Ice cider without the work

[semibreve42]

Hello all, I've been lurking here for a while but I think it's time for a post...

There have been several posts about ice cider here, both about making it the traditional way (freezing apple cider to concentrate) and a few posts asking if you could skip the freezing bit and just make it with apple juice concentrate from the supermarket.

A few months ago I decided to try making some the supermarket way, here was my method and (partial) result.

I made a one gallon batch, using Shurfine apple juice concentrate (most if not all apple juice concentrates are the same, they're mostly made in South America, and then they slap different labels on for different companies). If you were not aware, apple juice concentrate is commercially made basically the same way it's made for "pure" ice cider, by freezing the juice and removing the water. They just do it on a much larger scale.

Anyway, the apple juice concentrate as it comes in the can is much too sugary, my hygrometer doesn't have a scale anywhere near where it was floating. I cut it down with water until I had an O.G. of ~1.130 (my hygrometer didn't go above 1.15, so I was estimating. I bought one with a more appropriate scale for next time). I added pectic enzyme, yeast nutrient and Cotes des Blanc yeast, and it fermented for about 8 days, at which point the gravity reading was 1.040. I added potassium sulfate and cold crashed it, and racked it off the lees.

Then I set it in my cellar (I'm lucky enough to own a 19th century farmhouse with a stone cellar that keeps between 55-60F throughout the year) and left it alone for a month, before bottling in some 375 and 750ml bottles I had, before leaving it some more.

It's been over two months now, and we've had two of the bottles. It's still just a bit young tasting, but the flavor is excellent. It has a very slightly thicker consistency then your regular wine or cider, and the sweetness is set off by the acidity. It's definitely a dessert drink though, more for sipping then throwing back.

The results came out tasting similar enough to professional ice ciders (especially Eden Ice from Vermont) that I think I will continue using concentrated apple juice rather than the hassle of manually freezing. If there's a difference, it's subtle enough not to matter. Plus, seeing how Eden Ice goes for ~25$ for 375ml, and I can get enough concentrated apple juice to make a gallon for $15-20 bucks, I can make $300 dollars of ice cider for $20!

My only change next time will be to wait another month before bottling, with one extra rack in between. The cider cleared nicely after a month in the bottle, but left a bunch of sediment. Better to leave that in the carboy.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I'm interested to see comments from someone who has done with both ways. In particular comparisons in cost, time, taste, clarity, off flavors, etc.

 

[fuzzy2133]

Op I had the same idea after listening to the recorded AHA Ice Cider presentation by Nathan Williams (2014).

The store bought Tree Top brand frozen concentrate once thawed was beyond what my refractometer could read (32 brix max). No big surprise there.
I took a 3ml sample and diluted it with 3ml water and got 22 brix so 44 brix (1.210sg) should be what the thawed concentrate measures.

I am making a 1 gallon batch with 5; 12oz containers of frozen concentrate then topped off to 1 gallon with store bought apple juice.
If the Beer Smith dilution tool is correct once it is all thawed and mixed I should have 1 gallon of 31 brix (1.139sg) must ready for some yeast.

 

[MindenMan]

I decided to remove this post.

 

[Kashue]

I've done this using about half concentrate and half juice in a 1 gallon batch. Then I went straight ahead and freeze-distilled it into applejack. It was AMAZING, a potent dessert liquor that tasted like pie a bit.

My mother in law got a bottle, but, believing it to be ordinary cider, used it to wash down a couple ambien one late night- she slept right through work the next day.

 

[fuzzy2133]

I don't remember where the post is, but someone else used the same basic recipe, and got bad results, I'll find the post and link it later today. I would like to know how you got such great results using such a high O.G.

In the presentation I linked to Nathan did mention how he got 1 batch that did not hit the minimum OG of 30 brix. That batch turned out bland and watery.

I got mine in primary but missed my target and only got to 29.2 brix somehow. Going to ferment it and stop the fermentation as planned to see if the work might be worth doing it again scaled up to 3 gallons.

