build a new electric setup and am really looking to not have anything in the actual pots mostly because i feel that they would be a pain to clean. also I like that you could stick on a few big ones and a couple small ones with some controls you could have some really fine temp controls. "all on to get to a boil and then just the smaller ones on to keep the boil going" keep this thread updated if you pick some up i would be very interested in your experience
 
I realize they are more expensive but there is something to be said for ease of use. I figure with my corny kegs I will be able to pull off about 2kw of input power and that will closely match what I have now with my regular element. They will be slightly less efficient but I think it will still be very effective, especially with some insulation on the kettle.

I'd really like to increase my input power so that i could boil faster but then I'd need to tie into separate circuits and everything would become that much more complicated.

I am really excited to try this!
 
This is a really cool idea. I have not seen these before. What is their intended industrial purpose?

I have not had any scorching issues with my 2k elements, but there is always a better way...
 
The use is heating industrial fluids. Max operating temperature is 300°F. I think I am going to give it a shot. My only concern is the possibility of firing the elements in an empty kettle and if that will cause any damage to the elements. I plan to call Omega and confirm whether this is a concern or not.
 
Well guys, after scorching another batch of beer, I am looking to remove standard HWD 120V 2000W element from my kettle.
You're scorching your wort because the watt density is too high in a standard element. Period. To dramatically lower the watt density, use a high wattage ultra-low watt density 240V element on your 120V current. A 4500W element will only draw 1/4 the power with half the voltage. An easy, painless solution. Do a search for "Camco 02953".

...came across these silicone sheet heaters from various manufactures... The biggest limiting factor I can see for this system so far is the low power input possibilities. The watt densities are so low (2.5-10 w/in^2) that it takes a larger surface area to get enough heat in.
I agree. Thanks for the link for these. I used similar Heat Blankets on my MLT to maintain the temp until they got too wet (mine were not water resistant).
 
They are WAY more expensive than any other heating method I know of but I suppose it could be done. I considered these for wrapping around my keg mash tun and it was just so expensive based on needing to cover 18" x 54".
 
my keg mash tun... 18" x 54".
You likely don't have 54" because the fittings are in the way. You won't have 18" because there is not that much below the water line unless you have a HUGE grainbill. However, you could use a round one on the bottom too. The round one has re-sparked my interest. I already have a PID dedicated for it. It would be nice to get enough power to do step-mashes.
 
I know it is off topic, but I really don't understand how some people (like you and many pro brewers) have scorching issues and others (like me and many other pro brewers) never have. It has always confused me.
 
I realize how it works. I just can't comprehend the massive difference in results. I use a 2000kW 120VAC high density element in 5g boils, and have never had any scorching issues in over 25ish batches.

Also, if you follow probrewer you will see many brewers with issues with their new electric setups, and many running nearly identical systems with no problems.

Is it water chemistry? Cleaning issues? I just find it odd that some people end up with catastrophic problems, and others have no problems over years of use...
 
I understand that some people have no issues and that's fine. I like the idea of not having to scrub the element and not have to deal with it being in the way in the kettle.

My results haven't been consistent either and that's why I want to change. I have made 3 batches that didn't scorch and 2 that did. I understand why is scorches (too much watt density) but am ready to have a system that works 100% of the time without always having to fear the scorch.

As far as costs go, yes it is considerably more expensive than a water heater element. But I was about to spend $28 on a LWD 2000w 120v element. I will be able to get the same power with lower watt density for about $150. For as much as I have spent on other parts of the system, an extra $120 doesn't seem so bad to eliminate wasting gallons of wort at a time.
 
Did you get any of these.... I am really interested on if they would work well
 
I've been traveling with work quite a bit and haven't been able to order a set yet. I plan to do it within a few weeks though.
 
You're scorching your wort because the watt density is too high in a standard element. Period. To dramatically lower the watt density, use a high wattage ultra-low watt density 240V element on your 120V current. A 4500W element will only draw 1/4 the power with half the voltage. An easy, painless solution. Do a search for "Camco 02953".

I agree that this is the easiest solution. Hell, even adding a second 240V element running at 120V would be cheaper and easier.
 
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