 

[MindenMan]

I really like apple jack, and I make it as often as gallon jugs of apple juice or cider go on sale. When I started making a/j, I didn't keep good records, and a batch from last September I recently found, is amazingly smooth and it doesn't have the alcohol bite at all. Damn, I wish there was more than one 8oz bottle left... I have other bottles of a/j at different ages and juice blends stashed, and seeing as how aging really improves the flavor and mouth feel, I will likely make a really high gravity batch to lay down until my Daughters 21st birthday comes. I have never put more than two cans of concentrate into a gallon jug topped off with cider, but I will have to try the higher gravity versions. I have left the ciders I have made a tiny bit sweet to balance out the alcohol burn when freeze concentrated. I could use my hydrometer to check the F.G., but I haven't used it so far. I guess I will have to start using it, to keep track of which F.G. ciders I prefer to drink young, and which ones I prefer to drink with aging

 

[fuzzy2133]

I find it interesting how the foam on top comes and goes.

 

[jsiddall]

FWIW I too am trying a [very] small batch of "easy" ice cider.

Mine is pure concentrate with only enough extra water added to dissolve the nutrient and energizer. Started off at a calculated 1.16 SG (36 °Bx) and after a few days is down to 1.13.

A small taste indicates it is already lacking the flavor density of commercial ice ciders so this looks like it may end as "an interesting experiment". Very early still though so maybe some serious age will bring up the flavor.

 

[dlester]

I ice cider often. However, I don't mind icing large volumes of watery cider since I have a good freezer. I also make a run to the apple orchards east of Los Angeles annually for apple juice to make cider and ice-cider.

I later took the ice cider concept, made an Eise Beer and got it all the way up to 30% abv. I fractionally froze the beer three times using dry ice, and, threw out the syrup on the first run, which gave me a dry tasting beer that I would say tastes better than Bourbon. I am in the process of making it again. I usually end up with 15% to 20% of the original volume.

Cheers,

 

[jsiddall]

My experiment fermenting apple juice concentrate continues to progress... slowly. SG is now 1.082 but it has dropped very little in the past week so I think it may be about done. Still, that works out to an ABV of 11.2% which is decent. Not clear yet though so I will let it sit for longer.

Taste has improved. Notably sweet but with some sourness on the finish to cut through it a bit. Not bad really.

 

[dlester]

FWIW I too am trying a [very] small batch of "easy" ice cider.

Mine is pure concentrate with only enough extra water added to dissolve the nutrient and energizer. Started off at a calculated 1.16 SG (36 °Bx) and after a few days is down to 1.13.

A small taste indicates it is already lacking the flavor density of commercial ice ciders so this looks like it may end as "an interesting experiment". Very early still though so maybe some serious age will bring up the flavor.

Jsiddall, if you can get near your target FG, you can back sweeten it with apple juice, sugar, brown sugar or honey.

Don't worry be happy,

 

[jsiddall]

Final update: this finished at 1.072 meaning an ABV of 12%. I expected EC-1118 would take it to 18% or so and I don't have a good explanation for why it stalled. Regardless, it is pretty close to where I was hoping it would end so I sulfited and sorbated it, cleared it with Sparkolloid and bottled. It is crystal clear (the bottle texture makes it look cloudy) and smells and tastes great. It is surprisingly good even if it is lacking some flavor density and complexity of typical commercial examples. Given it is just 40 days old it definitely has some time to improve.

 

[TheNewGuy2]

So ec1118 in this case shouldn't strip the cider to nothing?

 

[MarkKF]

Would EC-1118 stall at 12%? Probably not so temperature.

What was the juice temp. when it stopped fermenting? Looks great!

 

[jsiddall]

Nope, temperature was a constant 20 C (68 F). Although I would have liked it to go down closer to 1.05 I am happy with it as is. Very sweet and flavorful, which is hard to complain about.

About the only thing I can think of is perhaps the residual sanitizing liquid on the surface of the hydrometer and thief were enough over time to sulfite the juice to the extent that it harmed the yeast. In a large batch the residual sanitizer volume is trivial but I was fermenting in a 750 ml champagne bottle so even a few ml of sanitizer contains a significant amount of sulfites.

I plan on making a bigger batch next so I will post the results of that. Perhaps it will ferment drier.

 

[MarkKF]

Im still a bit confused. You state your finish Gravity was 1.07 but you hoped for 1.05. My cider starting Gravity is closer to those two. What was your starting gravity?

If u have that much sugar left did u kill the yeast? Because it can come back and go wild.

 

[jsiddall]

Im still a bit confused. You state your finish Gravity was 1.07 but you hoped for 1.05. My cider starting Gravity is closer to those two. What was your starting gravity?

If u have that much sugar left did u kill the yeast? Because it can come back and go wild.

See my post #6 above. My initial SG was 1.16. Keep in mind this thread is about making ice cider with juice concentrate.

 

[phug]

I have had similar things happen with overly sweet must and ec1118. I think when we're doing that we really have to pull from the winemakers handbook, because it's not cider anymore.

Generally the winemakers (Yooper, correct me if I'm wrong) make sure that the must gets lots of oxygen exposure at the begginning and regular aeration to get the necessary amount of yeast growth, and be able to grow enough to take the must all the way down.

 

[Skrazybrews]

I'm making a shot at an iced cider. I used 5 cans of frozen concentrate and topped with store brought cider. I'm using WLP500. I'll have to check my notes for the OG. I pulled a sample to check it (I'm shooting to get it to the 10-12% range). It had a bit further to go, but it tasted amazing. I'll keep you updated if anyone is interested.

 

[Bearclaw215]

Nope, temperature was a constant 20 C (68 F). Although I would have liked it to go down closer to 1.05 I am happy with it as is. Very sweet and flavorful, which is hard to complain about.

About the only thing I can think of is perhaps the residual sanitizing liquid on the surface of the hydrometer and thief were enough over time to sulfite the juice to the extent that it harmed the yeast. In a large batch the residual sanitizer volume is trivial but I was fermenting in a 750 ml champagne bottle so even a few ml of sanitizer contains a significant amount of sulfites.

I plan on making a bigger batch next so I will post the results of that. Perhaps it will ferment drier.

Id read a high starting gravity can cause lower attenuation and to hit that 18% it'd be better to step the sugar additions, in this case start with something like juice gravity 1.050ish and add more concentrate as fermentation slows. Once the yeast poop out just sweeten to where you want with more concentrate.

 

[jsiddall]

I started another 1 gal batch of this 5 days ago with the same initial SG of 1.16 and it is now at 1.092. I will post back how low it gets.

 

[oreilleyt]

Hello all, I've been lurking here for a while but I think it's time for a post...



There have been several posts about ice cider here, both about making it the traditional way (freezing apple cider to concentrate) and a few posts asking if you could skip the freezing bit and just make it with apple juice concentrate from the supermarket.



A few months ago I decided to try making some the supermarket way, here was my method and (partial) result.



I made a one gallon batch, using Shurfine apple juice concentrate (most if not all apple juice concentrates are the same, they're mostly made in South America, and then they slap different labels on for different companies). If you were not aware, apple juice concentrate is commercially made basically the same way it's made for "pure" ice cider, by freezing the juice and removing the water. They just do it on a much larger scale.



Anyway, the apple juice concentrate as it comes in the can is much too sugary, my hygrometer doesn't have a scale anywhere near where it was floating. I cut it down with water until I had an O.G. of ~1.130 (my hygrometer didn't go above 1.15, so I was estimating. I bought one with a more appropriate scale for next time). I added pectic enzyme, yeast nutrient and Cotes des Blanc yeast, and it fermented for about 8 days, at which point the gravity reading was 1.040. I added potassium sulfate and cold crashed it, and racked it off the lees.



Then I set it in my cellar (I'm lucky enough to own a 19th century farmhouse with a stone cellar that keeps between 55-60F throughout the year) and left it alone for a month, before bottling in some 375 and 750ml bottles I had, before leaving it some more.



It's been over two months now, and we've had two of the bottles. It's still just a bit young tasting, but the flavor is excellent. It has a very slightly thicker consistency then your regular wine or cider, and the sweetness is set off by the acidity. It's definitely a dessert drink though, more for sipping then throwing back.



The results came out tasting similar enough to professional ice ciders (especially Eden Ice from Vermont) that I think I will continue using concentrated apple juice rather than the hassle of manually freezing. If there's a difference, it's subtle enough not to matter. Plus, seeing how Eden Ice goes for ~25$ for 375ml, and I can get enough concentrated apple juice to make a gallon for $15-20 bucks, I can make $300 dollars of ice cider for $20!



My only change next time will be to wait another month before bottling, with one extra rack in between. The cider cleared nicely after a month in the bottle, but left a bunch of sediment. Better to leave that in the carboy.

How long do you usually cold crash for?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jsiddall]

Quick update: looks like the second batch has ended up at 1.074 (12.9% ABV) which is virtually identical to the first batch. For whatever reason EC-1118 seems to poop out around 12-13% in FAJC even though its alcohol tolerance is much higher.

 

[phug]

I had a similar experience and wondered if I had not sufficiently aerated at the beginning on fermentation


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[pricelessbrewing]

You could try staggering nutrients too like the mead makes do.

 

[fuzzy2133]

Quick update: looks like the second batch has ended up at 1.074 (12.9% ABV) which is virtually identical to the first batch. For whatever reason EC-1118 seems to poop out around 12-13% in FAJC even though its alcohol tolerance is much higher.

Good info. I was going to do the next batch by just adding the FAJC until the yeast can't go any further.

 

[MindenMan]

I agree with priceless... staggered nutrients could probably help. I didn't see you added nutrients in the beginning, maybe I missed it. I add one can of FAJC to1 gallon minus 16oz, let it ferment, remove 12 oz, add another FAJC , ferment, add FAJC and once more and then into the freezer.

 

[jsiddall]

I agree with priceless... staggered nutrients could probably help. I didn't see you added nutrients in the beginning, maybe I missed it. I add one can of FAJC to1 gallon minus 16oz, let it ferment, remove 12 oz, add another FAJC , ferment, add FAJC and once more and then into the freezer.

In the latest batch I started with nutrient and energizer then added some more nutrient part way through the ferment. I aerated at the beginning, but not after that. I also added slightly more FAJC once the SG dropped to about 1.08 mainly to top-up the carboy.

I expected all that should have made the yeast happy. There were no farts or anything else strange looking. I dunno. Perhaps another yeast like K1V-1118 would be happier in apples.

Last year I made an ice wine from a kit and there were no extra nutrients added (there may have been some in the juice initially) and the initial SG was exactly the same and it only fermented to 1.064.

I think Bearclaw215 has it right. It seems there is something about the combination of increasing alcohol in the presence of a lot of remaining sugar that the yeast has a hard time with. To get the ABV up (and the final SG down) may require starting with plain juice (SG of perhaps 1.04) and then adding the FAJC in regular doses.

Truthfully I really don't want to take it much further anyway but next time (which won't be for a while) I may try starting with an apple juice base then step feeding the FAJC until I have the desired ABV (accounting for the dilution from backsweetening). Then let it ferment dry, then sulfite/sorbate and backsweeten to the desired final sugar content with more FAJC.

If I do I will be curious to see if the net result is less flavorful in addition to being less sweet. Starting with plain apple juice would certainly reduce the flavor concentration, but adding pure FAJC after fermentation ends may offset that compared to having the FAJC in the ferment all along.

 

[MindenMan]

Last night I purchased two, 1 gallon jugs of Musselmans cider; not filtered, or from concentrate. I also purchased 5 cans of plain FAJC, one can of Apple-Cherry FJC, and one can of Apple Raspberry FJC. In the past, I have usually put the "flavored" concentrate can in first. This time I am staggering the addition of the three cans each. The "extra" plain can is for "just in case". I will keep you guys posted as fermentation goes forward. I don't usually hydro along the way as to not waste my hardened cider, but this time I will so I have an accurate record step by step. I use Red Star Pasteur Red Yeast for all my cider of late. It doesn't strip out the fruit flavor, at least not noticeably. At the end of fermentation, there is no doubt the cider is apple, and I don't get any harsh alcohol flavors even after freeze concentrating. Yes, it is alcohol warm, but no off flavors of any kind.